A little package came...

[hex0rz]

The 24v valves are computer controlled. So if I push the pedal in, it does not matter. I would call it an "electronic throttle". Yours is mechanical, ISX. I would have done the same thing, but it does not apply here. It reminds me of those days when I had a carbed truck and had to get it going like that in the cold mornings...

Yea, so I followed my theory. I cracked lines 1, 3, 4 and 5. Cranked the truck. Line 1 started weeping fuel. Closed it. Waited for the starter to cool, then cranked. Got line 5 to weep. Then did 3 and 4. Only took 3 cranks to get her going!

She ran a little rough for a moment then smoothed out. Had a haze at idle. Truck was cold... Got my oil pressure and reved a little. Had a good cloud going. So I ran it for a few minutes to let her purge and warm up a little. Double-checked everything and got her out for a spin!

So right off the bat, she ran ALOT smoother! The response was snappier and does not take nearly as much throttle to get her up to speed! If I'm not careful she can take off from under you!

I did a big loop through town and the outskirts on the backroads. By the time I got it 1/2 way through town, she was already warming up. It was definitely alot quicker than before!

By the time I could get her opened up I was on the backroads. Got her doing 80 without even a WOT. I did not want to do WOT anyways as I don't want to stress the transmission. The transmission seemed to handle the power just fine, too! Seemed to shift alot smoother.

So I noticed driving that if I get her going, the coolant temp is a tick above 190. Hoping that is normal and my cooling system is fine. Just thinking that its from the sudden introduction of all those BTU's?

So the truck puts out more heat. I can have a warmer cab sooner and hotter! Gotta love the excellent atomization! It matters!

Before I did the injectors, cruising, I noticed that the EGT's would be at 700 degrees F doing 70mph. Now, doing 70mph cruising, the EGT's are at 800 degrees F.

Fuel pressure is doing good as well. Did not notice any need to address fuel pressure. Although, BOOST is significant! Getting on it to get up to 80mph, boost was at 27psi. I'm sure I could have gotten up to 30psi or more on a WOT.

Idling warm, it was much quieter and smoother. Although, after my little escapade, I probably sucked down a few gallons! Gotta be easy on the throttle!

All in all, I would say its one of the most IMPORTANTE upgrades! I do not regret doing these injectors!

So, here is some pictures of the injector job!

This is before I cleaned them up.. What is this all about?

Took a wire wheel on my drill to them. Cleaned up pretty good!

Here are my old injectors! WOW! This picture does not do justice! Yea, we can see that they are all coked and sooted up. But what you don't see is that some of the holes looked blocked! Coking dominated these!

Taking out these old injectors, I could see disel dripping off the ends... I dunno if they were all pooled up on the nozzle, or if it was just diesel leaking out from the relief port down the injector.

Regardless, they needed replaced!

I noticed, I have the crankcase breather modification, and it vents right onto my front diff. It looks wet from the venting. I'm concerned these injectors have been leaking for a while now. Is there any tests I can do besides having an oil analysis done to see if I need to do an oil change?

Also, could this amount of coking/soot on these old injectors be all from me? Or is this something that looks like thousands of miles of neglect?

[98whitelightnin]

My crossover tubes have never looked like that and I have had them out many times. I will get a pic of one in a few minutes to show how they look.

[hex0rz]

My crossover tubes have never looked like that and I have had them out many times. I will get a pic of one in a few minutes to show how they look.

I know what the tubes are supposed to look like.. I'm wondering how in the world they could have gotten this way in the first place...

[98whitelightnin]

I was refering to another member saying that them being corroded was common. Here is one I just pulled out to replace because i boogered the end up. How do the ends look where they meet the injectors? May have been leaking a little over the years caused them to rust?

[hex0rz]

I was refering to another member saying that them being corroded was common. Here is one I just pulled out to replace because i boogered the end up. How do the ends look where they meet the injectors? May have been leaking a little over the years caused them to rust?

See, what gets me is that I can't even think how the connector tubes remotely even seal to the injector body at all. It has to be a precision machined fit to the mating surfaces for there not to be ANY leakage... It worries me that I may not have them perfectly mated... ugh... :banghead: But, I did insert the injector, then the tube, and the hold-down plate. So they have to be mated correctly... ...some things, they drive me crazy!!!! So, it sounds like I'm just gonna play it safe and get my oil changed. I called a couple people and they suggested an oil anlysis. But I'm afraid of having too much in the oil right now. I've got a long trip to make soon and I do not want the engine to get damaged from the trip.

