Suspension Upgrades

[MoparFreak1988]

So I am attempting to put together a good low buck lift I am not trying to clear anything more than a set of 35's at most but mainly I want to improve ride quality and retain stock geometry.

Now  I have a set of Thuren 4 inch coils laying around from a donor truck and was using that as a point to jump off the ledge on improving the suspension so unless I missed something to make these work right I will need for just the front suspension

1. new control arms 
2. drop pit-man arm
3. new adjustable or modified stock 3rd gen track bar(completely lost here I know what it does but don't know what is best for our trucks)
4. longer sway-bar end links or something to correct that
5. shocks

I believe that is it obviously the rear will be new leaf springs and shocks, as far as the front goes I was hoping to get input from people who have lifted their trucks and found what works and doesn't work.  I plan on grabbing new wheels and tires which haven't been ordered and I really don't know what type of wheel to run as it will be on there 24/7 365 come rain salt mud gravel snow or ice so I need to find a solution that will last and is not painted or powder coated black 

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

im running 35's with stock rear and 2"spacer up front.

[snowshoveler]

I am curious about the 4 inch over springs... are they from a diesel truck.

If a gasser they will not come anywhere close to the 4 inches, maybe 2 though and that could be just about right.

 I am also interested in the 3rd gen track bar setup. I need to do this myself in the future.

Pictures for us are everything.

Regards Chris

[hex0rz]

From what I've gathered be careful about springs too. If you do not know which ones they are the could be under rated for the truck.

[98whitelightnin]

I didn't know Don made a set of 4" coils for our truck. I had his 2" coils and they, along with his white body shocks were a nice improvement over stock. I had a BD adjustable 3rd gen style trackbar on my 98 and it was great. I put a Thuren adjustable track bar on my 05 and it was great too, it had a heim joint at one end as where the BD had rubber bushings at both ends. The BD was adjustable on the truck where the Thuren had to be unbolted at one end for adjustment.

[MoparFreak1988]

I didn't know Don made a set of 4" coils for our truck. I had his 2" coils and they, along with his white body shocks were a nice improvement over stock. I had a BD adjustable 3rd gen style trackbar on my 98 and it was great. I put a Thuren adjustable track bar on my 05 and it was great too, it had a heim joint at one end as where the BD had rubber bushings at both ends. The BD was adjustable on the truck where the Thuren had to be unbolted at one end for adjustment.

I stand corrected they are the 3 inch soft ride coils from Don I emailed my brother they are off his diesel ram that hit an immovable object(stump logging area) in the snow last year it was a work truck that had the front axle almost completely tore off so I have usable springs thats about it.  He said he ran stock control arms but the geometry and ride wasn't right he had a drop pit-man arm and i believe he had a third gen track bar is what he said

[Ilikeoldfords]

I am also running 35's on my truck with stock height in the rear and 2.5in spacers up front. Honestly I wouldnt want it any higher than it is already. I know a lot of people say that the spacers change the geometry to much but I havent had any of the problems like a lot of the other guys have had. 240k and the entire front end is stock apart from the spacers and an the track bar was replaced about 60k ago with a stock replacement. Still runs straight and true for the most part. The steering box is getting some slop in it but that is to be expected with this many miles on it.

[MoparFreak1988]

I guess my questions more come down to this

1. with those 35 inch tall tires how much off pavement time do you see
2. ever been at the point where a front tire has lifted from the ground or essentially maxed out the suspension travel
3. at max travel do you rub can you turn without rubbing
4. with that 2.5 inch spacer how many times in one year did you break a sway bar end link if at all?

My concerns are based off of this my truck is my daily driver I put good all terrains on my truck because last time it was in service it saw 70 percent of working time on undeveloped roads being logging, farm access, gravel, or new home development in farm fields.  I am a carpenter by trade but this truck sees most of the hard service from the fire department as well as up north when I am hunting and trapping for extra income. 

 

What I can tell you is that I have a bone stock suspension with 265/76/16 Genneral Grabber AT2's I got stuck 7 times to which I had to be pulled out going through the ditch or ruts I have often times "lifted" a tire be it front or rear often times when that happen I have rubbing somewhere along the line.  I run all moog suspension components installed by a competent shop that being said in one year I broke 5 total sway bar end links and only payed for the first set.  every time the design was a little different and our conclusion was the truck suspension was flexing more than the end links could take breaking the rod clean off the ball joint where the link attaches to the sway bar...

 

All I want is a system that will perform well without rubbing and without breaking things be it 33's or if possible 35's but the amount of flex this truck saw last time it was in service I am concerned about even trying to fit 35's  

Edited January 2, 2015 by MoparFreak1988

[Ilikeoldfords]

Well you got me there. My truck doesn't see much off road apart from forest service roads and some logging roads. I have gotten pretty crazy in some big holes but not really ever had a tire lift. The tires do rub a little on the control arms at full lock but have never contacted the body anywhere.

 

The spacers came on the truck when I bought it so I don't know what the difference before and after was like. I have never broken any suspension parts on this truck in the 65k miles that I have had it. The track bar was worn out so the previous owner had replaced it with a stock one. Other than that, never had any issues.

 

I am sure with some small wheel spacers I could solve the issue of rubbing on the control arms easy enough.

[Mopar1973Man]

I see lots of forestry roads but rare to get stuck. I'm not running over sized tires at all but 235/85 R16. I typically aim for a low budget AT tire like right now I've got HiFly's on. But again since I'm not running oversized tires I've not had most of the problems that owners with oversized tires typically do.

