Help me understand my analysis

[hex0rz]

Got an SOS kit through CAT rental. Got the results back. Need help understanding the numbers...Lead: 1Copper: 2Iron: 23Chrome: 2Tin: 0 Nickel: 0Silver: 0Alumium: 11Silicon: 39Sodium: 10Potassium: 1Moly: 92Barium: 0Calcium: 1491Magnesium: 385Phosphorus: 1235Zinc: 1233Soot: 7Oxidation: 19Nitration: 9Sulfation: 22Visc 100c: 13.4Glycol: N/AFuel: N/AWater: NegativeDelo 400LE 15w40Comments: High Silicon indicates dirt entry into system. If you have already changed your oil, resample in 3k miles.What are the numbers measured in? PPM? Also, what do they mean dirt in system? How does this lead to a high silicon number? Do I need to changed my oil?

[bry1216]

Got an SOS kit through CAT rental. Got the results back. Need help understanding the numbers... Lead: 1 Copper: 2 Iron: 23 Chrome: 2 Tin: 0 Nickel: 0 Silver: 0 Alumium: 11 Silicon: 39 Sodium: 10 Potassium: 1 Moly: 92 Barium: 0 Calcium: 1491 Magnesium: 385 Phosphorus: 1235 Zinc: 1233 Soot: 7 Oxidation: 19 Nitration: 9 Sulfation: 22 Visc 100c: 13.4 Glycol: N/A Fuel: N/A Water: Negative Delo 400LE 15w40 Comments: High Silicon indicates dirt entry into system. If you have already changed your oil, resample in 3k miles. What are the numbers measured in? PPM? Also, what do they mean dirt in system? How does this lead to a high silicon number? Do I need to changed my oil?

Let me just say I would never use Delo 400 LE (see attachment) [ATTACH]5511[/ATTACH] Let's be reserve about the data. Your Silicon, Molybdenum, Magnesium, Phosphorus, Zinc are a little high, but how many miles are on the oil change and did you spin a new filter and add oil between oil changes? I always send my oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories and ask for a TBN result (TBN tells if your oil is spent). All oil types have a TBN number and it is very important not to exceed this number to zero: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/spectrometry-the-marvel-of-the-lab.php Information for high Potassium and Sodium are signs of coolant in oil, but you are not showing this. It seems you have ring and cylinder wall wear, could it be possible you have using excessive rpm's or towing very heavy loads? This leads to how many miles on the engine? Look for an air intake leak, tear in an air filter or something else with the air filter.....

58 Lube Oil Analysis Compare.pdf

[AH64ID]

I am not sure I agree with bry1216 analysis of your analysis. You appear to need a different air filter, that's the normal cause for high silicone. Based on this I would change the oil and air filter.Most of those are PPM, but some are not, like soot is not but without seeing the sheet or calling cat you may not know the unit of measure. Your wear metals are all fine, Iron is the highest but not even something to think about yet. Aluminum is a little higher than I would expect for the other wear metals being low, and that can be from the higher silicone. Phosphorus and Moly are a little higher than the virgin LE samples I have seen, but Magnesium and Zinc are lower than new oil. The TDR samples show similar (±100 ppm, except Moly, which is almost 500ppm higher with the TDR results). Either way I don't think any of them are high considering they are additives and not wear indicators. I don't see anything showing cylinder wall wear or ring wear, your oxidation and nitration are low and they would not be with those two things. The viscosity is lower than expected, but the sample doesn't show any fuel (or they didn't test for it based on viscosity, which is common). I personally use OAI testing because that's who the several Cummins regional centers I have called recommend. I have used Blackstone before and wasn't impressed with them, nor the fact that TBN costs more money than a normal test and I feel TBN is mandatory. I have also used a company in Spokane, don't recall the name, and they were okay but like I said, OAI is Cummins recommended.

[98whitelightnin]

The problem with that old TDR analysis is, it was done when CI4 was readily available and CJ4 was just hitting the streets. You can only find CI4 in a few different jugs last time I checked and it may all be CJ4 now. I know CAT, amsoil and mystic used to be the only CI4 still available but that was back in 2009-2010. They need to get another test together with the oil we have now.

[Wild and Free]

Got an SOS kit through CAT rental. Got the results back. Need help understanding the numbers... Delo 400LE 15w40 Comments: High Silicon indicates dirt entry into system. If you have already changed your oil, resample in 3k miles. What are the numbers measured in? PPM? Also, what do they mean dirt in system? How does this lead to a high silicon number? Do I need to changed my oil?

