Jump to content
  • Welcome To Mopar1973Man.Com

    We can see that your guest and been lurking about. When you register on the Mopar1973Man.Com site you'll be able to interact with all the other members. This is the most friendliest Cummins forum you'll ever join. Take the time right now and  REGISTER  on the Mopar1973Man.Com this will open up many more options and functions on the website. Everyone is very friendly and helpful just ask questions and everyone will help you out the best they can. 

Sign in to follow this  
jlwelding

Anybody Really Know the Answer

Recommended Posts

If the vp is not tapped and just running say a Edge EZ or comp will it make the vp run hotter. Reason I ask is it is so dang hot down here I dont wont to stress my Bulechip lined with gold vp:lmao2: anymore than I have to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i also have a blue chip vp. it is tapped for my banks. does the electronics really generate much heat? i know when i put my new fp gauge on, i had to remove the fitting from the vp a few times and it was always hot. i was always suprised at how hot it was. i also let it sit for an hour before i worked on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as your fuel pressure is above 14 PSI you good the fuel flowing passed the electronics will be kept cooled. Remember my Edge Comp is tapped and my Edge Comp is wide open on 5x5... 140K miles and still going... :thumb1:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are at day 60 with 100+ heat and I mean it's bad. Sometimes I pop the hood just to let the heat out. It gets 110 in the shop on somedays. So it's got to be tough on everything under the hood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I talked with chip about this last year. He told me that if fuel is run in the vp after shut off it will keep the vp cooler. The problem comes after shut off. The engine heat dissipates into the vp and it is cooled by fuel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the bluechip site the answer would be yes. He says you have to pay more for his upgraded 65hp pump to not have heat rise from that type of programmer. I say horseshit. If you have a good fuel pump you will be fine. I run my trucks for days at a time in that weather pulling heavy stuff without issues. Biggest problem with the hot stuff is getting the ac to stay cold!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to agree with CajFlynn because there is lots and lots of VP44 out there with over 200K... Like my VP44 is just a stock SO pump I've got 140K miles on it and still going... If heat was a issue we all would be dropping like flies...Like next time look at the specs of a laptop... A laptop can be stored in some pretty extreme temps like 158*F without a problem. But the actual operation requires a much lower temperature. Which once again with a good fuel pump the heat will be pull away very quickly. How about the ECM that is hang righ on the block next to 190*F coolant jacket? Hmmm... That doesn't even get a good breeze or cooling fuel...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with both view points but I will say that yes, running a box will cause the VP to run hotter. The more aggressive the box, the more stress on the VP and the more heat it should create. Now whether or not there's enough fuel running through the VP to offset the heat created is the necessary question. I've also asked the question as to why the ECM can tolerate the underhood heat and FPCM can not but I cant confirm whether or not the ECM uses lead free solder like the FPCM unfortunately does. Just imagine how many VP issues would go away if there was some way to relocate the FPCM away from the VP and away from heat.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chip said he tryed to move the vp computer away for more cooling and it didnt work for him. I am sure if someone worked at it there could be a way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put one of Chip's pumps on a few years back with the wire tapped from day one using an Adrenaline and now a hot Comp with no issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chip said he tryed to move the vp computer away for more cooling and it didnt work for him. I am sure if someone worked at it there could be a way.

i had the same coversation with him when i bought my pump and was having ecm problems. i got to agree with you. with all the other computers scattered about, it seems you ought to be able to move that on as well.

--- Update to the previous post...

According to the bluechip site the answer would be yes. He says you have to pay more for his upgraded 65hp pump to not have heat rise from that type of programmer. I say horseshit. If you have a good fuel pump you will be fine. I run my trucks for days at a time in that weather pulling heavy stuff without issues. Biggest problem with the hot stuff is getting the ac to stay cold!

you have a goood pump and now i do too. i probably run thru 4 to 6 heat cycle a day and after installing my big line kit i was suprised at how hot the ip was after letting everything cool off for an hour before messing with it. if your engine runs for days it still has the fuel to cool it.

I tend to agree with CajFlynn because there is lots and lots of VP44 out there with over 200K... Like my VP44 is just a stock SO pump I've got 140K miles on it and still going... If heat was a issue we all would be dropping like flies...

i would tend to agrre with both of yall, but it might tend to be more on the lines of how the truck is used. whether it is running days at a time or a lot of short trips a day could make a differance in how many heat cycles the computers go thru. my last pump had 140k on it but was starting to act up. i had the money and bought a new one so it would not leave me stranded. but before i got to put in on my ecm crapped out. it seems that have seen alot of people with the same problem lately. not a majority by any means, but quite a few. could this be a heat problem for the ecm's?

Like next time look at the specs of a laptop... A laptop can be stored in some pretty extreme temps like 158*F without a problem. But the actual operation requires a much lower temperature. Which once again with a good fuel pump the heat will be pull away very quickly. How about the ECM that is hang righ on the block next to 190*F coolant jacket? Hmmm... That doesn't even get a good breeze or cooling fuel...

i meant to get all that in below this. maybe the space between the block and the ecm helps.