[MoparFreak1988]

I see lots of forestry roads but rare to get stuck. I'm not running over sized tires at all but 235/85 R16. I typically aim for a low budget AT tire like right now I've got HiFly's on. But again since I'm not running oversized tires I've not had most of the problems that owners with oversized tires typically do.

Ever have problems with the stock size on what is called white rock driveway stone it is used a lot for temporary roadways during new home developments?

Secondly I run a slightly larger size because I feel the steering improvement by staying in 2 wheel drive versus going to 4 wheel drive is crucial on tight logging roads larger size allows me to go through just a little bit more in 2wd before needing to switch to 4wd

more or less I am not really trying to clear huge tires, just make a suspension system that works as well off road as it does on (tall task I know) if i need stock tires to do that then I guess that is the case but I believe there is always room for improvement 

[JOHNFAK]

Steering box from DOR

Shackle flip for rear.

Rest seems right. Shocks if you have bumpy roads don makes good set for 400-1100 and higher

[Mopar1973Man]

Ever have problems with the stock size on what is called white rock driveway stone it is used a lot for temporary roadways during new home developments?

Secondly I run a slightly larger size because I feel the steering improvement by staying in 2 wheel drive versus going to 4 wheel drive is crucial on tight logging roads larger size allows me to go through just a little bit more in 2wd before needing to switch to 4wd

more or less I am not really trying to clear huge tires, just make a suspension system that works as well off road as it does on (tall task I know) if i need stock tires to do that then I guess that is the case but I believe there is always room for improvement 

 

Nope. I run on riff raft roads up here all the time. That course stone that is really jagged. Only seen 1 flat from a stone. I run 99% in 2WD even in the winter time I rarely ever even use it.

[MoparFreak1988]

ya I have had issues pulling the large enclosed trailer through that jagged rock with stock tires not real good all terrains though I would get stopped in 2wd 50 percent of the time and switch to 4wd sometimes I was there until I got pulled out

to be honest when I changed to a larger tire I had also changed my driving style a bit making a total of three variables which overall greatly improved off pavement manners I changed tire size, tread pattern(Hankook a/t to General Grabbers) and driving style.

 

that being said maybe tire size doesn't matter except for ground clearance taking in to perspective we are talking about going between 31's and at absolute max 35's    

[Dieselfuture]

ya I have had issues pulling the large enclosed trailer through that jagged rock with stock tires not real good all terrains though I would get stopped in 2wd 50 percent of the time and switch to 4wd sometimes I was there until I got pulled out

to be honest when I changed to a larger tire I had also changed my driving style a bit making a total of three variables which overall greatly improved off pavement manners I changed tire size, tread pattern(Hankook a/t to General Grabbers) and driving style.

that being said maybe tire size doesn't matter except for ground clearance taking in to perspective we are talking about going between 31's and at absolute max 35's

I got 285/70/17 on and I think they are perfect for what I do. No lift no rubing rides great. I also done a lot of off road in different rigs and know for a fact it's all how you set it up. Seen big trucks with huge tires get submerged and a little toyota would drive right through. Ofcose if it's deep water taller trucks have advantage but for trail riding not so much. Clearance on pumpkins is always good but at what price and for what reason. And with 31 to 35 you're splitting hair, if you gor 4.10 then 35 would be ok but with 3.55 I would stay away from 35 especially if you tow. Plus you pay so much more for 35 and what if a rock you went over was 2 inches taller then with 35 you'll still hit something. Unless you put 54s then there is some forgiveness. But by that time you'll be running Rockwells and 4link, and it never stops. Just thinking out loud, but I wouldn't go though all that just to be able clear 2 more inches.

[MoparFreak1988]

I got 285/70/17 on and I think they are perfect for what I do. No lift no rubing rides great. I also done a lot of off road in different rigs and know for a fact it's all how you set it up. Seen big trucks with huge tires get submerged and a little toyota would drive right through. Ofcose if it's deep water taller trucks have advantage but for trail riding not so much. Clearance on pumpkins is always good but at what price and for what reason. And with 31 to 35 you're splitting hair, if you gor 4.10 then 35 would be ok but with 3.55 I would stay away from 35 especially if you tow. Plus you pay so much more for 35 and what if a rock you went over was 2 inches taller then with 35 you'll still hit something. Unless you put 54s then there is some forgiveness. But by that time you'll be running Rockwells and 4link, and it never stops. Just thinking out loud, but I wouldn't go though all that just to be able clear 2 more inches.

as far as ground clearance go I believe me and you have the same idea and thank you good point on the gearing I feel kind of stupid now saying that I had completely forgot about that until you mentioned it.  That being said I wonder if a 265 or 285 like you posted would be best and skip the lift.

 

The more I have been thinking about it I have to hold my garage door up just to get my truck in and out, add bigger tires or a lift and I may have issues with parking garages as well as my own garage.

I also wonder if removing the stock anti spin carrier and going with an ox locker front and year or something of that nature would yield good improvements... to the end of almost paying for itself when you add up savings of fuel economy(by running a smaller tire), not buying and installing a lift and difference in price per tire (265/285 to a 35 inch tall tire). plus if I did that I would get 3.73's put in which I would appreciate.  

Edited January 4, 2015 by MoparFreak1988