[98whitelightnin]

You might just think about getting some new tubes, Change them one at a time and you wont have to bleed the system. I pulled my injectors the other day and and didnt have any to put back in so I just pushed my tubes back in the head and connected my lines back to the head ( I dont pull my lines when I change injectors), well I pushed the tube pictured in to far and had to pry it out with a screwdriver and boogered up the tip a little. If its even the smallest bit off they will leak and not idle smooth. When I first put my injector in, it idled at 780rpm and didnt have 10rpm of bounce, it was perfectly smooth.

[hex0rz]

You might just think about getting some new tubes, Change them one at a time and you wont have to bleed the system. I pulled my injectors the other day and and didnt have any to put back in so I just pushed my tubes back in the head and connected my lines back to the head ( I dont pull my lines when I change injectors), well I pushed the tube pictured in to far and had to pry it out with a screwdriver and boogered up the tip a little. If its even the smallest bit off they will leak and not idle smooth. When I first put my injector in, it idled at 780rpm and didnt have 10rpm of bounce, it was perfectly smooth.

I don't think I need to get new tubes. The ends were just fine. The truck idles really smooth, so I don't think I have any leaking... Now, tell me! How in the WORLD do you pull the connector tubes without removing the hardlines? This is a SECRET that I MUST know!

[98whitelightnin]

Just remove the 5 or so bolts that holds the lines to the intake and move them out of the way as you need to. I have done injectors probably 10 times and never pulled the lines.

[dripley]

Your lift pump will push fuel thru the VP. I spent 30 minutes one day looking for a fuel leak that was just fuel passing thru it. I had mine cracked open for a restart after the ADII install. It will definately push fuel thru the VP.

[ISX]

I meant you can't just hook the lines up and crank until it goes, I knew flooring it did nothing. I think it works on the CR trucks, just cranking and it fires.. As for the soot on the injectors, thats completely normal. In fact, they would look the same 10 miles later after you clean them.. It is just carbon build up. It builds as a dusting and then gets coked on over time. I don't know if you can just look at them and tell if they are blocked, you would have to pop test them to really tell. You can still see some shin on the nozzles so it's not like the carbon is coked on there. They look very normal to me. I think John's truck's crossover tubes looked the same. I know they had the brown coking from fuel leaking on them. I have no idea how they seal either, would think you could get a better seal by lapping them somehow.

[pepsi71ocean]

From what I've read, the lift pump does not push fuel through the vp44. You have to crank the truck to get any fuel past the vp44.

I did originally have the lines torqued down, then I loosened them. I did it that way so the lines would seat properly. Sounds like I just need to crack the lines again and shut each one as they start weeping fuel...

I'll report back in a little!

Aftermarket pumps like the FASS or Airdog even rapotors, will easily push fuel through the VP-44.

The 24v valves are computer controlled. So if I push the pedal in, it does not matter. I would call it an "electronic throttle". Yours is mechanical, ISX. I would have done the same thing, but it does not apply here. It reminds me of those days when I had a carbed truck and had to get it going like that in the cold mornings...

Yea, so I followed my theory. I cracked lines 1, 3, 4 and 5. Cranked the truck. Line 1 started weeping fuel. Closed it. Waited for the starter to cool, then cranked. Got line 5 to weep. Then did 3 and 4. Only took 3 cranks to get her going!

She ran a little rough for a moment then smoothed out. Had a haze at idle. Truck was cold... Got my oil pressure and reved a little. Had a good cloud going. So I ran it for a few minutes to let her purge and warm up a little. Double-checked everything and got her out for a spin!

So right off the bat, she ran ALOT smoother! The response was snappier and does not take nearly as much throttle to get her up to speed! If I'm not careful she can take off from under you!

I did a big loop through town and the outskirts on the backroads. By the time I got it 1/2 way through town, she was already warming up. It was definitely alot quicker than before!

By the time I could get her opened up I was on the backroads. Got her doing 80 without even a WOT. I did not want to do WOT anyways as I don't want to stress the transmission. The transmission seemed to handle the power just fine, too! Seemed to shift alot smoother.

So I noticed driving that if I get her going, the coolant temp is a tick above 190. Hoping that is normal and my cooling system is fine. Just thinking that its from the sudden introduction of all those BTU's?

So the truck puts out more heat. I can have a warmer cab sooner and hotter! Gotta love the excellent atomization! It matters!

Before I did the injectors, cruising, I noticed that the EGT's would be at 700 degrees F doing 70mph. Now, doing 70mph cruising, the EGT's are at 800 degrees F.

