Well, the airdog, once again..

[Mopar1973Man]

2.5 years????? they expect people to dump $600 every 2 years?

 

 

TERRIBLE.

 

That's bad. Now figure another $1,100 for the people without gauges and the replacement of the AirDog and the VP44. I've got those types around here in my local area.

[hex0rz]

Yes,she said approximately 17k hours worth of run time.

So wait,that's even less than 2years. But obviously your not running the truck 24/7.

Just wanted to clarify that before we keep running with it..

[hex0rz]

WE desperately need to figure something else out for a lift pump system..

Btw, turns out i must live in the coolest area of the country! Not only do i have alligator performance near me, but i have diesel power products, AND dpp told me that gdp is local too! So the best mechanical lift pump Thus far on the market is right in my backyard! and Mike is like 5hours drive from me!

[Mopar1973Man]

So you want me to come up and install the beast for you? I would say do a FASS pump of some sort and mount it up in the bed side of the truck and then talk to Eric @ Vulcan Performance and see about a old school plumbing kit if need be. I'm not sure what FASS has for plumbing anymore. I know this puts a pinch on you but you might as well do it right so this doesn't bite you and also mount it a way that winter cold doesn't get the filters.

 

WE desperately need to figure something else out for a lift pump system..

 

You should talk to Yankneck about his ideas...

[hex0rz]

Hehe,ed will tell you it's a secret,but i think he gets so excited about it he has too tell you his secret. Everyone knows his secret,lol. Heh just needs to put out!

C'mon, ed!

Just got off the phone with GDP, I'm leaning towards the mechanical. But it would virtually be a totally new install and gutting the air dog completely. He told me that he offers a filter block to filter the fuel. Post pump, pre injection pump. Otherwise it might cause problems for the lift pump. Going to need to toss this one to the wife. I can still value the air dog at a good price too since the pump is really the only wear tear item.

[CTcummins24V]

Fuel boss. 2+ years, 20,000+ miles so far. I think there are filtration options but add another $150-200

[cbrew]

At this point, i dunno if i could resell the system to anyone even with a 0hr replacement pump. I'd even feel bad about doing it too.

Just got off the phone with fass. Not sure I'm hot on them either. Lady told me that their expected service life was the equivalent of 2.5years.

Sounds like I'm going to need too jump ship on the electric pumps...

i have been saying ad and fass have very little difference, the over all designed are so alive its not funny.   believe it or not, some have had good success using the carter black diesel pumps, in fact running two in parallel for supplying the higher demand. they are cheap and would be easy to switch out if it crapped out on the road.

[rancherman]

Been   looking at the  Fuelab's     pumps,  systems.       After   mopartechnician     advised his    experience  with them.

 

They are  a couple hundred bucks more than the  AD or  FASS.   

But they are  brushless,   fuel actually is   IN the motor.. (should help cool the motor)       and   THAT  seal  is    no longer a  problem.      

 

2 year  warrantee..    (limited  of course)    probably means  they won't be responsible for   additional costs  when a pump leaves you stranded,    or  frozen to death along side of road..

 

I sent them an  inquiry last night   about   what  IS  available  for   replacement  parts..        still awaiting   a    response.

 

Since this is  a brushless  motor,  there are some    electronics  within   the  motor itself.       Brushless motors  are  AC,  and   needs  to  convert the  DC  over...    So    there  is  always  a    potential   problem there..

 

I guess,  when  looking at   these   alternatives,     we should look at the track record,    price  means  nothing if  the dang thing   would go   10 years!      

You know,  a lot has  been  said   'pro'    gerotor pumps...  but  when they are worn,   you might as well  throw them away.        Most pumps  are  far cheaper to just  throw away, than to  re-gear them. 

These  appear to have  carbon  9 vane  rotor heads.        IF  fuelab   offers   rebuild kits  for these,    (bearings,  pump components)   I'm going to  really  consider one. 

I look at it as    economics..   buy  a  AD or FASS  for  500-600 bucks  every    18 months,  or       if   mopartechnician is  correct,      5-6 yrs. or more  and  costing   750-850..

