Teardown and Rebuild

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, leathermaneod said:

When you do it you put water in through the rad cap correct? Where does the water come out? 

 

Thermostat housing.

 

[leathermaneod]

It come out the thermostat housing or goes in there? And what about the heater core?

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, leathermaneod said:

It come out the thermostat housing or goes in there? And what about the heater core?

 

Place the hose in the radiator full force, start the engine and allow the water to pump through the system. This why I suggest surge the throttle now and then forcing water back into the heater core and the back of the block will stir the crud up. It will pump out of the thermostat housing.

 

 

[leathermaneod]

Gotcha! The heater control has to be on as well to allow flow to it correct? 

[Mopar1973Man]

No. The heater core has no flow control. It's always pump through the heater core.

[Dieselfuture]

Here is what inside of your block could look like if wrong antifreeze is used or not changed on time. This one is out of huge cat engine. But you get the idea.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dieselfuture

[leathermaneod]

Thank you! I had seen things in the past about the controls having to be on or something so I was confused. Thanks for clearing that up! I just talked to a shop to get a price for flushing it and see how they do it. They want $180 and have a 3 part flush. First is some kind of cleaner, then another cleaner under pressure, then the new antifreeze. I asked if they ever have any issues with leaks after all that cleaning and they said no, still scares me a little. Sounds like they would definitely get all the crap out though. What do you think?

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's from a wet sleeve engine and requires coolant with sca's to prevent that cavitation. We don't have to worry about that in ours....

Edited June 7, 2016 by leathermaneod

[Dieselfuture]

No we don't have to worry about it as much but there are reports that it did happen I'm not going to risk it over some antifreeze

[Mopar1973Man]

Fords are more prone to the caviation problem than the Cummins ISB. Again remember the OEM coolant was standard old green coolant. Anything today from a good name brand is better than the coolant technology from 15 years ago.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[deehammer]

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

When you do it you put water in through the rad cap correct? Where does the water come out? And do you have to do anything special to make sure you get the heater core too?

Mike wrote this article up awhile ago...

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/51_engine/cooling/

 

Pictures can be a little confusing as Mike flushed the Engine through the thermostat housing but he states this pic is different....if you read carefully on what he wrote it basically says:

1.  Drain Coolant

2. Remove thermostat housing, remove thermostat and but thermostat housing back on

3.  Remove the other side of thermostat housing hose (the one going to the top of radiator)

4.  Point this house out the front of the truck

5.  Remove radiator cap, put garden hose in and turn hose on full

6.  Start truck and let run for 5-10 min or whenever clear.

7.  Put new thermostat in put hoses on

8.  Fill with Coolant/Water (your choice on coolant or distilled)   I used Supertech full strength and distilled water approx. 3 gallons each.

 

Many odds and ends steps missing but it is a good write up.

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by deehammer

[leathermaneod]

Thanks for all the info guys. What are your opinions on the 3 part flush from a small local Napa service center that I and a friend have had good luck with in the past? Would you do it? Do you think all that cleaning will hurt anything/expose leaks? 

[deehammer]

@ leathermaneod  I would do it myself like explained above (well I did) and save money.  Anything can expose or cause leaks but if it does it was probably time anyways.  I have a small heater core leak right now that is probably due to it being 17 years old/250K miles and father time taking its toll.....not the flush.  My opinion.  Good luck.

[leathermaneod]

Thank you! I would like to do it myself, just sucks because I'm not allowed to work on cars were I live. I do it anyway, and I do it a lot, but I try to be somewhat discrete about it. I feel like this is not something I can hide very well lol. It will just have to wait for a little till I go back to PA

[TFaoro]

Good info on the coolant guys.

 

2 hours ago, CSM said:

 

true.  but does it dry out from overheating from bent parts or under normal driving conditions?  one points to grease being causal, one for not.  either way, it doesnt hurt to add some grease...  but filling it bothers me i think it adds undue stress to the seals.  

It's not packed so tight it's squishing out the seals. I just wanted to make sure I put enough in there it would actually get into the bearings. 1 or 2 pumps is just going to sit on the tone ring.

[AH64ID]

Personally I wouldn't ever stick a hose into the block even to flush. These blocks just don't drain enough to guarantee you have removed all the minerals. My system holds 7.4 gallons and I can only get about 4-5 gallons out during a drain. If you refill with tap water you now have over 2 gallons of tap water in the block. It would take too many distilled water flushes to get the tap water out so why bother with tap water. 

 

Lets look at the numbers. If you have at 7.4 gallon system and drain 5 gallons out (the absolute max I could get) you will have 2.4 gallons of tap left in there. That's  32.4% tap water. Drain that out and refilling with distilled water (2nd fill of distilled water) will give you  10.5% tap water. So now we are still, IMHO, contaminated with too much tap water. Another drain/fill will get you to less than 1% tap water. So basically to keep your coolant contaminate/mineral free you are having to fill/drain the block 4 times after you "flush" it with tap water... what a waste of time!!