Fuel pressure is doing good as well. Did not notice any need to address fuel pressure. Although, BOOST is significant! Getting on it to get up to 80mph, boost was at 27psi. I'm sure I could have gotten up to 30psi or more on a WOT.

Idling warm, it was much quieter and smoother. Although, after my little escapade, I probably sucked down a few gallons! Gotta be easy on the throttle!

All in all, I would say its one of the most IMPORTANTE upgrades! I do not regret doing these injectors!

So, here is some pictures!

Here are my old injectors! WOW! This picture does not do justice! Yea, we can see that they are all coked and sooted up. But what you don't see is that some of the holes looked blocked! Coking dominated these!

Taking out these old injectors, I could see disel dripping off the ends... I dunno if they were all pooled up on the nozzle, or if it was just diesel leaking out from the relief port down the injector.

Regardless, they needed replaced!

I noticed, I have the crankcase breather modification, and it vents right onto my front diff. It looks wet from the venting. I'm concerned these injectors have been leaking for a while now. Is there any tests I can do besides having an oil analysis done to see if I need to do an oil change?

Also, could this amount of coking/soot on these old injectors be all from me? Or is this something that looks like thousands of miles of neglect?

Yes a hair over 190 is normal.

As for those tubes, i have never seen crossover tubes like that, the only thing i can think of is that the crossover tube is not sealing properly against the head and causing fluid to get inside and then turn to rust??

As for injectors, yea that is normal, the best thing to do is to get a heavy trailer say 10,000 and up and take it for a spin for a few hours and keep the pyro's above 1,000F and it will burn off.

As for diesel in the oil, if you get diesel in the oil you will know.

this is what it looks like.

My best advice is that you won't gain any diesel, if you did then you would know there is only two ways to get diesel in your motor oil 1. a worn cylinder, 2. bad Vp-44...

Anyways you will know because you will gain oil, and after 1,000 miles it will look like that!

See, what gets me is that I can't even think how the connector tubes remotely even seal to the injector body at all. It has to be a precision machined fit to the mating surfaces for there not to be ANY leakage...

It worries me that I may not have them perfectly mated... ugh... :banghead:

But, I did insert the injector, then the tube, and the hold-down plate. So they have to be mated correctly...

...some things, they drive me crazy!!!!

So, it sounds like I'm just gonna play it safe and get my oil changed. I called a couple people and they suggested an oil anlysis. But I'm afraid of having too much in the oil right now. I've got a long trip to make soon and I do not want the engine to get damaged from the trip.

you inserted the injectors, then crossover tubes, then tightened the fittings down then tightened the injectors? your fine.

Unlike the CR injectors, VP injectors are almost idiot proof, and you will know the things will leak like a sive, your have a miss and hard starting. unless you get symptoms i think your fine.

I meant you can't just hook the lines up and crank until it goes, I knew flooring it did nothing. I think it works on the CR trucks, just cranking and it fires..

As for the soot on the injectors, thats completely normal. In fact, they would look the same 10 miles later after you clean them.. It is just carbon build up. It builds as a dusting and then gets coked on over time. I don't know if you can just look at them and tell if they are blocked, you would have to pop test them to really tell. You can still see some shin on the nozzles so it's not like the carbon is coked on there. They look very normal to me.

I think John's truck's crossover tubes looked the same. I know they had the brown coking from fuel leaking on them. I have no idea how they seal either, would think you could get a better seal by lapping them somehow.

with the CR trucks just cranking it will cause the fuel to flow into the rail and right through the return. they are easier then the VP trucks.

[hex0rz]

Just remove the 5 or so bolts that holds the lines to the intake and move them out of the way as you need to. I have done injectors probably 10 times and never pulled the lines.

:banghead: ...you know how much time that could have saved me? When I approach a service intervale for the injectors, I'll check the tubes then and see if they have changed conditions. Then I will know if something is up besides the injectors... I went and bought 3 gallons of Chevron Delo 400LE to do an oil change. I'll take a picture of the current crankcase oil and put it on a paper towel so you guys can see. I'll need a response real soon though. Cause if I need to do an oil change, I gotta get it done tonight. BTW, I was worried about whether or not I installed the injectors correctly because I read that you can have a small leak and not know it.. Also, I read and was told that if an injector is not operating properly, the oil can become diluted from the diesel through this means.

