Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

JOHNFAK

Injector Install

Recommended Posts

JOHNFAK

Hey guys - replaced my injectors 1x with ISX holding my hand :) (where's the "flower" icon :lmao2:) anyway Thinking of getting rid of my RV275's and going to +75 => +100HP ...... together with hx35/hx40 hybrid. That with my methanol/water kit should bring right at 275->425 HP which is as far I as think I should go without new headstuds/bigger turbo. So thinking a couple things. (1) What you think between full injector replacement or just nozzles ?? (2) Think of these http://www.cumminsperformanceparts.com/cpp-injectors.html + 100HP and http://www.dieselautopower.com/product_p/35-fslash-40%20turbo%20budget.htm or something else in some price point ? I haven';t seen anything and guys reckon they are on par with DDP. (3) ok main part/reason of this thread. http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/injectors/injectors.htm Step 10 of INSTALL. When retorqing the fuel line - what tool do you use as you can't use a normal socket etc due to the line ??? I think ISX and I just guestimated this part ......is there something that can be made or bought to go with the torque wrench ?? (4) ON torque wrenches was going to get these. One for inch pounds and one for ft pounds. The foot pound one acts as a calibrator also. Seem ok ?? INCHPOUNDS http://www.amazon.com/Michigan-Industrial-Tools-Torque-Wrench/dp/B000H43VU0/ref=sr_1_14?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1290725074&sr=1-14 FOOTPOUNDS http://www.amazon.com/Alltrade-940759-Powerbuilt-Digital-Adaptor/dp/B0031QPJZG/ref=sr_1_11?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1290725074&sr=1-11 THANKS :thumbup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mopar1973Man

Hey guys - replaced my injectors 1x with ISX holding my hand :) (where's the "flower" icon :lmao2:)

anyway

Thinking of getting rid of my RV275's and going to +75 => +100HP ...... together with hx35/hx40 hybrid.

That with my methanol/water kit should bring right at 275->425 HP which is as far I as think I should go without new headstuds/bigger turbo.

So thinking a couple things.

(1) What you think between full injector replacement or just nozzles ??

Personally I prefer full injectors because with nozzles its suggested to pop test the injectors before installing.

(2) Think of these

http://www.cumminsperformanceparts.com/cpp-injectors.html + 100HP

and

http://www.dieselautopower.com/product_p/35-fslash-40%20turbo%20budget.htm

Did you get your EGT's down some with the water/meth?

or something else in some price point ? I haven';t seen anything and guys reckon they are on par with DDP.

(3) ok main part/reason of this thread.

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/injectors/injectors.htm

Step 10 of INSTALL. When retorqing the fuel line - what tool do you use as you can't use a normal socket etc due to the line ??? I think ISX and I just guestimated this part ......is there something that can be made or bought to go with the torque wrench ??

Crows foot should work to get them tighten with a torque wrench. But like ISX I guess at the tension as well.

(4)

ON torque wrenches was going to get these. One for inch pounds and one for ft pounds. The foot pound one acts as a calibrator also. Seem ok ??

INCHPOUNDS

http://www.amazon.com/Michigan-Industrial-Tools-Torque-Wrench/dp/B000H43VU0/ref=sr_1_14?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1290725074&sr=1-14

FOOTPOUNDS

http://www.amazon.com/Alltrade-940759-Powerbuilt-Digital-Adaptor/dp/B0031QPJZG/ref=sr_1_11?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1290725074&sr=1-11

I've got 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2" torque wrenches... The 1/4" is inch/pounds and the other 2 are foot/pounds. Just good ol' cheap harbor freight wrenches... :rolleyes:

THANKS :thumbup2:

Coments in blue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RPM

I just did some Cummins Performance Parts nozzles on some older bodies I had around. By the time I bought the nozzles and had the sticks popped and shimmed back to spec I only saved maybe 75 bucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISX

My dad came home with a set of crows feet after I asked him if he had any that day :lol: So if you want to bring it back we can redo it and torque the lines down properly lol.

This is what a crowsfoot looks like. You stick your torque wrench in it off to the side.

Posted Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK

I just did some Cummins Performance Parts nozzles on some older bodies I had around. By the time I bought the nozzles and had the sticks popped and shimmed back to spec I only saved maybe 75 bucks.

Still - thats $75 and you got to have them balanced/shimmed and pop tested locally :) Seems ok.

