p7100 conversion

[dragraceer1956]

Well i got this 2001 finally running on my test stand,thanks to Mopar man andYankneck696 for the wiring diagrams. I got a couple of questions that maybe someone can help me out with. I want to convert it over to a mechanical motor and want to know  what i need., and is the p7100 pump that came on the DT466 International engines the same pump used on the Cummins 12 valve. Thank You Craig

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Well i got this 2001 finally running on my test stand,thanks to Mopar man andYankneck696 for the wiring diagrams. I got a couple of questions that maybe someone can help me out with. I want to convert it over to a mechanical motor and want to know  what i need., and is the p7100 pump that came on the DT466 International engines the same pump used on the Cummins 12 valve. Thank You Craig

 

Consider your reason for conversion. If you building this engine for drag racing then P7100 pump is ultimate way to go. But for daily driver I still suggest keeping the Vp44.  As for conversion there is possibly a lot of options you'll lose from doing a conversion. (Dodge Truck Body). Remember this may impact your diagnostic abilities of the engine. But if converting to to a Ford or Chevy body then this will simply the install of the engine.

 

Basically need to yank the front of the engine off. New gear case, new cam with 12V fuel pump lobe, 12V lift pump, P7100 pump, conversion injection lines, re-pop the injectors for the p7100 pump, all the throttle linkage and few other oddball things.

 

Like I tell most people it's like ripping off a perfectly good high MPG electronic fuel injection system to install inefficient carburetor on a engine. For drag racing most still go back to carburetors but electronic injection is still far better efficiency than carburetors.

[Wild and Free]

It most likely will have a different cam along with different plungers and barrels in it and different governor setup all together, but the body should be the same. Need to call some performance diesel shops that deal with them daily like Scheids to see if it is compatible.

Personally I would not convert to a P7100 either for the adjustability of electronic versus mechanical

[bjytech]

It all depends on what application the dt466 was used in. Getting a pump off of one that was in a school bus for example chances are it will have 11mm plungers and be rated at 190hp.

Dodge/Cummins pumps use 12mm plungers.

[98whitelightnin]

The best tank my 98.5 24 valve ever got was right after I p-pumped it. I went from a good SO vp44 with 7x.010 Injectors set to 310 bar, edge comp and smarty to a maxed out 160 pump, with 4gsk, .024 dv's and never touched the injectors and stayed with the stock cam. I love the p7100 reliability factor and it ran awesome too.

Edited April 20, 2015 by 98whitelightnin

[TFaoro]

My question is why do you want to? If you have a good running motor why change? If you want performance a VP will get you over 600. If you have a good lift pump they are reliable too. On the other hand if you're dropping it into something else it's a lot easier to not have everything running off of sensors!

[dragraceer1956]

I understand that the electronics and vp pump are far superior than the mechanical pumps when it comes to mpg"s.But this engine is going in my1976 Ford Highboy and i want it to be a clean and simple install and not wanting to deal with all the wiring harnesses, relay panels ,computer, sensors and anything else i missed.

 

Consider your reason for conversion. If you building this engine for drag racing then P7100 pump is ultimate way to go. But for daily driver I still suggest keeping the Vp44.  As for conversion there is possibly a lot of options you'll lose from doing a conversion. (Dodge Truck Body). Remember this may impact your diagnostic abilities of the engine. But if converting to to a Ford or Chevy body then this will simply the install of the engine.

 

Basically need to yank the front of the engine off. New gear case, new cam with 12V fuel pump lobe, 12V lift pump, P7100 pump, conversion injection lines, re-pop the injectors for the p7100 pump, all the throttle linkage and few other oddball things.

 

Like I tell most people it's like ripping off a perfectly good high MPG electronic fuel injection system to install inefficient carburetor on a engine. For drag racing most still go back to carburetors but electronic injection is still far better efficiency than carburetors.