The   pivot point for me is  IF PARTS ARE AVAILABLE!!

 

IF  we could find a source to   'maintain'   our  present day  pumps,   we should  probably    put a  'kit' in them  annually,  whether they need it or not.     AD and  FASS  seems  to  rather  sell  brand new  units!        

I'm also   looking at  a couple  'off the shelf'  components  to build my own  system.  (electric)         I'm going to  build it  with   considerations  for   fuel flow THROUGH  the '44   for cooling  FIRST.       When those needs  are met first and foremost,    everything else  should be  'duck soup'...   

[Dieselfuture]

I thought brushless has problem in colder weather, with thicker fuel it might just stop turning, almost like new cordless tools that are brushless they just stop when working to hard or battery is low. But I'm sure they had to think of that in their pumps. Maybe I'm wrong too.

[Ilikeoldfords]

If Mopartechnician hasnt had any issues with that one that he installed, I would think that the pump should be fine in the cold. He is in one of the colder areas of the country. Maybe he will jump in and let us know how its going with that there pump.

[Yankneck696]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_DC_electric_motor

 

Ed

[diesel4life]

Doesn't FASS carry a lifetime warranty with their pumps? 17k hours is actually quite a bit of run time. Some of the cranes I run are upwards of 10+ years old and aren't at 17k hours yet.

The one downer on the Fuelabs is the filtration that comes with it. Only one w/s and no final filtration. This is not such a big deal for the 3rd gen and up trucks because they can put a good filter in the OEM canister but the best I can do that I've found is 10um absolute. Who knows, it may be OK for our injectors but I've always been on the anal side of things so if I went with a fuelab I'd have to buy another filter head that accepted a good spin on filter like the Donaldson I run on my AD.

To put 17k hours of run time into perspective. Let's say you average 20 hours a week on your truck. (Some will be higher than this and others will be lower, but seems like a good average if you think about it). That's 80 hours a month, 960 hours a year. That's 17 years of run time. Now like I said some will put more hours than this on their trucks myself included some weeks, but there are weeks where I might only run it one day a week so the average for me is probably pretty realistic.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just for fun I'll pull the hours and miles off the ATV.

 

As for filter I tend to now believe in doubling up on filter more so. Even though the AirDog 150 is a Donaldson 3 Micron and there is a Fleetgurad 10 Micron in the stock can I'm still seeing the Fleetguard filter in the stock can getting dirty. So if the 3 Micron is so good why is it passing debris that the Fleetguard is catching?

 

After 30k miles...

[cbrew]

Just for fun I'll pull the hours and miles off the ATV.

 

As for filter I tend to now believe in doubling up on filter more so. Even though the AirDog 150 is a Donaldson 3 Micron and there is a Fleetgurad 10 Micron in the stock can I'm still seeing the Fleetguard filter in the stock can getting dirty. So if the 3 Micron is so good why is it passing debris that the Fleetguard is catching?

 

After 30k miles...

well,, maybe i need to rethink my removal of the factory can, couple questions,

where are you sampling the pressure?

how much pressure drop are you seeing across the factory filter?

 

I used to see only a 4 to 5 psi drop, but recently i am seeing 8 psi on high demand, figuring the filter is getting more resistive. i was just going to do away with it.

 

anyone even install a large per filter (before lift pump)?

[rancherman]

17k hours is INDEED a lot!       Back in the day,  it would've  meant the same  as   850,000   miles.   (50 miles  equivalent  per hour)

well,   you and I know that   ain't  gonna happen!

 

LOL,   these  days,   aftermarket  suppliers  are  hoping  the vehicle is   sold, traded, crashed,  long before  most  warrantees are   needed.    Most  vehicles are!     The  averages  are on their  side..   So,   plaster  some 'number'  on the  box  stating  an exorbitant   value..  Poof.  People line up like sheep to buy.  

