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Kotta390

Diesel fuel, School me!

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Ok, so I keep hearing about #1 and #2 diesel. Also certain stations are containing 5-20% bio diesel fuel. If I am out running around at any particular day of the year what do I need to look for in fuel when it comes to any of this? I know there is a summer and winter blend but do not know the difference. What do I need to watch out for at the pumps? Sorry for the noob question, I just want to be on the right path and this way I can pick my fuel stations to fill up at when I need to or at least know what I am looking at when I fill up anywhere.

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#1 Diesel is closer to the kerosene family also higher in cetane and lower in BTU's. Most have noticed the engine noise is much greater.

 

#2 Diesel is typically what most get.

 

BioDiesel all I can say is be careful. Biodiesel is not like diesel when it gels. The animal/veggie fats can separate from the petroleum product and settle to the bottom. Then dealing with that typically most anti-gel products don't work on animal/veggie fats but petroleum paraffin wax.

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So in all honesty I need to try and get #2 diesel at all costs and stay away from bio diesel in the colder parts of the year? Since this is my first diesel and I have only filled it up once at the pump, will every pump tell me which "#" of diesel it is ?

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Well you should base you fuel on what you expect for climate. If your expecting really cold temps in the minus then I would be looking towards getting #1 Diesel. If your mild kind of like myself you can run Winterized #2 Diesel. If its summer time and cold weather is less likely I would opt for the BioDiesel. If you had for facts on the BioDiesel being sold and its cloud and pour point temps then I would consider its use for colder weather.

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Well you should base you fuel on what you expect for climate. If your expecting really cold temps in the minus then I would be looking towards getting #1 Diesel. If your mild kind of like myself you can run Winterized #2 Diesel. If its summer time and cold weather is less likely I would opt for the BioDiesel. If you had for facts on the BioDiesel being sold and its cloud and pour point temps then I would consider its use for colder weather.

 

Oh ok, I for some reason was thinking #1 diesel was like Jet A in that it is like kerosene but super dry. Since it doesn't really get below 25F in the winter here I am thinking #2 diesel will be fine then. Problem is I don't have any bio diesel stations next to me for about 40 miles.

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First off what pat of the country do you call home and secondly what are the coldest temps you see where you are at?

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First off what pat of the country do you call home and secondly what are the coldest temps you see where you are at?

 

 

Central Texas, and normally we do not see anything below 20-25F in the coldest parts of winter. 

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Central Texas, and normally we do not see anything below 20-25F in the coldest parts of winter. 

 

 

That's still T-shirt weather here!!! :sofa:  Don't even know if you could find #1 diesel there.

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Central Texas, and normally we do not see anything below 20-25F in the coldest parts of winter. 

 

 

That's still T-shirt weather here!!! :sofa:  Don't even know if you could find #1 diesel there.

 

#1 Diesel is normally found in Northern states and up into Canada... Good catch W&F...

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You should never see the need for any winterized fuel or the need for any #1 in your area, if anything a good fuel additive would be plenty to get you through any cold spell you may get short term.

Edited by Wild and Free

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Yep, all you should really ever be getting around your parts is #2 and bio-diesel. Bio-diesel can be a real iffy thing. Be careful with that aspect. Some places have atleast 5% bio in their fuel, but it will be stated what % they have if any. B99 or B100 is almost all bio-diesel and be careful if you find it and use it. Your truck should be okay using it, but also consider it will clean your fuel system so well that it may plug your fuel filters. As well, newer trucks, some cannot handle any blend of bio. If the fuel has been sitting in the store tanks or your tank, you also may develop an algea in your fuel from the bio-diesel. There are products out there to prevent this or cure it, but you may be left stranded.

 

NEVER fill up at a truckers pump. The fuel lines are bigger and have a higher flow rate. It may be cool to fill up with the big boys, but you may end up paying for it! Just go to a local, regular fuel station for small vehicles and get your diesel there.

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I have the rare chance to get to use them but I've never had any issues other than the spit back it can do. Lot of time the fuel is flowing so fast and foams up the tank pretty good and when it rushes back out the filler neck it can make a huge mess. Then if you trying to top off it tend to be really hard to flow slowly to top off the tank. BURP! Again down the side of your truck.

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here in AZ it's off road only. farm and tractors. you have to provide some proof that it's for a tractor. else the two places i tried wouldnt sell me none

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My work takes me to many different places and using the same station all the time is a no go for me. I do tend to stick with station brands as long as they are available, if not you gotta take what you can get sometimes. I have used the high and low flow at most of them. Knock on wood, I have had any problems in the 12 years I have the truck. No excessive fuel filter changes either.