[TFaoro]

I understand that the electronics and vp pump are far superior than the mechanical pumps when it comes to mpg"s.But this engine is going in my1976 Ford Highboy and i want it to be a clean and simple install and not wanting to deal with all the wiring harnesses, relay panels ,computer, sensors and anything else i missed.

^^ That would do it for me. I would definitely swap it! It will be a much easier install than with all of the electronics.

[Cowboy]

I understand that the electronics and vp pump are far superior than the mechanical pumps when it comes to mpg"s.

They arn't really.  I had and have both.

[TFaoro]

They arn't really.  I had and have both.

Dynamic timing is more efficient... there's no way to argue against that.

[Mopar1973Man]

They arn't really.  I had and have both.

 

There is a difference to having a true 12V and P7100 design for each other and getting good MPG's. Then there is the Frankenstein 24V P7100 conversion. Most can't reach or touch the MPG number of a 12V. So have reach good performance and other turn the truck into a complete basket case. I've seen both happen.

 

Dynamic timing is more efficient... there's no way to argue against that.

 

P7100 was the only injection pump without timing. All others have hydraulic timing or electronic timing.

[dragraceer1956]

Like i posted when i joined up i'm green to these 5.9"s and all the information that the  members reply  is awesome.I just wanted something simple and that is why i was asking about the 7100 pump.The mpg's and mega power are not my what i'm chasing.

[Mopar1973Man]

If you chasing MPG's I would stay with the VP44. Being I've high marked at 27.2 and can reach mid 20's most of the summer. High teens and low 20's all winter.

[flagmanruss]

Our esteemed friends here are forgetting the boxes they are running.  The VP44, as issued, retards timing for better emissions.  I think all mileage boxes or mpg setting on boxes like my XZT+ add timing in some fashon.  VP44s can also be built (like the Blue Chip Special X) to add timing but it's easier to do electronically with an external box.  

 

I'm not sure what can be done with a mechanical pump but they were rated lesser power as issued.  I'll leave this line to people with knowledge. 

[hex0rz]

http://dieselautopower.com/app-attitude-adjuster-in-cab-dynamic-load-stop-mechanical-chip-06-profile/

Maybe this will change perspective?

[Mopar1973Man]

Might control the fuel aspect but still absolutely nothing for timing where MPG's are found like finding out IAT and ECT control the timing tables on the VP44. Then the other factor is cetane number that will change again the timing and BTU's of the fuel.

 

Nice to see some got smart on the P7100 pump for fuelling control but still in all lacking the timing.

[bjytech]

http://dieselautopower.com/app-attitude-adjuster-in-cab-dynamic-load-stop-mechanical-chip-06-profile/

Maybe this will change perspective?

I believe it was scheid that made something exactly like that a few years back but it never took off, one reason I think I'd because most guys that modify these truck to the point where it would need that to control full fuel just use their foot to control the the fuel since its cheap and easy.

Timing is only one small piece of the puzzle in getting optimal mpg. Just driving style alone can account for a 30% change in mpg

[TFaoro]

True! But timing gives those few extra MPG that static timing just can't. The dynamic timing also helps to spool the turbo(s) faster.

[dragraceer1956]

That's interesting that the p7100 has no provisions for dynamic timing,but that dosen't suprise me for the fact that some  of the older mechanical diesels never had it either and some did.Caterpillar and Mack have advancer's bolted to the front of the pumps, bbc Cummins and 2 stroke Detroit Diesels didnt and i can understand why they didn't , older BBC Cummins, Detroit Diesels DT466's and 5.9 Cummins started life in construction equipment ,farm equipment  stationary power plants and gen sets so i don't think an advance unit was really there focus when these engines where designed to run wide open 80% of it's life.

[turbodude51]

Talking to a Cummins engineer years ago he said the VP was never designed for that size engine, after going through three of them, I P  Pumped, I can start my truck just like the VP by reaching in and turning the key, I can adjust fuel without a programmer, I can run it out of fuel and just be stuck, Ill never go back and not sorry one bit I did, and its a daily driver

Rick