Loss of power... Out of ideas need help.

[Sean Betts]

This is my first time reaching out to a forum for help. So please be patient with me.  My 2001 Dodge has me stumped. Sorry about being long winded. My truck right now so underpowered it is unusable. 

2 years ago noticed a significant loss of power.  The truck threw the VP44 code. I bought a remanufactured VP44 from alligator performance in ID & changed out the lift pump.

I put on about 100 miles and everything appears normal.

 

I then loaned my tuck to a friend to tow some stuff about 800 miles. During his trip, he received a stellar deal on some fuel from Mexico. From looking at the fuel filters I guessing it was mud mixed with a little diesel. 

After suspect fill up he tows about 300 miles and calls me reports huge loss of power. He also tells me about his huge score of cheap suspect diesel but everything will be okay that filter will clean it and the truck has a water sensor. At the time I thought he was just pulling my leg.

 

100 miles later, he calls me to tell me the truck has been sputtering for the last 30 miles the AC quit working and now the truck died. When on the phone he tries to start the truck. It starts. I asked him to check the fuel filter. He tells me he is running late and cannot afford the time to check the filter. Against my instructions, he drives the truck with empty trailer another 200 miles.

When I get the truck back, I check the fuel filter. It is covered in mud & slime. I drain the little remaining diesel that’s left in the truck. It looks like muddy water. The next 100 miles I go through 4 more fuel filters. Then the filters stop plugging up and everything appears to be normal.

 

Might be important.. 

***Loss of power noticed when I get the truck back*** I don’t know if the truck overheated. It was outside Phoenix in the summer where it just died on my former friend. 

The truck is all stock except for gages and lift pump. I did not have gages on the truck when my friend used it.

No oil in water or water in oil.  No consumption of fluids. The motor has 200100 miles. 

Tested turbo system to 19 LBS and its good. No leaks in the intercooler or boots.

When I stomp on the gas the truck the lift pump is still pushing out 10#. 

I think the EGT’s get a little hotter than they should be. 

The truck will drive empty at 75. If you put any load behind it it’s only doing 45-50 if I’m lucky.  12,000# trailer up a hill outside St George the truck would only do 12MPH. In the past same hill same load it would do 40MPH no problems.

Truck starts up and runs fine. Running down the freeway occasionally it will seem like a miss for a half a second then it’s back to running normal.

I think that there is a slight difference in motor sound now vs before.        

 

It seems to be using much more fuel than before. However when I get on it there is no tail tail black smoke from the exhaust. 

 

The cruise control just recently quit working. If that helps troubleshoot anything. 

 

 

I’m looking for ideas. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Sean

[TFaoro]

Welcome to the forum! You will get a bunch of ideas coming your way shortly, but I'll start by throwing my 2 cents in.

What gauges do you have? If you have a boost that would help... we would at least know if the truck is fueling hard enough.

I'm thinking the dirty fuel either gummed up/ damaged the injection pump, injectors, or both. I would start by removing the injectors and having them sent in to be tested. If they come back good I would have the injection pump tested (Or have them both done at the same time) That will rule out the big parts of the fuel system

[Mopar1973Man]

Error codes? Is there any current codes? The check engine light doesn't have to be on to have codes.

 

How old and how many miles on the injection pump? Is it still under warranty? I want to see if the option of replacement is still open if there is damage.

[Yankneck696]

I will agree with the above statements. There is probably damage to the IP & injectors. Could be the crossover tube filters, too.

You could try an APPS reset at the end of this article. http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/26-engine-systems/35-apps-sensor-replacement-procedure

Also, after doing Hurricane hill, if you are going to come through \Kanab, give me a couple days notice & I will look things over for you.

 

Ed

[AGPTurbo]

Hey Sean, 

Welcome to the forum- these guys will get you fixed up in no time.  Although I've never taken mine apart, I'm very suspect as well of your injectors being plugged and not atomizing the fuel.  If you are up for it, there is a guy named Pepsi (I do believe) who has a great how to vid on removing and installing the injectors, and Mike (mopar1973man himself) has a great you-tube video on cleaning the injectors once they are out.  If it were my dollars, I'd try cleaning and re-installing before I throw any money after it.  You came to the right place if you want a no BS, not worried about blowing "Black Smoke" or "rolling coal" approach to getting these 24V motors running perfectly. 

I'll see if I can link those vids for you.