[pepsi71ocean]

:banghead: ...you know how much time that could have saved me? When I approach a service intervale for the injectors, I'll check the tubes then and see if they have changed conditions. Then I will know if something is up besides the injectors... I went and bought 3 gallons of Chevron Delo 400LE to do an oil change. I'll take a picture of the current crankcase oil and put it on a paper towel so you guys can see. I'll need a response real soon though. Cause if I need to do an oil change, I gotta get it done tonight. BTW, I was worried about whether or not I installed the injectors correctly because I read that you can have a small leak and not know it.. Also, I read and was told that if an injector is not operating properly, the oil can become diluted from the diesel through this means.

did you see my pictures? yea, but a improperly seated injector is more or less if you leave that copper washer in there, and have two by mistake.

[hex0rz]

The first image you uploaded did not show. Only saw the 2nd one. Heck, I would think you would not be able to get an injector to even go in right if you had double washers...

Okay, so I went out and took some oil and put it on a paper towel.

Heres the results:

^ After 5 minutes or so

Right after the dipstick application

Added a dime

After sitting 2 minutes

[pepsi71ocean]

this was taken about 10 seconds after i put the dip stick on it.You have some dilution, but its to early to tell, usually you can tell if your gaining oil, typically within a few hundred miles you should gain oil, i gained an inch on the dipstick withing 300 miles, and now that my VP-44 is fixed, i have to do frequent oil changes to try and flush the diesel out.if your oil is black your fine, if its green, or looks brand new then you got a problem.

[hex0rz]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3760[/ATTACH] this was taken about 10 seconds after i put the dip stick on it. You have some dilution, but its to early to tell, usually you can tell if your gaining oil, typically within a few hundred miles you should gain oil, i gained an inch on the dipstick withing 300 miles, and now that my VP-44 is fixed, i have to do frequent oil changes to try and flush the diesel out. if your oil is black your fine, if its green, or looks brand new then you got a problem.

So do you think I will be okay driving it without changing the oil? That way I can see what the oil level does? I have put 3,782 miles on this batch of oil...

[pepsi71ocean]

think you'll be fine, i was gaining ~1/2-1 gallon of diesel in 500 miles, and the cummins is still here, im hoping to flush the fuel out of it, but not sure if frequent oil changes will be the true answer.IMO, if you have the money, change your oil. I bought 10 gallons of 15-40 and 12 3959 filters for the truck, with the knowing that i'll burn them all up trying to clean the cummins out.If you do change it its just insurance, since you will notice it on your trip if your gaining oil.

[dripley]

My oil started growing last time i moved my 5th wheel. Combined weight 22.5k, pulled up and over the Blue Ridge Mtns and gained enough oil in the first 300 miles to vent thru the crank case breather. Took it easy the next 200 miles, parked the RV and the problem went away. Drove to my daughters house a few weeks later and ran the ____ out of it and it did almost the same thing, just not as bad. I replaced my injectors and cross over tube orings and have not had any problem with oil growing since.

[hex0rz]

Alright, boys! After driving 6 hours and 261 miles later, I have made my destination! My wifes aunt is on her death bed. :banghead:Drove from Sandpoint down through Lewiston and off to Grangeville. After visiting her in the hospital, made our way from there to Kamiah.I gotta tell ya, these people are NUTS! People are driving these windy roads like its a rally car race! The stupidity!On the other hand, I had to slow down for 4 snow-plow trucks on the way down here and had to deal with cross-winds, etc. Nothing major...The lewiston grade was kinda fun... Did 70mph all the way down! Coasted that one in neutral. Had to brake a few times and it sure gotthe brakes HOT. If my truck does not need anymore TLC, the exhaust brake is next on the list!Performance was A+! I'm here at the relatives house and hand calculated with my estimated fuel consumption, to be 22.28mpg! :ahhh:Thats a 6! Yes, 6 MILE TO THE GALLON INCREASE! I've been trying to keep off the throttle as much as possible. Seems to be working good?I suppose we shall see on the way back. As everything is going to be an uphill battle...As for the oil goes, I'm gonna check it out in the morning. I will start another thread on this, but I think I got 2 oil leaks going...

[Mopar1973Man]

Sorry to hear about your Aunt having problems... But I'm glad to hear your truck is doing better!

As for injectors, yea that is normal, the best thing to do is to get a heavy trailer say 10,000 and up and take it for a spin for a few hours and keep the pyro's above 1,000F and it will burn off.

One of the better ways to clean injectors... I just got back from dragging around the Jayco... I pulled two grades and seen a nice toasty 1,200*F on both... Cook'em Clean!