My dad came home with a set of crows feet after I asked him if he had any that day :lol: So if you want to bring it back we can redo it and torque the lines down properly lol. This is what a crowsfoot looks like. You stick your torque wrench in it off to the side

How about you come down here and visit slacker !!!! If I can decide to do the mods - we have a bit to do !!!! :tongue: 50/50 at the moment on that decision

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
white01

or snap-on has some nice crowsfoot tools...i have been thinking about some injectors from jaime also..as you see you can get up to 200h.p. ones for $400..don't think that price can be beat...and me personally would buy whole injectors and not just nozzles..but..everyone is different and know there own budget.so that turbo...would that be a good upgrade for me?i am running the stock hy35 still...what kind of max.boost p.s.i. will they make?another thing is will this turbo accept my down pipe without having to buy a hx40 pipe?cuz i have a 4"inch downpipe and when it gets to the frame it is 5" all the way back.another info is helpful:thumbup2:

--- Update to the previous post...

oh i forgot to add the the nut that needs to be torqued..where it tightens up at the head...is very critical...to tight and to lose can/will cause it to leak....per mopar :thumbup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Terry C

My dad came home with a set of crows feet after I asked him if he had any that day :lol: So if you want to bring it back we can redo it and torque the lines down properly lol.

This is what a crowsfoot looks like. You stick your torque wrench in it off to the side.

Posted Image

That is why I like my 12V!! No need for fancy tools. All six of mine were installed in an hour on a hot engine!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK
so that turbo...would that be a good upgrade for me?i am running the stock hy35 still...what kind of max.boost p.s.i. will they make?another thing is will this turbo accept my down pipe without having to buy a hx40 pipe?cuz i have a 4"inch downpipe and when it gets to the frame it is 5" all the way back.another info is helpful:thumbup2:

As far as I know the Hx35 or the hybrid 35/40 are interchangeable with the HY. Only difference is the HY has the vband clamp and the HX35 is a direct bolt in and a couple extra bolts.

I don't think there is a big difference in fueling capabiltiy from what I have read between them - but for us HY people -> lower EGT's due to the exhaust housing. Max boost would really be 35-40psi. Maybe extra 5 psi over HY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jlwelding

With my expertise that I have found, I can now install on a 24 valve in 1.50. I will addmit I did not wont this new found experince.lolAnd by the way christmas has come early for folks in central Tx., we now have a full service Cummins shop just twenty five minutes from the house. yeaaaaaa Where were these people a year ago.I found it going to the Freightliner shop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild and Free

You will need a different down pipe if you go to any turbo that has an hx40 style exh hsg. Not only is the mounting different but it is 4 inch right out of the turbo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK

You will need a different down pipe if you go to any turbo that has an hx40 style exh hsg. Not only is the mounting different but it is 4 inch right out of the turbo.

The HX35 and the hx35/40 hybrids don't have this though right ? So good to go ??

Or is there years specifics as well ??

--- Update to the previous post...

oh yeah .... W+F ....... what do you think about dumping the RV275's and going to +75 or +100HP (on a HX35).

Just didn't really seem to gain much or notice much from the RV275's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jlwelding

John when I went from your 275 back to my DDP 50'S you could tell a big diff. I am not pushing ddp's but they are good inj. DDP 75's or 100's would be awsome with just the set up you have. Imho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK

John when I went from your 275 back to my DDP 50'S you could tell a big diff. I am not pushing ddp's but they are good inj. DDP 75's or 100's would be awsome with just the set up you have. Imho

yeah thanks - I have a sale pending on my RV275's Going to try the CPP +100 s ........ and with my methanol kit hoping should be good power when I push on it - but still ok mileage when I baby it. Now need to find a decent HX35 - keep your ears out :):thumbup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild and Free

If it is an hx35 then no but if its a hx40 hybrid it will have the HX40 4 inch exh flange so there lies the need for a new down pipe. As far as injectors I would stay under the 90hp range with a stock sized turbo. I had a BD super B with BD 90's and could bury the 1600 egt gauge with that setup with a regular comp. To give an idea, Industrial injection only reccomends 90-100hp injectors for the silver 62 turbo I have when I talked to them before buying it a few years ago and it is a WAY bigger than stock turbo. Do you already have a H2O meth system installed on the rig? Personally I would never run a water meth systems unless the head was o-ringed.:2cents:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cajflynn

I tighten my fuel lines with a 3/4 wrench. I tighten them hard. I then drive and retighten the ones that leak. You have to tighten those things pretty hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild and Free

I tighten my fuel lines with a 3/4 wrench. I tighten them hard. I then drive and retighten the ones that leak. You have to tighten those things pretty hard.

The last couple times I have done just this as the suggested torque was not enough to keep em from leaking on my 02.:thumbup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mopar1973Man

Heck with my RV275's, Edge Comp on 5x5, straight pipe ex, BHAF, and HX35 I can tag the 1,400*F easy... 100 HP injectors are going to be extremely hard to control... If you capable of controlling every power level up to 5x5 then I'd say go up in injector size... Remember Edge you can turn down to control EGT temps. But injectors once there install you cannot turn them down all you can do is slow down...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK

ok

you fellas scared me back down to +75HP. I sent the guys an email to change over.