Andrew

 

*EDIT*

 

Those videos are available here, in the how to section of the main menu. I do believe you have to be a paid member to see them, but the money will be well spent.  This is the ONLY Cummins forum I have ever belonged to. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by AGPTurbo

[Sean Betts]

Gauges Tranny temp. Lift pump pressure and turbo boost.  Hammering on it I get 19 LBS Boost.

[Sean Betts]

No ECU codes. Will double check soon with the key trick.  VP pump is 2 years old. Truck has been such a dog the new VP only has about 4k miles on it.

[LiveOak]

Error codes? Is there any current codes? The check engine light doesn't have to be on to have codes.

 

How old and how many miles on the injection pump? Is it still under warranty? I want to see if the option of replacement is still open if there is damage.

 

I second Mike's inquiry.  I would not be surprised if this IP is throwing a P0216 in addition to the already mentioned injectors and filters being fouled. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Here is my youtube of injectors cleaning...

 

While the injectors are out you could pull the cross over tubes and verify they are not plugged up too.

[LiveOak]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention and I am sure you have already arrived at this conclusion..........just in case you have not or ever have second thoughts...........NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, loan your truck to ANYONE that you would not trust with your life.  They are just too expensive and too much work to repair.  Just my   worth.  The only other person who has driven my truck is my wife.   She had to sit through and listen to my "block of instruction" BEFORE driving it. 

[Sean Betts]

The only codes are P1693 P0217

[Sean Betts]

@LiveOak

 

Ya I'm not loaning it out to anyone again.  I'm a slow learner.

[LiveOak]

The only codes are P1693 P0217

 

P0217

Decreased Engine Performance Due To Engine Overheating Condition

 

P1693

DTC Detected In ECM Or PCM or commonly referred to as companion code

 

Does the engine temperature gauge work?  Or by chance did you misread the code P0216?

Edited March 5, 2015 by LiveOak

[Sean Betts]

P0217

Decreased Engine Performance Due To Engine Overheating Condition

 

P1693

DTC Detected In ECM Or PCM or commonly referred to as companion code

 

Does the engine temperature gauge work?  Or by chance did you misread the code P0216?

 

It is p217.   The temp gauge works.  

[Sean Betts]

Did a blow by test and nothing at all.  Just like its brand new.  

[LiveOak]

I am just hypothesizing here but if you have a P0217 and reduced engine performance, it sure does sound like the ECM/engine is still in Limp Mode. Do you have a code reader/analyzer that you can go in and reset/remove the P0217 code? I suspect at one time your engine was run under very extreme conditions which may have caused it to over heat and thus set of the P0217 DTC. Usually once a code setting condition is removed for approximately 5 successful starts (I am going by my crappy memory so someone please correct me if I am wrong) the code will be removed. In your case, it appears that for some reason it may not have been removed or this particular code may be required to be manually removed. Anyhow, just something I thought I would throw out there for consideration.

Edited March 5, 2015 by LiveOak

[mulcher812]

Ok someone correct me if im wrong but I think the 01's had 2 engine temp sensors 1 for the gauge near the thermostat housing and the other was tucked under on the very back of the head near the fuel return tee.I would check them and see if you have a connection problem.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok someone correct me if im wrong but I think the 01's had 2 engine temp sensors 1 for the gauge near the thermostat housing and the other was tucked under on the very back of the head near the fuel return tee.I would check them and see if you have a connection problem.

 

No. Just the one near the thermostat. The 12V had the temperature sensor towards the rear of thee head.

[Me78569]

217 is pointing to the issue in my opinion. 

 

How many miles has it been driven since your ex friend did all of this? 

 

 

I would agree if the fuel was that bad that you should clean your injectors, or pony up for a new IP and injectors if that doesn't work, but I would ensure you sort out the po217 code first. 

[JAG1]

Do you have a prefilter to protect the lift pump?

An after market filter that you install before the lift pump, is an important add on to your truck. Without a prefilter, I would inspect/ test the lift pump for reduced flow or clogs.

Also the factory fuel filter gets quit a bit of junk trapped down in the bottom. You can see it when you lift the filter cartridge out. I tape some small tubing to my shop vac and suck that out once in a while. In your case there might still be a lot of stuff in there.

You'll need to also drop the tank as there are screen type filters inside and on the fuel module bottom. You'll need to clean those, but,best to get rid of those all together, they afford no access and caused many owners a visit to the dealer.

You'll need a good prefilter as it's really not an option. A diesel engine and it's lift pump has to have one.