 

IMHO your time is much better spent by draining out the old coolant and gutting the older thermostat. Reinstall the old thermostat to have full flow and do 3/4 drain/flush with distilled water. That will get enough old coolant out and flush the system as much as is needed on an ISB. Then after the final drain add 1/2 the capacity in concentrate, don't use premix or you will end up with a weak coolant, and then top off with distilled water until you're full.  No minerals/tap water to deal with and you have a flushed/refilled cooling system. 

 

Another thing is that these blocks are not known for contaminate issues in them. I installed a coolant filter and while it does pick some small stuff up it's not anything that will cause premature failure. Most of the contaminates are going to get stuck in the radiator or heater core anyhow. If you are worried about it have your radiator power flushed while you do the coolant flush, it should cost arouns $20. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Some people think I plain nuts then... The only water ever used in my cooling system.

 

Yep... Just good old Idaho creek water. Flush the block, mix my coolant load it back up. 263k miles and absolutely no mineral or scale build up. As I've been documenting this since first coolant change till now. Radiator and cooling system still spotless.

 

 

As for the photo in my coolant flush article the radiators was removed for cleaning. I spray the front and back with degreaser and power washer both faces. As you'll see the battery cable laying on the valve cover and the radiator is missing.

 

 

So while I was doing that I flush the block out from top down. Being there is no way to run it and flush it. As for the whole scale mineral scare.

 

I personally don't believe mineral scare really any more after 255k miles of absolutely nothing but creek water. I've seen factory loaded distilled water and HOAT coolant look complete scaled up on the inside the radiator. Again that is cause by the coolant become corrosive and oxide of metals turning into scale blooms.

 

Kind of like the previous owner of my 96 Dodge distilled water and coolant... Shouldn't eat the thermostat housing. Again its not because of the distilled water but the coolant become corrosive and dissolves the metals into solution which now creates the scale blooms. This is where your minerals come from.

 

I suggest @leathermaneod to do what makes you happy feel the best...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[Royal Squire]

Some water is harder than other. Creek water probably has less minerals than well water. 

[TFaoro]

I'm going to go with @Mopar1973Man on this one. I want to get the orange stuff out and his method seems to be the best way. I've got a new thermostat and new water pump. Right now I think my fan clutch is shot because it keeps coming on when the truck isn't overheating. @195 deg my fan is in full lock up. Also, I drove the truck to the fuel station tonight (4.5 miles) and the engine started at 100deg. The fan was locked up for 1/2 a mile or so until it finally let go. When I got there the engine was up to 179deg. Not even close to warm enough for the T stat to open. After 4-5min of sitting, I got in it to head home the fan was in full lockup again and took 1/2 mile to disengage. 

[leathermaneod]

Not sure if this is right or wrong, but my fan sometimes sounds like it's locked up when I first start out and the truck is cold. Doesn't take long for the extra noise to go away though, and I've never heard it lock up other than that. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Fan clutch is loaded with a thick oil it normal when cold to hear the fan locked for the first say 1/4 miles then unlock. Mine does the same thing most in the colder winter days. My fan clutch locks up typically around 208-210*F the stays locked as it falls to 195*F or close to it then unlocks. I've only had one time that scared me the fan didn't lock till 218*F come to find out the thermostatic coil on the clutch was all buggered up with packed dirt and dust. Too much dirt road traveling.

 

I will mention anyone that is attempting to use water other than distilled and its known city treated I would be very cautious of that. Chlorine and other things added to the water can already set the water for low pH making it corrosive natured from the get go.

9 hours ago, Royal Squire said:

Some water is harder than other. Creek water probably has less minerals than well water. 

 

I've even used my well water during times when there was no irrigation water available. Still no issues with well either. The whole trick about it is my water here is very close to neutral pH level so there no corrosive nature to cause problem like distilled. Even though both sources of water have mineral in it it doesn't hurt nothing as long the water is not corrosive. Now like Riggins, ID city water I would not use that with a ten foot pole. I know that was start like already very heavily treated with chlorine and you can smell it in the water.

 

As for the ppm of hardness of water. Again personally I don't think the hardness has anything to do with it. It has to do with pH of the water where people living in the city and using treated water already start out lower or higher than a pH 7 from chlorine treatment and already forcing the coolant to compensate for the pH correction giving shorter life to the coolant. Once the additive in the coolant is washed out the coolant can no longer hold up and scale blooms start to form as the metal start to corrode away. Since my water is rather neutral already it has no impact in the coolant since it does have to correct for pH. Again if mineral and dissolved solids where an issue then my radiator should of been packed tight by 14 years and 263k miles as you can see it did not happen and still will not happen.  So if you in the city or know that your water is already offset from neutral pH then yes you will have to shift back to distilled water.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Mopar1973Man