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TFaoro

Teardown and Rebuild

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TFaoro

Well I've made it home for the summer and it's time to start tearing this thing apart. I will begin tomorrow, but yesterday I took it to the dyno. Laid down 503 / 1215. I was very pleased with the numbers, but the knocking is getting worse to it's time to take it apart.

 

7168E6BE-46F5-484E-A46E-6623D3EE87A9_zps

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Buzzinhalfdozen

So what are the plans while you're in there? Just freshen it up with stock parts or ???

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CUMMINSDIESELPWR

if you have any questions about rebuild, tips and tricks, let me know i just did mine 6 months ago. i will say this, the engine was easier to mate to the tranny than the tranny to the engine, 1st try in less than 10 minutes and the splines lined up and they slid together. basically i wasn underneath and directing my friends where the engine needed to go and how much, i lined up the gaps from the bellhousing and the engine, gave the driveline a bit of a twist and pop there she went.

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TFaoro

So what are the plans while you're in there? Just freshen it up with stock parts or ???

I'm on a budget, so it really depends on what I find. If all goes as planned it will have the head reworked, possibly O rings, head studs, 188/220 cam, CR tappets, and valve springs. I may be missing a few things in there.

I'm also planning on all new syncros in the trans because 3rd and 4th are starting to get tired. They will shift fine if you're slow, but if you try to shift quickly they both grind.

The transfer case was apart last summer and was in great shape so I'm going to leave that alone.

My paint guy can't take the bed and topper for painting this week or the next, so I'll just throw them on a trailer and take them to him. I plan on filling this thread with pictures so stay posted!

 

 

if you have any questions about rebuild, tips and tricks, let me know i just did mine 6 months ago. i will say this, the engine was easier to mate to the tranny than the tranny to the engine, 1st try in less than 10 minutes and the splines lined up and they slid together. basically i was underneath and directing my friends where the engine needed to go and how much, i lined up the gaps from the bellhousing and the engine, gave the driveline a bit of a twist and pop there she went.

I'll make sure to ask if I run into any snags; thank you. The trans is not staying in though.....

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Wild and Free

Marine pistons.

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flagmanruss

I must suggest you do very careful research before using marine pistons. 

Some time ago we had a member who used marine pistons on his build & ran into troubles.  As I recall...  and with my MS I don't claim a great memory...  the problem was the relationship of the fuel cup on the marine piston & the non-marine injector spray pattern.  There are not the selection of special parts for the marine piston based engine.     

 

Hopefully someone else can point you to the thread or have direct knowledge of the final solution.

Edited by flagmanruss

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TFaoro

If all of the bores and pistons look good I won't be touching them. Thank you Mike! It will definitely be getting head studs.

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Me78569

Humm I wanna help haha.  

I love rebuilding an engine when it isn't mine :shifty:

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Wild and Free

If all of the bores and pistons look good I won't be touching them. Thank you Mike! It will definitely be getting head studs.

 

 

Humm I wanna help haha.  

I love rebuilding an engine when it isn't mine :shifty:

 

Sounds like he is going the route of repaired / reconditioned rather than rebuilt.

 

Tail light warranty.................

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TFaoro

Sounds like he is going the route of repaired / reconditioned rather than rebuilt.

 

Tail light warranty.................

The truck is NOT getting sold. I just don't see the point in replacing what isn't broke. If I had the money I'd put all new parts in it, but I just can't.

 

Nick I'll let you know when we actually tear into it!

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TFaoro

T case, drivelines, skid plates

IMG_20150511_100027_962_zpsbkzlo1u6.jpg

 

Trans

IMG_20150511_111944_733_zpssmsnvtwa.jpg

 

After everything is out

IMG_20150511_113622_424_zpskytyvf4p.jpg

 

Bumper removed. Lunch time.

IMG_20150511_115449_714_zpsbxjlmpgq.jpg

 

 

Considering we started at 9 and it's now 12 I think we've made pretty good time!

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Wild and Free

The truck is NOT getting sold. I just don't see the point in replacing what isn't broke. If I had the money I'd put all new parts in it, but I just can't.

 

Nick I'll let you know when we actually tear into it!

WTF are you saying, you totally missed what I wrote, take a chill pill there bud............... :wow:  :gun:

A: I never said anything about it getting sold and

B: I was just relaying the point you so loudly pointed out that you were just repairing rather than rebuilding as in what Nick posted...........

I like to joke round if you may not have noticed in the last several years of me being here. :doh:

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AH64ID

Why use CR tappets? Most of the CR world is using 24V tappets when changing them. 

 

Did you mean upgraded valve springs or CR valve springs?

 

 

Do the VP marine pistons have a different bowl? The CR's are the same for certain models and when the HP gets high enough they are double heat treated with a minor, really minor, added lip. Great results in the CR world using the QSB480 pistons. 

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Wild and Free

I think everyone I know who has or does 24v rebuilds puts nothing but marine pistons in them.

 

IF THEY NEED THEM THAT IS, BETTER ADD THAT IN BEFORE I GET KEYBOARD LASHED AGAIN!!!!! :evilgrin:

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Killer223

heck while it's apart i'd have to re ring it. new mains and rod bearings as well. it'll freshen it up and is well worth the money and time spent doing so.

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Wild and Free

Rings would be a good thing if the bores and pistons are good on a high mileage engine but if the bearings look good I would skip it. :2cents:

I would be looking real close and getting the spec for the ring lands before just throwing rings at it first, this is an area most never think about but is where a lot of wear occurs. everything may look like new but the ring lands can have wear in the piston and one will not notice unless you measure the dimension, every engine manufacturer has reuse guideline specs for this, there is also ring end gap and piston to cyl bore clearance specs. :smart:  :wink:

 

On a high mileage engine of unknown history I would put pistons and wrist pin bearings in the rods and while at it would have the pistons and rod assemblies weight matched, poor mans balancing tactic.