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North American Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel Properties
Engine manufacturers support the introduction and use of ultra low sulfur diesel
(“ULSD”) fuels (i.e., fuel < 15 ppm sulfur) having uniform properties. Specifically, the Engine 
Manufacturers Association recommends that, at a minimum, all ULSD fuel distributed in North 
America meet the requirements of ASTM D 975, as well as the following additional performance 
requirements:
(i) Cetane. Using ASTM D 613, ULSD fuel should have a minimum cetane number 
of 43. Although ASTM D975 currently requires a minimum cetane number of 40, EMA has 
asked ASTM to revise the standard to require a minimum cetane number of 43. EMA and its 
members believe such an increase will improve the sociability aspects of diesel fuel 
performance, such as white smoke, engine starting and engine combustion noise. 
(ii) Lubricity. Regardless of the fuel sulfur level, ASTM D975 currently requires 
lubricity specified as a maximum wear scar diameter of 520 micrometers using the HFRR test 
method (ASTM D6079) at a temperature of 60°C. Based on testing conducted on ULSD fuels, 
however, fuel injection equipment manufacturers have required that ULSD fuels have a
maximum wear scar diameter of 460 micrometers. EMA recommends that the lubricity 
specification be consistent with the fuel injection equipment manufacturers’ recommendation.
(iii) Thermal Stability. ASTM D975 does not include a specification for thermal 
stability; however, the standard does include thermal stability guidelines for normal and severe 
use. For severe use, the guideline indicates that fuel should have a minimum of 80% reflectance 
after aging for 180 minutes at a temperature of 150°C when tested per ASTM D6468. EMA 
recommends that this severe use guideline for thermal stability apply to all diesel fuels. The 
requirement is particularly important with respect to ULSD fuels, however, inasmuch as the 
natural thermal stability of diesel fuel is expected to decrease as sulfur is removed during the 
refining process used to produce these fuels.
(iv) Oxidation Stability. ASTM D975 does not include a specification for oxidation 
stability. EMA recommends that all diesel fuel, regardless of sulfur level, provide a maximum of 
10 g/m3
 sediment level when tested per ASTM D2274. It is particularly important that ULSD 
fuels meet the requirement inasmuch as the natural anti-oxidation properties of diesel fuel are 
expected to decrease as sulfur is removed during the refining process. 
Finally, in considering ULSD fuel properties, it also is important to recognize the need to 
maintain the cleanliness of ULSD fuel from the time it leaves the refinery until it is delivered to 
the vehicle. Use of a filter smaller than five (5) microns at the point where the fuel is dispensed 
into the vehicle helps to assure the needed cleanliness.
August 18, 2005

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you are correct on the 'jet a' and kerosene comparison. very close cousins.

When my son was in Iraq and Afganistan, he said they had 1 fuel tank. it filled the Humvee's, tanks, helicopters, generators. He also said injection pump replacement on those hummvees was a constant battle. (dry fuel)

Funny story, I flew my son to San Antonio in late September to drive home my new Jeep diesel. He said when he filled it at the first fill up, the fuel smelled a little different than what we get up here. "fresher"???

My algae problem is closely tied with the suspended H20 issues, tied with my above ground storage tanks. Every day, my fuel will heat up in the sun, cool off at night. my tanks are 'breathing' air in and out every day... and eventually, there will be a little stripe of water on the bottom of the tank.. growing algae. First cold snap, it breaks loose, (or when the fuel truck dumps in a new load and stirs it up) and immediately plugs the filters.

Below ground storage guys don't have near the problems.

For you, I'd keep it #2 all year, and throw in a product for 'winterization'. Powerservice, Howes.. should work well for you.

Edited by rancherman
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I'd run biodiesel all winter if you lived in Texas or something.  Up north where you have to run basically kerosene in the truck to keep from gelling, you lose all your lube.  2 stroke oil gets it back but eh, its still kerosene.  Biodiesel is nothing but lube.  Obviously there is the gelling issues with it.  However, I ran B20 a few times one winter just fine and my truck absolutely loved it.  Because of the high cetane, it starts much easier/sooner in cold temps than regular diesel.  I mean it flat out just lights off in 1 crank.  I didn't notice hardly any MPG differences.  It was well worth it from my perspective.  If it got under 10F, I think I would be uneasy and start running regular diesel again.  So I wouldn't say it is something I would do in the dakotas where it might be 30 when you fill up but -20 by 6am.  Missouri sticks to around 30-40 as a high and 10-20 as a low so it worked pretty well.  It does get to -10 to -15 here sometimes so I had to keep an eye on the forecast to burn off all the biodiesel.  But the truck was very happy.  My lift pump starts ticking sometimes, even with 2 stroke.  When I load it up with biodiesel every tick goes away and it purrs. 

 

I would NOT run biodiesel in a common rail....  VP44 trucks aren't much different than a 12V, they use almost the same injectors.  You don't see VP44/P7100 trucks having injector issues because they are just too "loose" so stuff can pass through them.  Whereas a CR you end up with stuck injectors that wreak havoc and money.  I don't trust biodiesel to be that clean.  It might be, but until I had a way to do some tests on how clean it is, I wouldn't trust it in a CR.  

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