This  bunch  (belonging  'here')  is    probably  on  the  outside of  that  box!   (Not trading every 2-3 years)

 

Mike,  on your  filter  statement above,     I got to  thinking about these  systems.     (and  their location)       I'd  BET  as  soon as  you   put in a  tighter filter  'down there'   you'd soon join the rest of  us  'normals'  in the gelled fuel   club..     Keep those   filters  'as is'    and let  your    block-mounted  "tight and  warm"    do the  rest of the filtration. 

[rancherman]

 

 

anyone even install a large per filter (before lift pump)?

Doesn't the fuel go through the   first  filter (water separator) before it enters the  pump?.. 

I have a  100 micron   'screen'  before my  fass 02.        It's    right beside the starter,  and  is  the first  thing  I  hit  with the  heat gun  when the truck  quits from  gelling.

[rancherman]

Just for fun I'll pull the hours and miles off the ATV.

 

As for filter I tend to now believe in doubling up on filter more so. Even though the AirDog 150 is a Donaldson 3 Micron and there is a Fleetgurad 10 Micron in the stock can I'm still seeing the Fleetguard filter in the stock can getting dirty. So if the 3 Micron is so good why is it passing debris that the Fleetguard is catching?

 

After 30k miles...

I'd be  suspicious  as  hell Mike!   Have you ever  cut open  the  donaldsons  to see if  they are still  'intact'?   

[cbrew]

Doesn't the fuel go through the   first  filter (water separator) before it enters the  pump?.. 

I have a  100 micron   'screen'  before my  fass 02.        It's    right beside the starter,  and  is  the first  thing  I  hit  with the  heat gun  when the truck  quits from  gelling.

yes the water separator it per and the "filter" is post, but what level of filtration does the water separator capable  of. it it will catch the "big stuff" that can be floating around in the tank so the pump does not see that stuff... thats the only reason i bring it up.

[rancherman]

yes the water separator it per and the "filter" is post, but what level of filtration does the water separator capable  of. it it will catch the "big stuff" that can be floating around in the tank so the pump does not see that stuff... thats the only reason i bring it up.

Nice having a unit right here to  examine!

I unscrewed the   WS100  and   gazed  down the hole.    Paper element.    I'd say that is  more than adequate for pump life (lift pump that is)

 

What is  the  order of  events  in these?        Tank-water separator-pump- filter- internal bypass....Then   off to the engine?   or is  the  internal bypass  before    final filter?

 

If it's   the  final filter first,   I'd  say  Mikes  dirty  block mounted  filter is  from   dirt just getting  blown through the  donaldsons.   Basically a no brainer, who knows  what kind of pressure  those donaldsons  are seeing.  But  if  it's   regulated  fuel that is  getting to the final,   then  perhaps  the  Donaldsons  aren't  as    good  @ 18 psi.. and  are  being overwhelmed.     It's got to be  one or the other.

Paper filters  are good  for  a  certain amount, at a certain  PSI..    when exceeded,       something  must  'give'.

....  a  round  peg WILL fit in a  square hole,  just need a big enough hammer...

 

edit..   unscrewed the  FF  too,  and   I seen how the  'magic'  air separator works..    Just a simple  draw tube  going to the  bottom of  the filter.   Same principle as   our fuel tank.   'air rises'   and  goes  out  the top.

Edited February 15, 2015 by rancherman

[rancherman]

i have been saying ad and fass have very little difference, the over all designed are so alive its not funny.   believe it or not, some have had good success using the carter black diesel pumps, in fact running two in parallel for supplying the higher demand. they are cheap and would be easy to switch out if it crapped out on the road.

I just installed  a carter 4600 (black)    on a  tractor  this week.. got it  through amazon..   I couldn't believe  the   owner ratings and comments  about how many are putting them in the  24 valves...  some   single, some  double. 

And you're right,   run 2 of them,  and  when 1  croaks,  you'd still have the other to limp home on.     Doubtful both would  go  **** up   at the same time!

 

I put on about 1000 hours  a year on this particular tractor,   and if it  lives  beyond  1 year,     I'll    give it my blessing...    50,000 mile  equivalent   would be  pretty good  service life  for   180 bucks!    (2 pumps  X  $90)    

Edited February 15, 2015 by rancherman