Two stroke oil and CR injectors

[angus]

I was just checking out the $ for CR injectors @ thourobred diesel:spend:and I just made a late new years resolution to run two stroke oil religiously in all my diesel engines... I know there has been a great deal of discussion about this subject on this forum, but is there actually any technical data that links fuel lubricant to injector longivity?

[Mopar1973Man]

In you case I would say its more filtration.

[angus]

In you case I would say its more filtration.

Hey Mike, My 03 just has 150K right now, and she`s running perfect. I have been eyeballing these FASS platinum lift pumps with the water seperator, and the spin on filter.. which they claim goes down to 3 microns. I guess I`m kind of a worry wart, and I`m always looking for ways to head off that unexpected" kick in the pants" we all run into

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok...As for filtration you want to talk to AH64ID he's a guru on filters of all types.As for the 2 cycle oil for 3rd Gen's I would talk to Dorkweed. He's been using it for quite a while and no issues.

[angus]

Ok... As for filtration you want to talk to AH64ID he's a guru on filters of all types. As for the 2 cycle oil for 3rd Gen's I would talk to Dorkweed. He's been using it for quite a while and no issues.

Dorkweed seemed to be indicating in another thread that there may be an expected life span for CR injectors?? Say maybe after 250K we are living on borrowed time.. I`m wondering what other readers thoughts are about the stock filtration system on 3rd gens... Are there superior filters out there for the stock canister?? or is stepping up to a system like the FASS platinum the only way to upgrade?

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm not a CR engine but I'm living on barrowed time now. Typically the old rule of thumb was 100K miles for a VP44 I'm at 158K miles on my VP44. I'm running a AirDog 150 with Donaldson 3 micron filter and 10 micron filter Fleetguard filter in the stock can. I can say without a doubt the filtration helps. I'm roughly 30K miles on the Donaldson filters and closer to 50K on the Fleetguard (just getting dark colored). There are 3 things that kill VP44s... 1. Lubricity of the fuel (<450 HFRR) 2. Fuel pressure (14-20 PSI) 3. Filtration 2-3 micron (Optimal) So back to CR fuel systems. I would consider doing some of AH64ID mods. http://articles.mopar1973man.com/3rd-generation-dodge-cummins/55-fuel-system/116-additional-fuel-filter-install-on-a-3rd-gen

[dorkweed]

Been 2 stroking since 2006. Go over to CF and find my thread entitled,"First Time w/2stroke". For years that was the largest and longest lived thread there even though the moderators there were totally against it.......................remember Mike????I also run a 2 micron fuel filter after the 7 micron filter in the OEM canister. Clean fuel is a must in the CR's due to the high pressures and tight tolerances. AH64ID can give you the specs on secondary filtration.I run 1/2oz. 2 stroke oil per 1 gallon of diesel; or what I usually do is dump 16oz. in my tank when I fill up, as I usually fill up with about 31-32+ gallons of diesel. I get no value by running more 2 stroke in my CR. I'd recommend you start there and run a tank; then experiment up or down if you want.2 stroke is the only fuel additive I've used since 2006 also. No injectors cleaners, sea foam, anti-gel stuff etc.

[angus]

Been 2 stroking since 2006. Go over to CF and find my thread entitled,"First Time w/2stroke". For years that was the largest and longest lived thread there even though the moderators there were totally against it.......................remember Mike????

I also run a 2 micron fuel filter after the 7 micron filter in the OEM canister. Clean fuel is a must in the CR's due to the high pressures and tight tolerances. AH64ID can give you the specs on secondary filtration.

I run 1/2oz. 2 stroke oil per 1 gallon of diesel; or what I usually do is dump 16oz. in my tank when I fill up, as I usually fill up with about 31-32+ gallons of diesel. I get no value by running more 2 stroke in my CR. I'd recommend you start there and run a tank; then experiment up or down if you want.

2 stroke is the only fuel additive I've used since 2006 also. No injectors cleaners, sea foam, anti-gel stuff etc.

Dorkweed.. Just curious, How did you route through the stock canister first n then to a 2 micron filter?