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flagmanruss

OK, here's the original discussion I was thinking of.  It was under 12 valve. 

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/index.php?/topic/5211-6bt-12-valve-marine-pistons/

 

Remember, in "running hot" Marine applications are sea water cooled... an unlimited supply of cold water without worrying about temperature build up.  Often water cooled exhaust manifilds are used to preheat cooling water before it enters the block...  hot water flows from the block & over board typically through the risers & a wet exhaust.  If a dry stack is used (most often in a commercial application) the hot water will just be discharged overboard.      

 

Now I will sit down & let those with hands on experience share their wisdom.

Edited by flagmanruss

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Wild and Free

5.9 piston specs, found this info but not sure what series of 5.9 its for or if there is a difference so find the correct manual and take this with a grain of salt, more for reference alone to show what all needs to be inspected if you think you want to reuse parts.

 

Piston skirt Diameter
101.864 - 101.88 mm
4.0104 - 4.011 in

Ring Grove Clearance
Intermediate
0.095 mm / 0.0037 in

oil Control
0.085 mm / 0.0033 in

Top Ring
0.35 - 0.45 mm
0.014 - 0.0177 in

Intermediate
0.85 - 1.15 mm
0.0334 - 0.0452 in

Oil Control
0.250 - 0.550 mm
0.010 - 0.0215 in

Connecting rod
 Pin Bore Diameter
40.042 mm
MAX
1.5764 in

Connecting Rod Side Clearance
0.100 - 0.330 mm
0.004 - 0.013 in

Piston Pins

Pin Diameter
39.990 mm / 1.5744 in
Bore Diameter
40.025 mm / 1.5758 in

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TFaoro

Whew you guys went crazy while I was out working! 

 

Bill, I was just wanting to reiterate that this isn't a half way job. If something needs replacing I will do it, but while I'm paying over $31,000 per year to go to school I can't afford to do a full engine rebuild. I have no hard feelings, and I hope what I said didn't offend you.

 

AH64ID, I thought the CR tappets were larger than the 24V?? I would definitely like to go with the larger of the two!

 

The motor is out now and I will be posting pictures of everything shortly!

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Wild and Free

What are you going to college for?

 

I had a total of about 30K into what would be equal to 4 years of college room and board included in the total from 1990-1993. 2 years of full time college for agribusiness and then 6 months @ Wyotech in Laramie for diesel tech program which was 8.5 hours a day 5 days a week schooling.

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TFaoro

Mechanical Engineering at the Colorado School of Mines. The price of everything now is crazy! The prices just keep going up.... I've got 3 years done and will graduate with my bachelors next spring, then back to school for one more year to pick up my masters. That school will be making a lot of money off of me!

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TFaoro

Back on topic!

I got a quite a ways :stirpot:
 
Draining oil and antifreeze while removing intercooler boots and pipes
IMG_20150511_131135_401_zpsjissb26r.jpg
 
Pulled tires and set the front end on the ground, then removed radiator, intercooler, VP & injection lines, PS & vacuum pump, manifold & turbo, APPS, all electrical connections and electrical holders (There were a ton!), and starter.
IMG_20150511_172728_520_zpsckdsrtcr.jpg
 
Attempted to chain up with the valve cover on - No go
IMG_20150511_181432_096_zpsw2cwbels.jpg
 
Removed valve cover, then chained up, lifted the weight off and removed the motor mounts.
IMG_20150511_183947_598_zpso1c40ssu.jpg
 
Half way out! - That's my brother / helper
IMG_20150511_193522_095_zpssc3efp9b.jpg
 
Finaly got it out of the truck.
IMG_20150511_194024_577_zpszgfwk7fe.jpg
 
Lots of crap to clean up!
IMG_20150511_194048_068_zpstemj54yh.jpg
 
Got it flipped around and set up on blocks.
IMG_20150511_201401_627_zpsogmqijgu.jpg
 
Getting ready to remove the head.
IMG_20150511_202406_735_zpsgs7cn6q6.jpg
 
Head off!
IMG_20150511_211842_054_zpswj41zb7w.jpg
 
Head
IMG_20150511_211858_990_zpsolu77yto.jpg
 
Bore - Cross hatching looks good and there is no lip up at the top! Very good news. It looks almost new at 188k
IMG_20150511_211927_950_zpsmogdv237.jpg
 
Block
IMG_20150511_211937_803_zpsj37bb7vn.jpg
 
So that's as far as I got tonight. As far as I could tell the pistons look perfect, the bores look perfect, and I did not see any cracks in the head or valves. Also turning it over by hand there aren't any rod bearing problems. So at the moment I'm still stumped as to why the think is knocking. Maybe a cam lobe is worn?? Either way the cam will be coming out soon. If you have any idea what the knocking is post it up!
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Wild and Free

I may have missed it but describe knock and conditions it was noticeable. Could be piston pin rod bushing going bad or getting loose in piston itself. You ever pull a UOA?

Did you check the valve lash adjustment before pulling it apart or throw a dial indicator on all of the rockers and roll it over to actually see what cam lift was on all the lobes first?

Another indicator of a lobe worn is if it has had numerous valve adjustments and one adjuster screw looks a lot shorter or longer than the rest at a glance. All very quick things that need to be checked before teardown should have occurred.

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TFaoro

Knock miss, whatever the heck it is. 

It's hard to describe. Hopefully that video is a good description. I don't think bushings or bearings... everything was tight when I rolled it over by hand back and forth. No UOA. Valve lash was done multiple times since this started. No I don't own a dial indicator... yet.

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