AH64 summed it up pretty well, Silicon is very fine dirt "Micro dust" my term to clarify your question. As AH said time for a new air filter, I saw very high silicon when I had a K&N filter on my 02 and it was climbing for a few samples until I ditched it for an AFE system and the silicon disappeared. Another way to get it in the sample if indeed you have a good air system is how did you take the sample? Many many samples are contaminated during the sampling process if done carelessly or the wrong way to take care not to get any dirt in the oil. I attached a pic of what oil guidelines are from OAI, it gives a good description of normal good and bad numbers for a few of the items you are looking at. Click on it a couple times to magnify it up to a readable size, I will include a pic of what the OAI report looks like. I deal with CAT SOS samples every day.

[ISX]

Can someone explain this silicon thing? I mean silicon is a metal so how does a crappy air filter increase it? Would think it would just let in more oxygen Apparently there is something to be learned here.

[Wild and Free]

Can someone explain this silicon thing? I mean silicon is a metal so how does a crappy air filter increase it? Would think it would just let in more oxygen Apparently there is something to be learned here.

Silicon is the finest form of dirt dust whatever you want to call it, it is super fine, if you have a bad air filter or loose connections on the intake system it lets the super fine dust or silicon through which fills the small pores in the cylinder liner and picked up by the oil film and carried directly into the system. Its every where! lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

[ISX]

Well I'll be damned. Thanks for the explanation.

[bry1216]

AH64 summed it up pretty well, Silicon is very fine dirt "Micro dust" my term to clarify your question. As AH said time for a new air filter, I saw very high silicon when I had a K&N filter on my 02 and it was climbing for a few samples until I ditched it for an AFE system and the silicon disappeared. Another way to get it in the sample if indeed you have a good air system is how did you take the sample? Many many samples are contaminated during the sampling process if done carelessly or the wrong way to take care not to get any dirt in the oil. I attached a pic of what oil guidelines are from OAI, it gives a good description of normal good and bad numbers for a few of the items you are looking at. Click on it a couple times to magnify it up to a readable size, I will include a pic of what the OAI report looks like. I deal with CAT SOS samples every day.

If this is a complete OAI report, it is not really complete. Check out the information in the Blackstone Report attached. Notice the Unit/Location Averages, Universal Averages and reference to previous communications. Side note this is analysis of conventional oil - no blends and no synthetics.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a test of air filters - K&N is not very good. http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files1/Spicer%20Filter%20Testing/Spicer_Filter_Testing.html

[Wild and Free]

If this is a complete OAI report, it is not really complete. Check out the information in the Blackstone Report attached.[ATTACH=CONFIG]5522[/ATTACH] Notice the Unit/Location Averages, Universal Averages and reference to previous communications. Side note this is analysis of conventional oil - no blends and no synthetics.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a test of air filters - K&N is not very good. http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files1/Spicer%20Filter%20Testing/Spicer_Filter_Testing.html

If you are comparing yours to mine, I have no unit average as this was the first sample for that rig, as I continue the previous results are listed in order of the sample so you can look down the list from newest to oldest and see everything not just the average. As far as universal average that is a pretty broad and basically useless comparison in my book not knowing exactly what they are averaging. Every fleet is going to be different and every piece of equipment is going to be different, one is looking for issues with the one individual unit that is being sampled, as I said I deal with a few dozen samples every week as part of my job, we use CAT SOS only and they too do the same as AOI and show the results of about the last 10 samples directly under the current sample so you can see exactly what has changed, not just an average. I learned about the K&N first hand with my own sampling on my 02 cummins and upon seeing the cumulative results did some checking and found others had similar issues, that was about 8 years ago. I try to tell as many people as I can to stay away from K&N ever since.

[AH64ID]

Check out the information in the Blackstone Report attached

I have used Blackstone on multiple occasions with multiple vehicles, and like I said I wasn't impressed, especially if you have to call and talk to them. It's like they read from a script and have no real knowledge of what the report is telling them. I also think the averages are eyewash, but that's just me. The "should be" column is nice, but OAI also provides that. OAI also shows you all of your samples. When I pull mine up it shows the last 6 samples. Some people really like Blackstone, but it's less results for the same money or more money for the same results.

. I deal with CAT SOS samples every day.

What is your preference? What do you use for your personal truck?

[Wild and Free]

I have used Blackstone on multiple occasions with multiple vehicles, and like I said I wasn't impressed, especially if you have to call and talk to them. It's like they read from a script and have no real knowledge of what the report is telling them. I also think the averages are eyewash, but that's just me. The "should be" column is nice, but OAI also provides that. OAI also shows you all of your samples. When I pull mine up it shows the last 6 samples. Some people really like Blackstone, but it's less results for the same money or more money for the same results. What is your preference? What do you use for your personal truck?

I think that CAT SOS and OAI are almost identical in most ways they way they present and lay out the info as well as the amount of info, I would say it is a wash either way. I use OAI for all of my personal stuff just because I am tied into Amsoil as a dealer. If not for that I would use CAT SOS as it is local right in Bismarck, we also have a MVTL lab right in Bismarck, I have not used them personally but the last coal mine I worked at used them for a lot of non Cat equipment, I have never seen one of their reports so can't comment on the info they present.