I was checking out AH64ID`s set up that Mike posted where he used a remote mounted Cat filter n then to the stock OEM.

I can see some advantage to looping through the 7 micron OEM first, but it looks like it will reqire some creative plumbing..

- - - Updated - - -

This is what I`ve been thinking about..http://www.genosgarage.com/FASS-95-TITANIUM-FUEL-PUMP-AND-FLTR-KIT-985-04/productinfo/FASS_T_D08_095G/

[dorkweed]

Dorkweed.. Just curious, How did you route through the stock canister first n then to a 2 micron filter?

I was checking out AH64ID`s set up that Mike posted where he used a remote mounted Cat filter n then to the stock OEM.

I can see some advantage to looping through the 7 micron OEM first, but it looks like it will reqire some creative plumbing..

- - - Updated - - -

This is what I`ve been thinking about..http://www.genosgarage.com/FASS-95-TITANIUM-FUEL-PUMP-AND-FLTR-KIT-985-04/productinfo/FASS_T_D08_095G/

MY 2 micron secondary filter is from GDP.......Glacier Diesel Power. Richard the owner is a great guy and a fountain of knowledge. Here's a picture of the set up.

[angus]

MY 2 micron secondary filter is from GDP.......Glacier Diesel Power. Richard the owner is a great guy and a fountain of knowledge. Here's a picture of the set up.

I like your setup :thumb1:Thats a neat location for the secondary filter... How good does the GDP lift pump perform?? On another note.. I was trolling around Wally world this morning, and after checking prices for two stroke oil by the gallon "$20" low end.. I noticed they had gallon jugs of Marvel Mystery oil for $13.95.. I`m gonna run that @ 16oz per tank for awhile and see how it goes.

[98whitelightnin]

You have to look in the motor oil section at Walmart, not the boat oil section. Super tech is $12.99 and is in a blue gallon jug. GDP does not make a lift pump, it's just the filter base and filter setup. The best filter available for the stock filter housing is the Baldwin pf7977, it's rated at 5 microns.

[dorkweed]

MMO is not one of Mikes recommended additives. It actually performs quite poorly as a lubricant. It's essentially "Stoddard solvent" IIRC. Not good for CP3's, injectors or LP's.

[Mopar1973Man]

MMO... Bad stuff. Bosch requires <450 HFRR for optimal fuel life today's fuel is at least 520.

There is Bosch's test on fuel..

[angus]

:doh:Ahh... Looks like MMO is more suited for a crankcase flush... I looked high n low at our local Wally and could`nt find the super tech.. at least not by the gallon. I might have to check one of the Joplin MO. stores.I googled FPPF additives, and they go $10.95 a quart if you buy 12 QT?? Thats substancially higher price than two stroke but the mix ratio is 1/3 what the super tech was.Thats still a slightly higher cost per tank to get you under to 439 HFRR.. The two stroke is a substancial improvement over base ULSD.Where the heck do you find 2%soy power biodiesel anyway LOL!Check that.. There is a supplier 85 miles away in Springfield Missouri. So mixing 2% biodiesel @ 50.1 gets the ultimate lubricity.Might be worth taking a couple barrels next time I`m headed that way

[Mopar1973Man]

The only power with BioDiesel is the lower BTU content so your MPG's will be lower and you need more fuel to travel the same distance. Same problem that ethanol have in gassers. Then on the Biodiesel side the gel point is much higher so if you cold country you take a risk of gelling up sooner. When it does gel the bio part of the diesel will separate and sink to the bottom like solid bacon grease in a frying pan. So be careful with Bio till spring.

[dorkweed]

The only power with BioDiesel is the lower BTU content so your MPG's will be lower and you need more fuel to travel the same distance. Same problem that ethanol have in gassers. Then on the Biodiesel side the gel point is much higher so if you cold country you take a risk of gelling up sooner. When it does gel the bio part of the diesel will separate and sink to the bottom like solid bacon grease in a frying pan. So be careful with Bio till spring.