Remember I will be running h20 injection as well - so that should cool and extra 150-250 degrees.

Will keep you posted on numbers ................ gotta get me that HX now

--- Update to the previous post...

Do you already have a H2O meth system installed on the rig? Personally I would never run a water meth systems unless the head was o-ringed.:2cents:

How come - you said before but I don't get the reason.

As long as I remain under 400HP which I should be right at

(230 stock + 75inj + 120 edge + 30 WMI) * 0.85 [15% driveline loss] ........ => 387 HP

I mean all its doing is adding vapour into the combustion cylinder - which gives more pressure -> but reduces cylinder temperatures as well as EGT temps.

If I was breaking 450-500 I could see the need for o-ringed head and ARP studs .............

or is there more to it ? :shrug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wild and Free

ok

you fellas scared me back down to +75HP. I sent the guys an email to change over.

Remember I will be running h20 injection as well - so that should cool and extra 150-250 degrees.

Will keep you posted on numbers ................ gotta get me that HX now

--- Update to the previous post...

How come - you said before but I don't get the reason.

As long as I remain under 400HP which I should be right at

(230 stock + 75inj + 120 edge + 30 WMI) * 0.85 [15% driveline loss] ........ => 387 HP

I mean all its doing is adding vapour into the combustion cylinder - which gives more pressure -> but reduces cylinder temperatures as well as EGT temps.

If I was breaking 450-500 I could see the need for o-ringed head and ARP studs .............

or is there more to it ? :shrug:

You answered your own question. Its all in the cylinder pressure it creates which will reduce the life of the head gasket regardless of egt or hp levels. I have seen wmi take out fire rings and o-ringed gaskets in extreme situations where they upped the jet size for dyno runs or pextra performance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK

You answered your own question. Its all in the cylinder pressure it creates which will reduce the life of the head gasket regardless of egt or hp levels. I have seen wmi take out fire rings and o-ringed gaskets in extreme situations where they upped the jet size for dyno runs or pextra performance.

Cool. I assumed that the pressure really was converted to the extra HP - so essentially as long as you don't go over that 450 ish mark - then should be ok. I am pretty much planning on running straight water - to reduce EGT's and pick up 30HP. I am sure a couple of times I will run some methanol for fun ....... but nothing too heavy .................maybe 30% (straight windhield washer). :tease:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cajflynn

I love that John cannot leave well enough alone. He won't be happy till that enormous trailer does 70 over mountain passes. I wish I could do that with my truck. He is our own very r&d guy and we are better for it. Keep up the detailed research John. I for one hope you pass me on the hills soon!I have had 75's and 100's and if you want more power the 100's are great. The only thing you will need is a bigger turbo. You have an hx-35 so all you need is the bigger turbo for twins and you won't have to worry about egt's. Let me know when you are ready for that. I have an extra big turbo laying around...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOHNFAK

ha ! :thumbup2:Yeah - I really started out just wanting lower EGTs ....... and thought methanol seemed like a good bang for buck. Then thought would like some extra power when I put my foot down . - not often - but fun when you do. So with that came the +75's ........... and a HX35 to come to help handle that extra fuel.Will see what happens - I figured worst case I can remove most of this stuff and go back to stock injectors and no MWI ..... and not be out too much $$ since I am getting on sale / second hand. :) You gonna meet me for a drink sometime your stuck near TEMPE AZ cat ??? :tongue:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Prowelder

The last couple times I have done just this as the suggested torque was not enough to keep em from leaking on my 02.:thumbup2:

Yeah I just tighten them until they feel tight. Sometimes one or two will need a little more, but usually I get it the first time. I've never used a crowfoot to tighten them, just a 19 mm wrench.:thumbup2: As far as temps go, I don't really have a problem with my pump untapped. I could see if you were towing a lot they would probably warm up pretty good so more air is certainly needed. I'm going to be tapping my pump after Dec. 14th so I'll keep everyone updated on how warm it gets then!:thumbup2: If you need any help or pictures on installing the injectors, just let me know. I've got a full write up on CF and can post up some pictures on here if need be.:thumbup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
burb31
https://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2499&page=1首 I used to install the vp44 about once a week at a shop i worked at in 2004. I always used a 3/4 snap on angle wrench and a 19 mm stubby. but what was really nice when u needed a good bite was this window socket from matco tools.....back then it was 45$....now its 55$...but a good tool to have....check it out:thumbup2: part#mst9910

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mopar1973Man

https://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2499&page=1首 I used to install the vp44 about once a week at a shop i worked at in 2004. I always used a 3/4 snap on angle wrench and a 19 mm stubby. but what was really nice when u needed a good bite was this window socket from matco tools.....back then it was 45$....now its 55$...but a good tool to have....check it out:thumbup2: part#mst9910

Now that I've seen that I could make my own for less...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



×