[hex0rz]

Alright, the whole CI-4 Cj-4 designation thing does not make sense to me. What is important about the difference?I'm not sure what you mean about high rpms? Like frequent redlining of the engine? I do not hot rod it like a rice car, but yes I do occassionally goose it. It does not even get near 3k rpms though. I have not towed heavy the least bit with this truck yet.Is there a way to get a leakdown test for the air intake? I've made up my own boost cap, but the last time I played with that was last year. My boost has never gone above 30psi.I will do an oil change, hopefully today. But as far as air filter goes, I can't see why I would need a new air filter? I have a BHAF that I bought no more than 2 years ago. Probably about 1 1/2 years ago. Its got a filter cover for it. I have the filter minder on it and the filter minder has not said it needs change. I understand that it is only for restriction of flow and not a leak.Who is OAI? Does CAT's SOS analysis do the TBN? What is TBN?I did have a K&N filter before my BHAF. I did recognize that it did leave things behind in my intake system. I was not really able to clean it out. I'm sure it has left quit a bit in my air intake as there is obviously alot to the intake system.I obtained the oil sample through the drain plug of the oil pan. Unscrewed it a little bit and collected it by a few drops a second. The CAT guy never told me about possible contamination, so I never thought it could be a problem. It came with a plastic line, but what the heck 'am I gonna do with that?So, do I have an engine thats on its way out?

[AH64ID]

Alright, the whole CI-4 Cj-4 designation thing does not make sense to me. What is important about the difference?

CJ-4 is low ash oil desinged for ULSD motors, it has some different properties than the CI-4 that was the best oil just prior to ULSD. CI-4 is getting harder to find, but I still run it.

I'm not sure what you mean about high rpms? Like frequent redlining of the engine? I do not hot rod it like a rice car, but yes I do occassionally goose it. It does not even get near 3k rpms though. I have not towed heavy the least bit with this truck yet.

Disreguard the info in post #2 about your motor, the "analysis" does not match your report.

I can't see why I would need a new air filter? I have a BHAF that I bought no more than 2 years ago. Probably about 1 1/2 years ago. Its got a filter cover for it. I have the filter minder on it and the filter minder has not said it needs change. I understand that it is only for restriction of flow and not a leak.

Just because it's not sucking the filter minder down doesn't mean it's filtering properly. It could have a small tear in it, or just be a lousy filter. But based on your comments below I am not 100% convinced the filter is the culprit, I think it was your sampling method. I would still change the oil and air filter just to be sure. Many BHAF's are paper media, and I don't think paper filters should be run that long, even if they show no restriction.

Who is OAI? Does CAT's SOS analysis do the TBN? What is TBN?

Oil Analyzers Inc. TBN is total base number, it's the oils ability to fight the acidity from combustion. When the TBN gets to 1/2 of the new number the oil is starting to get old, try not to run oil with a TBN of less than 2. The higher the TBN is new the longer the oil can last, not subject to contaminates.

I obtained the oil sample through the drain plug of the oil pan. Unscrewed it a little bit and collected it by a few drops a second. The CAT guy never told me about possible contamination, so I never thought it could be a problem. It came with a plastic line, but what the heck 'am I gonna do with that?

That is probably where your silicon came from, there is a lot of dirt on the bottom of an oil pan. That sample is not a good one. But I would still change the oil and start over, and get a way to draw oil installed.

So, do I have an engine thats on its way out?

Absoloutly not, nothing other than silicon is even worth raising an eyebrow to.

[hex0rz]

GOOD! I was hoping you would say that.I wanna switch to AmSoil this time for my oil. Need to know which one to get though. They say Cj-4, so can I still use it? Should I get 5w-40 or 15w-40?

[Mopar1973Man]

Silicon is the finest form of dirt dust whatever you want to call it, it is super fine, if you have a bad air filter or loose connections on the intake system it lets the super fine dust or silicon through which fills the small pores in the cylinder liner and picked up by the oil film and carried directly into the system. Its every where! lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

Right on the money. I was going to mention the fact of the oil that is sprayed in the bottom of the piston keeps the cylinder walls wet with oil and the piston doesn't wipe it completely dry. So the fine dust is collected on the cylinder walls as well as blown passed the rings in the compression / ignition stroke. This is one of the few reasons I typically suggest against a washable media filter. Washable media filter are good right out of the box and are going to filter just fine. But after 10-20 washings of the media how good is it now? How much higher is the micron rating of the filter? I have NEVER seen a washable media air filter retested after 100, 200, 500, 1000 washings and show ratings again. I can bet money that most washable media start losing filter effectiveness after 10-20 or so washings but the truck owner has no clue because he can't test the filter at home.

[Wild and Free]

This should help answer a lot of questions on how to pull an oil sample the clean and correct way. http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/7847-Oil-Sample-tooling