Woke up to -6*F at the house this AM. Needless to say, it's too cold to shoe horses today!!! Anyhow Michael, almost all the diesel I buy around here is bio-blended. One pump sticker I see says 5-11%bio...............and another says it may contain up to 20% bio. So it's variable diesel around here. The various companies are probably formulating it based on the price of both the dino diesel and the bio-diesel to maximize profit. Oops.....I said a bad word according to the guy in the White House. Minnesota mandates 2% bio in all diesel sold up there. Gets pretty cold there, and I've not ever heard of a rash of gelling there. I've never had a gelling problem around here since the bio-diesel started coming out. Now my truck is garage kept over night usually, but I've driven hundreds of miles straight in below 0*F weather without issues with bio.............and my truck has sat outside for as long as 10 hours in -15*F.............the only additive being my 16oz of 2 stroke. They must be adding something or changing the chemical make up of the bio to keep it from gelling.

[AH64ID]

I ran 2 stroke in my truck for about 8K miles a few years ago. I saw no benefit from it, but it did make my exhaust brake slow to engage. 2 tanks after stopping it's use the EB was back to normal. So I no longer run it, I just use Amsoil ADF in every tank. As for filtration, the stock filter on your 03 was 10um, that caused a lot of injector issues so it was upgraded to 7um. I have talked to Bosch and they want 5um filtration. The only filter, for the OEM canister, that goes to 5um is the Baldwin PF7977, so run it. As for additional filtration I don't think you can beat the GDP MK2+ with a Donaldson P551313, it's rated at 3um. If you talk to some of the CP3 guys, like Todd at T&C, he sees a lot of water/rust issues. I run a Baldwin BF1212 to have 2 f/w seps on the truck. I never drain any water, but want the protection.HPCR's need clean fuel, and lubricated fuel.The FASS is a good system, it's too bad that neither FASS or AD make a setup with dual 1-14" threads thou.

[angus]

I ran 2 stroke in my truck for about 8K miles a few years ago. I saw no benefit from it, but it did make my exhaust brake slow to engage. 2 tanks after stopping it's use the EB was back to normal. So I no longer run it, I just use Amsoil ADF in every tank. As for filtration, the stock filter on your 03 was 10um, that caused a lot of injector issues so it was upgraded to 7um. I have talked to Bosch and they want 5um filtration. The only filter, for the OEM canister, that goes to 5um is the Baldwin PF7977, so run it. As for additional filtration I don't think you can beat the GDP MK2+ with a Donaldson P551313, it's rated at 3um. If you talk to some of the CP3 guys, like Todd at T&C, he sees a lot of water/rust issues. I run a Baldwin BF1212 to have 2 f/w seps on the truck. I never drain any water, but want the protection. HPCR's need clean fuel, and lubricated fuel. The FASS is a good system, it's too bad that neither FASS or AD make a setup with dual 1-14" threads thou.

Thanks John, I`ve been running a Napa gold filter for awhile now which they claim are manufactured by Wix. I`m gonna take your advice, and use the baldwin PF7977 until I can afford to upgrade the entire system. On the Bio diesel.. I talked to a guy at a local AG fertilizer business, and they sell off road bio diesel preblended, or they sell B99 Soy oil for $3.49 a gallon. He said they recommend no more than a 2% blend in cold weather applications or there could be gelling issues. He also said to plan on changing the fuel filter soon after starting Bio because it will flush everything in your fuel system. Somebody check my math here.. a 50.1 ratio would be around two qts for a 26 gallon fill up right?? Claims of a 66% increase in lubricity are hard to ignore.

[AH64ID]

Good call on ditching the Wix, they are rated at 8um absolute which means they don't meet the min spec published by Dodge of 7um. Wix's comments when I asked why they offer a product that doesn't meet spec was, "do you know how small a micron is?".... WOW, just WOW...The only time I have ever gelled was on B20, it was -4° out on treated fuel. I was running winter fuel at -20° this weekend without issue. Yes, really close to 50:1.. That's a lot of oil for a diesel. I think most guys run about 1oz per gallon, or 128:1.

[silverhocummins]

HiI was thinking of using amsoil synthetic 2 stroke. Any thoughts? I dont see it on the chart to compare the numbers.