New to this forum need some advise

[Jim 5150]

Tried other forums and used there search feature and just keep getting told to use the search feature:banghead:.

Need advise on a programmer. I am looking for one with gauges and that wont hurt my mpg was looking at the JWAcs.

Can anyone with any knowladge point me in the right direction. any help is appreciated. thanks

[cajflynn]

I use the smarty jr. It doesn't have the gauges but it is a great programmer for the cr.

[War Eagle]

I use a Smarty but have an Edge CTS Insight for the guage.Edge also makes several options that include the CTS or the CS guage as the programmer controller.Bully Dog also makes one as does Banks and these programmers can come with the guage or without.Actually the list goes on.I would recommend a "google" for diesel programmers for starters and delve into the various products.

[ABennin]

Hello, I have been running a Edge Juice with Attitude on my '00 for about 6 years now and it works great and has alot of excellent features I was looking for. I didn't see any significant MPG gains but the power is nice. If you go the downloader route, Smarty or Smarty Jr gets my vote. I got to play around with a Smart Jr and try out different settings on my uncles '06. It is a very nice product. We left the milage tune in it and he has seen 2 mpg increase on the highway. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't. The edge has treated me good. I do hear some stories about how the company is run after it has been sold off and customer service isn't what it use to be. But I have no first hand experience with this. I hope the quality of the product is still of good quality and not cheapened up.

[Jim 5150]

I use a Smarty but have an Edge CTS Insight for the guage.

Edge also makes several options that include the CTS or the CS guage as the programmer controller.

Bully Dog also makes one as does Banks and these programmers can come with the guage or without.

Actually the list goes on.

I would recommend a "google" for diesel programmers for starters and delve into the various products.

Been there done that looking for personal experiance not what the manufacturer claims. Basically what works and whats reliable and trusted by other Cummins owners

- - - Updated - - -

Hello, I have been running a Edge Juice with Attitude on my '00 for about 6 years now and it works great and has alot of excellent features I was looking for. I didn't see any significant MPG gains but the power is nice. If you go the downloader route, Smarty or Smarty Jr gets my vote. I got to play around with a Smart Jr and try out different settings on my uncles '06. It is a very nice product. We left the milage tune in it and he has seen 2 mpg increase on the highway. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't. The edge has treated me good. I do hear some stories about how the company is run after it has been sold off and customer service isn't what it use to be. But I have no first hand experience with this. I hope the quality of the product is still of good quality and not cheapened up.

Thanks for the info. Can I load a smarty and use something else like a banks iq or the cs just for gauges???

[Mopar1973Man]

I did separate gauges because then that way not all your eggs are in one basket. Edge Juice when it fails you'll lose the gauges and everything else. But with separate gauges and Edge Comp if a gauge fails just replace the single gauge. If the Edge Comp fails just replace the Edge Comp. For the most part Edge Comp and Edge Juice are the same except that Edge Juice put everything in one module (all your eggs in one basket) and Edge Comp doesn't have any extras.

[Jim 5150]

So I can run the edge comp and still use the cs for guages and are they accurate? Sorry for all the questions but last time i used a programmer was 8 years ago on a 6.0 gm gasser and hated it. Or better to just run a programmer and mech gauges?

[Mopar1973Man]

So I can run the edge comp and still use the cs for guages and are they accurate? Sorry for all the questions but last time i used a programmer was 8 years ago on a 6.0 gm gasser and hated it. Or better to just run a programmer and mech gauges?

Personally I don't think any electric gauge is accurate because over time the electric senders start to fail slightly skewing the reading, or electrical issues with grounds or such skewing the readings, etc. This another reason I stayed away from them stuck solely to mechanical gauges. Because a mechanic gauge will continue to work even when the truck fails. Where most electric gauges fail and give you fail security. Like a common issue is fuel pressure sender starts to fail and the pressure start to rise more than actual. Remember this just my personal opinions...

[Jim 5150]

Personally I don't think any electric gauge is accurate because over time the electric senders start to fail slightly skewing the reading, or electrical issues with grounds or such skewing the readings, etc. This another reason I stayed away from them stuck solely to mechanical gauges. Because a mechanic gauge will continue to work even when the truck fails. Where most electric gauges fail and give you fail security. Like a common issue is fuel pressure sender starts to fail and the pressure start to rise more than actual. Remember this just my personal opinions...

