Extra Life Oil Filters

[skellyman]

Just wondering how many are using them ?

I used the Fleetguard 9009 on a N-14 and got oil changes out to 40,000 miles,

 I have been reading about the Fleetguard 9028 that will fit the 5.9 engine ,it was designed for Komatsu or Kubota Equipt. using the 5.9 Cummins.

Seems that Baldwin and Donaldson both offer them .

Cummins stratapore and stacked disk media was great in my N-14 , so any thoughts ?

[joecool911]

Will the additives in the oil last that long? With the Frantz oil filters you can probably go that long, but change paper every couple thousand and add a quart of oil to replenish additives. Nice thing is that it's all standing up in the hood where you're working.

[skellyman]

Yes , the oil will go out that far , at least the UOA's on my truck with Delvac will.

Edited February 18, 2014 by skellyman

[Ilikeoldfords]

If you were worried at all about the oil staying healthy for that long, you could always switch to synthetic. I thought there was a thread around here somewhere about someone using standard oil and filters and they went like 80k miles on it before changing or something like that.....

[skellyman]

From the UOA's I have the need for a syn - oil is not needed.

By the way I retired from a major oil company ,so I well understand oils , now I'm looking for filters that can keep up with the oil..

[joecool911]

Maybe someone can chime in with info you want. Sounds like you could really help us understand oil better. Good to have your knowledge here.

[skellyman]

Cross References

BALDWIN BD7317, BLAW KNOX 0016482100, CARQUEST 84620XE ,CARRIER TRANSICOLD 300046300, CUMMINS 3155618, CUMMINS 3865405, CUMMINS 3937145 ,FLEETGUARD LF16035, FLEETGUARD LF3552, FLEETGUARD LF9028, FODEN Y03753603 ,FRAM HPH3976A , Donaldson ELF 7349.

Here are a few I'm looking at.

[diesel4life]

My question is how can you tell at what point an oil filter quits filtering efficiently and becomes detrimental? Once a filter plugs off will it not go into bypass? I obviously am not the guy to answer your questions but it just seems risky to me. Fleetgaurd (Cummins) would be a good filter choice, but I would be surprised if you got any manufacture to promote those kind of miles between changes.

[Wild and Free]

Did you run the same filter and oil together for the whole 40K miles with no service at all or did you do regular filter changes and replenish the oil lost from the filter replacement?

 

Problem with oil analysis labs is they check the basics but none that I know of test whats left of the protective additives in the oil which is what is depleted over time even though the uoa looks fine plus as a filter gets used up as in plugged with normal material it actually filters better to the pointy it can filter out the additives themselves also, this is more so the case with certain finer micron bypass filters rather than full flow filters but  if using a quality full flow it will happen as well.

 

I ran 30K on a single oil change with my 02 but did regular filter changes, full flow every 5k and both full flow and bypass every 10k and added renewal oil to replace what was lost during the filter changes so my oil was all changed out already at the 30K mark.

 

Having worked at different shops over the years I knew a farmer who was a petro Canada oil dealer and ran their 15-40 synthetic for 1.3 million miles on a B series 3406 Cat with not a single oil drain only oil filter changes every 10k miles and he had me pull the pan and inspect the bearings at 1.3 million miles and the lower end of the engine looked like new, we actually put the stock bearings back up.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Wild and Free

[skellyman]

Great points , great questions , 

Lets go over them on the N-14, it used about 1/2gal per 10,000 miles and yes filter changed with standard filters at 10,000 , when I switched to the Cummins venturie filters the miles were increased to 20,000 per filter change,

The lab shows TBN and TAN on the reports in addition to normal wear metals. All were still in normal range , though soot levels were up which is why I looked for a better filter.

While some will now say add a bypass filter to handle the soot , I say why? and add oil lines that can leak or a housing that is hard to service in a akward location.

With the LF 9028 you have dual filtering , A small amount goes thru the stacked disk , in addition to the standard media with out a additional housing or remote oil lines.

Now, on the 5.9 I drive I'm seeing the same thing I did on the N-14. Filter will be changed makeup oil added , for now 5000 miles with standard filters . 

[Yankneck696]

Never done an analysis, but I do 4,000 mile filters & 12,000 changes.

 

Ed

[diesel4life]

I do periodic oil analysis on all my vehicles, it gives me a good idea of the general health of my engines and in some cases can show potential problems before they get out of control.