I agree with both view points but I will say that yes, running a box will cause the VP to run hotter. The more aggressive the box, the more stress on the VP and the more heat it should create. Now whether or not there's enough fuel running through the VP to offset the heat created is the necessary question. I've also asked the question as to why the ECM can tolerate the underhood heat and FPCM can not but I cant confirm whether or not the ECM uses lead free solder like the FPCM unfortunately does. Just imagine how many VP issues would go away if there was some way to relocate the FPCM away from the VP and away from heat.

it does seem to me that running a chip of some sort would cause the electronics to run hotter because it its function is beyond what it was designed for. i really dont know squat about that kind of stuff.the only thing i know about lead free solder is you cannot use it on potable water systems due to people having to drink the water.

that is more than i have ever said about any thing this technical since i have been a member here. the only reason i had the guts to say it is because of evrything i have learned here since joining up with you guys. Thanks to all of you for the confidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the reason I started this subject, everybody I talk to says it makes it run hotter. Well I am down here in the arm pit of h--- and it's brutal hot down here. You can shut off eng. at 8:00pm and at 6"30am its still warm. It gets 115 with the heat index and I may start and stop 10 times a day.Just wanted to here your thoughts.Thanks everybody

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i got the pottable water part wrong by the way. you have to use lead free solder on potable water.:doh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chip said he tryed to move the vp computer away for more cooling and it didnt work for him. I am sure if someone worked at it there could be a way.

Agreed. But when I talked to Chip, he mentioned someone else trying to move the FPCM, not him. The biggest problem we face with solving VP issues is that it takes time and money and spare VP's to experiment with. So the question is, does anyone have a truck to test on, a few VP's lying around that they dont mind tearing apart knowing that they'll never get a dime for them in the future, and the money to fabricate and purchase parts? Anyone?.......... Didnt think so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it isn't hot enough outside to make the engine overheat, then there is no issue. I don't have a fan, when I sit at a stoplight, the whole engine bay is HOT, and I see no signs of any issues. This includes pulling the trailer when it was 105F here, no fan, stoplights everywhere... The issue seems to be when you turn the truck off. The heat soak really gets to it. I watched John's truck climb in fuel temp up towards 150F every time you turned the truck off from operating temp, the fuel stops flowing and the engine equalizes. This doesn't necessarily facilitate an environment where everything is gonna melt as many things have a rating when not in use that is much higher than when they are running. A hard drive has a much lower shock rating while running than when it is off. Me and Mike spent hours going over this after I noticed it on John's truck. I think the problem lies when you turn the truck back on and it is still hot and the injection pump has been heat soaked and then the current creates more heat and stuff melts. Thing is, even if it was only 80F, the engine is still 190 when you turn it off and the underhood temps are always high because it has a way of insulating the heat. Therefore, I don't believe any temp from 60 on up to 120 is going to make a difference, the pump is still going to see 150+ temps no matter what unless you somehow cool the engine off quickly. When you start the truck, the pump quickly cools as fuel goes through it, so the only time I see the issue is the initial 5 minutes after the pump is still heat soaked because the engine has been ran sometime soon beforehand. Bluechip supposedly has a cure for this which entails leaving the lift pump on for a while, maybe even just pulsating it for a while, to keep cool fuel going through the pump to keep it from heat soaking until the engine has cooled enough to not heat up the pump to dangerous levels (which I am not sure at what temp they consider dangerous). As far as their idea goes, flowing through the pump while the truck is off seems to be a challenge. If you turn the lift pump on with the truck off, the pump merely wizzes out the overflow at a very low rate that probably couldn't keep up with the heat soak rate. My suggestion if you are worried about it is to keep your tank above 1/4 or 1/2 tank, that way there is a lot of fuel to radiate the heat. I doubt it would really make that much difference though. Frankly I don't think anything you do will stop the heat soak or even cool it down much aside from putting a peltier or something on it. I really wouldn't worry about it. I thought the blue chip X had the better solder in it so it isn't an issue anymore? If that's the case I wouldn't worry about it at all. Keep 2 stroke in it and call it good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ISX, I agree with you in almost everything you said except that I have physically (by touch) checked FPCM temp under various ambient temps, with engine running/engine off, and with the hood open/shut. When its about 75* or cooler outside then the FPCM is much cooler as well, even after any heat soak. When its hot out and I get home, I open the hood to let as much heat out as possible. It seems that knowing whats going on can cause more anxiety than I care for. As for Chips recent method of leaving the fuel pump running after shut down doesn't seem as effective as it sounds since the amount of fuel which is going to pass through the VP will be minimal at best. No matter, its frustrating to think that everything were discussing is merely because of lead free solder.Also, you mentioned not running an engine fan in triple digit summer heat and I have to ask, is that with the A/C running too? Because no air passing over the A/C compressor while the compressor is running will cause it to fail. Plus your A/C must really be crappy while you're not moving. But I'm sure you already know this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ISX, I agree with you in almost everything you said except that I have physically (by touch) checked FPCM temp under various ambient temps, with engine running/engine off, and with the hood open/shut. When its about 75* or cooler outside then the FPCM is much cooler as well, even after any heat soak. When its hot out and I get home, I open the hood to let as much heat out as possible. It seems that knowing whats going on can cause more anxiety than I care for. As for Chips recent method of leaving the fuel pump running after shut down doesn't seem as effective as it sounds since the amount of fuel which is going to pass through the VP will be minimal at best. No matter, its frustrating to think that everything were discussing is merely because of lead free solder. Also, you mentioned not running an engine fan in triple digit summer heat and I have to ask, is that with the A/C running too? Because no air passing over the A/C compressor while the compressor is running will cause it to fail. Plus your A/C must really be crappy while you're not moving. But I'm sure you already know this.