I appreciate it great info. Think I will go with a smarty jr and some mech gauges then. I want to monitor boost egt and fuel preasure. Is there anything else I should worry about or that would be any more important then the others?

[cajflynn]

The edge comp is great for 2nd gens but the smarty is the best for common rails. You can use a smarty or smarty jr and the edge cts, cs together.

[diesel4life]

I appreciate it great info. Think I will go with a smarty jr and some mech gauges then. I want to monitor boost egt and fuel preasure. Is there anything else I should worry about or that would be any more important then the others?

Hey Jim, the smarty is definitely a good choice. As far as what to monitor, your right on track with egt and boost. Fuel pressure is a good one for peace of mind but from what I understand is not nearly as critical as say with the 2nd gens. Still not a bad idea though, better to be proactive than reactive! Welcome aboard

[98whitelightnin]

You dont want a pressure box. I had one on my 2003 and it was hard on injectors. I would stick with a smarty or smarty jr. and gauges of your choice. I like Mike and alot of other's like mechanical gauges. Check out the classifieds here and over on the cummins forum and you can usually find used smarty jr's. for $300-$350.

[AH64ID]

I'm a little late getting into this thread, but some good info is being put out. The Smarty Jr is really the best option out there. I ran one for nearly 5 years before upgrading so a Smarty S06 last month. I put about 70K miles on my Jr and it's a great programmer. Since you have a NV5600 your weakest link with added power will be your fuel pump, if it's the OE engine mounted pump. If you have the in-tank retro then the turbo/fuel pump are about matched for peak potential. For gauges I recommend the ISSPRO EV2's. They are electrical, but can have warning lights set so you get the added warning of digital gauges with analog readings. I upgraded to EV2's this spring and they have been great, easy to read, and I like the warning light. Diesel Auto Power, link in my sig, had the best price of anyone on the EV2's by far. Smarty's are all the same price unless you buy used. The JWA's seem to have mixed results on reliability, and I would recommend a programmer over a module on your truck.

[cajflynn]

Rail pressure would probably be more useful than fuel pressure.

[AH64ID]

Rail pressure would probably be more useful than fuel pressure.

Not necessarily. Unless you know what the commanded rail pressure is you won't know if it's off. It varies so much based on load/rpm that you can get general idea's but nothing concrete. RP gauges, aside from the UG, are very expensive for their usefulness when running stock pressure. Also if RP is off, low or high, you should get an OBDII code. Low pressure fuel pressure is not as critical as a 2nd gen, but is nice to know the quality of the filters, etc. It also helps diagnose starting issues, but really isn't super necessary. The UG I referred to is the Ultra Gauge, and is by far the cheapest RP gauge out there, but I don't believe the rail pressure reading works on trucks before 2005.

[cajflynn]

When you load any smarty it will update the stock program. The updated program will now set off the wait to start light when it senses something wrong in the fuel system. There is not always a corresponding code for this. The light can be set off by a bad or many bad injectors, bad fuel lines, bad fca, etc. For this I believe the rail pressure gauge would be more useful as a diagnostic tool than a fuel pressure gauge.

[AH64ID]

When you load any smarty it will update the stock program. The updated program will now set off the wait to start light when it senses something wrong in the fuel system. There is not always a corresponding code for this. The light can be set off by a bad or many bad injectors, bad fuel lines, bad fca, etc. For this I believe the rail pressure gauge would be more useful as a diagnostic tool than a fuel pressure gauge.

This is still something that a RP gauge wouldn't help diagnose. The WTS and de-rate are accompanied by a engine code, P1222 or P1223. The ECM is calculating too much return flow, which can easily be set off with rail pressure withing normal specs. Those are the only 2 codes that will accompany the WTS, nothing else will. There are plenty of other codes for FCA/CP3/injector issues.

I am not saying a RP gauge is a bad idea, I have one, just saying that on truck with a stock CP3/Injectors and the power the OP is asking about there isn't much need for one. A RP is really needed when you either tuning your own rail pressure map, pushing the limits of the CP3, or running aftermarket and HIGH flow CP3 (s).