[Wild and Free]

I need to add to my prior post, the reason the additives are depleted is that they are designed to bond or bind to contaminants like soot and moisture which makes the particles or molecules bigger to the point that the filter can actually catch them and filer them out of circulation. As one sees soot climb in samples this is normal but also a part of the depletion of the additives. The primary additive that depletes is zinc phosphate and phosphate doesn't show on any analysis.

The stacked disc filters are designed to catch the moisture in the oil the way the oil flows through and down the media, I sat through several filter training classes and this design was about the best on the planet for getting moisture and sludge out of the oil and matched with the stratapore media was about a perfect combo.

The only thing that is better is a slinger.

 

When one looks at filter quality there was a trick I once saw, Take brand new filters and cut them open and then take a white clean towel with a bit of clean oil on it and then wipe it through the inside of the filter housing, there were only a few filters that came out clean a lot of them came out black from the fine metal residue you see on new iron, that was an eye opener.

Fleetgaurd/ CAT /Donaldson were the only ones to pass that quality test of the 10 or so common filter brands we cut open.

 

I have brought this up a few times in filter threads already when filter quality comes up.

You can have the best filtering media on the planet but if it only holds a little bit of contamination before it is plugged and thus bypasses what good did looking at the filter medias filtering capability when the capacity is even more important.

Some Filter companies don't want this info out there but when shopping for filters look for the "Sediment Index" of the filter, this is how much contamination a filter can hold before it is plugged, you will find this info either buried so deep in filter specs your chances of finding it will be slim or they do not post it at all but a few filter mfgs do post it up front.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Wild and Free

[skellyman]

W and F : you bring some great points , absolute rating of microns is important but grams of holding capacity is also very important , though few filter mfgr's show that info to the consumer.

As to use of the additive pack of the oil , I must admit I still have a inside track with the company I worked for and can have tests done on samples most labs don't , I do use Polaris labs most of the time for general UOA's.

But must admit in this case of wanting to extend out oil changes I am using the former employers lab in addition to Polaris  for my 5.9 engine.

In reference to Fleetguards filter and no metals in new filters I sat thru one of those classes in Indiana too.

[AH64ID]

Run a Donaldson ELF7349, it's rated for 25K miles. There also isn't a better filter that spins onto our trucks.

 

With modern filters there isn't much reason to change a filter before the oil, unless you are running extended drain intervals beyond 20-25K miles.

[skellyman]

 ELEMENT WARNING LIMITS COMMENTS

 

Iron (Fe) Greater than 100 ppm High levels indicate worn crankshafts, valves, cylinder-liner, bearings

 

Chromium (Cr) Greater than 10 ppm High levels indicate worn piston rings, bearings or contamination by antifreeze

 

Copper (Cu) Greater than 20 ppm High levels indicate worn bearings and bushings

 

Tin (Sn) Greater than 10 ppm High levels indicate worn bearings and bushings

 

Aluminum (Al) Greater than 20 ppm High levels indicate worn (>80 ppm Aluminum pistons or engine block Block Engines)

 

Lead (Pb) Greater than 25 ppm High levels indicate worn bearings. Where leaded gasoline used, results are meaningless

 

Boron (B) Greater than 20 ppm High levels indicate antifreeze leak. Some engine oils contain a boron dispersant 

additive. Check sample of new oil

 

Silicon (Si) Greater than 20 ppm High levels indicate presence of dust or sand. May also be due to high level of silicone anti-foam. Check sample of new oil

 

Magnesium (Mg), Calcium (Ca) These elements may be part Barium (Ba), Sodium (Na) of the additive package. Phosphorus (P), Zinc (Zn) They remain in the oil and do not deplete

 

These are examples of what limits to look for in samples.

[Wild and Free]

Your post seems to be jumbled up and out of order.

 

I can say from what we see a lot is that sodium indicates an antifreeze leak into the oil, the sodium usually starts to come up just before it throws a positive test for coolant.

[LiveOak]

I have been using the Baldwin BD7317 for a few years. No problems but I have not done any oil analysis either. I will be using this filter until a friend and I figure a way to install a Fleetguard/Cummins centrifugal filter.

[skellyman]

Just a quick update , using standard stratapore filters , out to 20,000 now UOA's still within limits.

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

Did you decide what filter to go with?