It was around 70F when I was seeing 150F heat soak of the VP, seen on the fuel temp sensor in the VP that the edge juice is able to tap into. This happened over a period of several hours. I don't own a 24V so you probably know more about it's tendencies than the few days I spent with one but it was definitely not blistery hot out and it was still getting really hot since the engine takes forever to cool down which gives it hours to soak up all the heat. Of course the A/C was running, it was hotter than hell out lol. I turn the air off while I am at stoplights since the A/C does just start to get hot. It takes it a while to get hot though so if I know the stoplight is short I will leave it on. Engine coolant takes a long time to get above 212 so it's not even a concern of mine, though 24V's seem to get hotter a lot faster based on what Mike tells me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw on Chip's site that they tried insulating the VP and also cooling fans... "which did not work". Well, if I was in that hot environment I'd still want to try a muffin fan & ducting outside air to the VP to run after shut down. I posted previously about a overheat situation I found myself in after a long pull... and I idled the engine with the hood up for 15 minutes to bring everything down. Fortunately I had made it to my camping spot & used the time to set the camper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it seems to me if you did try to over come heat soak with the fuel pump it would have to run quite a while considering how long the engine hold that heat. when i installed my big line kit i let the truck sit with the hood open for an hour before i messed with it. the fitting on the vp was still to hot to hold onto for very long. there is no telling how long you would have to keep fuel running thru it to overcome the temp of the block. i have good fuel pressure and run 2 cycle so i gues i will not sweat it. i drove my truck for 8 years without knowing any of this and never really worried about it. i hope to drive it another 8 years. if it takes another pump to do it, i think that would be a small price if the rest of the truck holds together reasonably. i dont need another payment and really love this truck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its really interesting that we're all thinking the same thing. I too was really wanting to try hooking up some sort of small fan blowing directly on the FPCM for a set time of about 30 minutes or so after shut down but its apparent that trying to set up something electrical able for such a task would be involved. Thats not even know whether or not it would do anything either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the funny part is cooling the upper part does no good being there is plastic and air gap between the electronics... The back side is aluminum and dump heat into the fuel.post-2-138698179772_thumb.jpgpost-2-138698179776_thumb.jpgSo I understand why BlueChip was thinking run the lift pump after the truck is shut down would actually cool it down but the fact is the VP44 doesn't flow much fuel unless its turning...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing that brings me back to a dead end is that the engine stays hot for hours on end. When his pump was 150F that was up to 3 hours after the truck had been shut down. It takes a few minutes to bring that pump back to ambient temps (or close) when you start it back up. Unless the fuel pump pulsates a little for hourrrss with a pulsation duration of maybe 10 seconds every minute, then I don't see it working. The chip gets the heat from somewhere, if the pump is cool then the chip will be cool as well, you don't have to directly cool the chip you just have to get rid of the heat sources that influence it. There are hundreds of solutions but none of them challenge a truck in a remote location that needs pump cooling until the engine is cool (several hours). It is also hard to cool something that is connected to the engine block therefore continues to get heat soaked. The best thing to do would be to circulate the fuel at a constant rate maybe 1gpm, and cool the fuel, though while driving the pump is always close to ambient so the fuel tank must radiate the heat pretty good. From another viewpoint, I don't see why they can't just make the pump more heat resistant. There are many what if's involved with this pump, and so far everyone has just been trying to mask the problem by trying to cool it or something. I don't see why we can't eliminate the what if.. What if my truck runs out of fuel? Oh I can eliminate it by topping it off... There are distinct differences between fixes and solutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think i am just going to let my vp bask in its warmth for now. i need the cash for other things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok you yall know it's coming so here it is. P-PUMP IT

I always love that really expensive solution... :doh: Requires removal of the cam to change the gear case, new lift pump for higher fuel pressure or change the cam so you can use the mechanical lift pump, re-pop all the injectors for fit the P-pump, re-create throttle linkage for the p-pump, order a modified set of lines, the p-pump of course... But the time your done your looking at at least 2 days and right around $3000 roughly. Heck I could always buy a CR engine and spend that kind of money of injectors... :duh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



×
×
  • Create New...