If you are comparing a RP to LP for diagnostic reasons I am just not sure what a RP gauge will let you diagnose? If the pressure is low, what is causing it? Is it low supply pressure, or a supply restriction? If the pressure is too high how do you know? If it's slow to react what is causing it? How do you know it's slow to react? The ECM monitors the rail/FCA, but it doesn't monitor low pressure fuel. What's normal at one load/rpm/elevation is different at another elevation. My point is that unless you can compare commanded/actual fuel pressure, and then look at things like commanded/actual FCA position there is very little RP actually tells you for trouble shooting, unless it's really high or really low.. and then why? The gauge doesn't tell you why.

For 99% of the time I think a low pressure fuel gauge tells you more useful information, you know what it is supposed to be, and there are far more supply related issues than high pressure issues.

I know that when I first got a RP gauge several years ago I thought I had issues based on how the pressure would climb/fall. Without the availability to look at stock pressure maps there was no way to know. It drove me nuts that as I hit a hill at 70 mph the pressure would drop, that had to be an issue, right? Well no codes, and nothing to know if it was normal or not. Now that we can at least see the maps for OEM pressure there is a start, but on the 03-04 we only know what the HO sea level map looks like, nothing for increased altitude or SO/Cali.

This is the 04.5-07 rail pressure map.

This is the 03-04 HO rail pressure map.

As you can see it's not smooth or predictable, so really without carrying that with you and a tool to tell you engine load the RP gauge doesn't do much for diagnosing pressure issues, unless its really far out and then you should get a CEL.

I built this map for truck with UDC, and the RP gauge still doesn't tell me if there is an issue and this is an easier to read/predictable map.

[cajflynn]

When I had the wts issues I didn't get always get codes. This was true for my 05 and my 06. I was not comparing a fp gauge to anything. I don't think a fp gauge is necessary for what I do. I have had injectors stick open and I have had injection lines burst. A rp gauge might have alerted a higher than normal spike in pressure before the line broke. If it had I would have saved myself 1/2 day stuck on the side of the road in Des Moines. This broken injection lines also set off the wts light.The FP guage does not tell you why pressures are high or low. My fp guage cant tell the difference between a bad electrical connection and a dirty filter so I am unsure of your line of thinking there. Neither gauge gives any answers. My original suggestion was a rp gauge would be more useful than a fp guage in a CR. I continue to think that way because the rp guage can alert you too spikes in pressure before you crack an injector and a fp guage can't. I have half 600k miles driven between my two common rails. I have blown injectors, had multiple injectors stick open and blown injection lines. I have never had a low pressure issue that was anything other than a filter.

[AH64ID]

Which injector line blew? Was it #4? If so that's a common issue that has nothing to do with pressure spikes, but the #4 line clamp. Many people, including myself, carry a spare for #4.

I don't disagree that a RP is a bad idea, but most likely none of the failures you indicated would be diagnosed or noticed ahead of time with a RP gauge, or a LP gauge for that matter. By the time the RP gauge tells you something is wrong with a injector, such as stuck open, it's too late. Even then at low load the RP gauge may not indicate anything.

You said a RP gauge is more useful for diagnostics than a LP, and that's what I disagree with. Most issues cannot be seen by a RP gauge, and the most common issues that can be caught ahead of time would be caught on the LP side.

Like I said, neither is critical for a CR at stock-mid power levels. But common issues, such as LP failing, gelling fuel, or plugged filters will be noticed on the LP gauge first giving you time to correct the issue before CP3 damage may occur. Common HPCR issues will not generally show on the RP gauge as the pressure rises/falls too much, the FCA can keep up with demands from minor high pressure leaks, and injector issues are not always RP related (especially if the RP is within stock pressures). Really very few failures could be detected with a RP gauge.

I have had both for several years now, thou not nearly as many miles, and the only gauge that has told me anything was awry has been the LP gauge. The RP is more of a fun gauge, until you get into the big hp and fueling trucks, IMHO.

Do you have dirty electrical connections often? I have only had two gauges give me faulty readings of the last 5 years, one pyro and my analog RP gauge. Neither was from poor connections, the pyro stepper motor was failing and the RP was plauged like every other RP gauge from pricol, inaccurate after a hour or more of driving.

Again, talking a purely diagnostic side. I like having rail pressure, but I also like having fuel pressure and if I was only able to run one it would be fuel pressure.

[Jim 5150]

Bought the smarty jr with a edge insight cs. will be here in 4 days. Guess I will see if the smarty jr is as good as everyone says in a few days