Hello Everyone,

I have been going back-forth for several months now on if I should invest in my truck or a newer truck.

Now it must be stated that my current 2^nd gen has been nothing short of awesome to me, always completed the task asked (towing, road trip, hauling) but its now 15yrs old with 171k miles. I just got back from another road trip to visit my friend out of state (360 miles each way) and I came to the conclusion I either need to invest in my current rig or search for something newer (3^rd /4^th gen).

The below list are the items I know of my truck would require to be invested in (not necessarily in order) to be 100% in my book (some may not be necessary to others). Let me know what you think and thank you !

 

• Cracked Dash (all cracks repaired with epoxy, doesn't look the best but covered by a dash mat)

• Driver's Side Heated Seat No Longer Works (pad has broken connection, annoying to me)

• Drive's Side Power Seat Back Switch is Toast (requires a whole new control panel)

• Driver's Side Seat is ripped along the seam (needs to be re-stitched)

• Stereo speakers are worn and sound fuzzy ( annoying to me)

• AC isn’t “cold” anymore

   

• Four New Shocks (original set still on truck !)

• Track bar bushing are worn (original set)

• Control Arm bushing are worn (original set)

• Sway bar bushing are worn (original set)

 

• Two New Batteries (they are 5 yrs old and starting to cause corrosion issues @ terminals)

• Two New Battery hold downs (corrosion issues from batteries)

• Terminals/grounds need a cleaning (time investment-not money)

   

• Stock Headlights are faded (restored them twice with a kit but doesn't last long)

• Stock Foglights are faded/cracked

   

• Transmission (auto) leaks @ the pan (bent pan)

• Transmission (auto) leaks @ the shift selector shaft (bad oring)

• Leaks oil from @ supply line vaccum pump connection (drips after 3-4 days of sitting, non running)

• Exhaust System is rust/rattly (annoying to me but works fine)

• Stock Air Box leaves something to be desired (works fine, but like the S&B dry filter setup)

   

• Front Grill cracked in places (needs to be replaced)

• Front Bumper plastic is faded (looks terrible in my view)

• Rear Bumper is bent and needs to be replaced

• Sport Mirrors aren’t the best for towing

I bought my 2nd. gen in 2003. it had 20k on the odometer, now it has 270k, been a great truck and I haven't had a truck payment since 2008, aside from repairs every now and then, and stuff I want to add, I'm glad I went the rout to keep it and maintain it.

with 270 k, I might beet mike back from the moon, but I don't think ill catch up to the chicken man, Ha!

 

All I can say is WOW ! I post, go about my day yesterday/today figuring I might get a few posts to come back to this is shocking, thank you !

As some of you posted, there is also the concern of future reliability as the miles rack up because a lot of the truck has not been touch thus far. The truck has 171k on an original drive-line (trans, t-case, axles) and the fuel side (vp, injectors, connections) which has me concerned as well (not on the “list”).

The thought of dumping 15-20k on a 5.9 3^rd gen or 20-25 on a 6.7 3^rd gen is difficult to bear as well, however I truly fear what happen to a good friend of mine & his 96. Granted it wasn't really stock but he just kept spending money here/there and over his ownership of 10yrs it came close to double the truck value (sold for a total loss). I just don't want to be my friend with the 96 who by the way bought a brand new truck & never looked back.

I left this out of my first post for a reason (didn't want it to be a factor at first) but a heart ache of mine (don't judge) is the fact that my truck its an auto and not a manual. The one appeal of the 3^rd gen is that I could swap to a manual truck, I bought an auto because it was a DD however its not anymore.

Similar to IBMobile (thanks) I have begun pricing the items up but have further broke them down into so called “categories” which are below. This way I think it will help me “focus” because I can't shell all the money at once and will allow me to research the DYI aspect if I proceed forward. I am fairly mechanically inclined but lack facilities/mechanical support help from friends (they live far away). I have ** what I think I will look at a shop to do for my initial consideration, but dyi research may change my view.

Priory Repairs

• Four New Shocks** (front inside coil are a pain)

• Track bar bushing, Control Arm bushing, Sway bar bushing ** (while they do the shock work)

• Two New Batteries & Two New Battery hold downs

• Stock Headlights replacement

• Transmission (auto) leaks @ the pan (bent pan)

 

Secondary Repairs

• Transmission (auto) leaks @ the shift selector shaft**

• Leaks oil from @ supply line vaccum pump connection

• Stock Foglight Replacement

• Sport Mirrors aren’t the best for towing

 

Nice to Have

• Cracked Dash (I may just get a hard cover, taking the dash apart kinda freaks me out)

• Driver's Side Heated Seat No Longer Works

• Drive's Side Power Seat Back Switch is Toast

• Driver's Side Seat is ripped along the seam

• Stereo speakers are worn and sound fuzzy

• AC isn’t “cold” anymore **(want it professional filed)

• Exhaust System is rust/rattly

• Stock Air Box leaves something to be desired

• Front Grill cracked in places (needs to be replaced)

• Front Bumper plastic is faded (looks terrible in my view)

• Rear Bumper is bent and needs to be replaced

   

If you make it to Idaho I do A/C work from recharging to full system rebuilding. Take a peek back on my last post for heater core replacement.

This did catch my eye

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/5313550511.html

Pretty basic, but it is what I want.  I could prob make some money back by selling the injectors and block.....  Shove my motor into it and call it a day.

not something i would do.

how different are the VP blocks vs the CR ones? cna you put the CR head on your block?

but 7G for a broken truck? no way. maybe 3. then buy a long block for 4,

just my .02 cents on the deal.

I wouldn't give me 7 for it,  

 

Been watching over the last couple months to see if the price comes down.  A non running truck is work just above scrap value.    Heck I only Paid $1000 for my 2nd gen.

 

Pretty sure I can drop the cr head on my block.

Edited January 5, 20169 yr by Me78569

Just to add a few things that might put your mind more at ease. My drive line is all oe, have never had to touch it. I dont 4 wheel much at all. just when I need to on the job or occasionally off road.

 On the fuel side, I changed my stock injectors out at 250k, not because the failed mechanically, but one of the orings failed and started pumping fuel in the crankcase.I used that for an excuse to put in some RV275's. Nice little power bump and gained a little fuel mileage. I big fuel issue is the oe lift pump. If you still have that plan on replacing it. The VP needs better fuel pressure than it can provide. A fuel pressure gauge is another thing you would want so you can keep an eye on things. VP's aint cheap. 2 stroke oil in the fuel will help also.

I too have to do all of my work in the driveway. Sometimes I have help and sometimes I dont. That does kind of limit what you can tackle some times if you have to have the truck back on the road Mondays like me. The dash is not as big a deal as you think. I did mine with the same worries you have and was surprised as to how easy it was. It is a good time to do a heater core and evaporator replacement beings you have to pull the dash to do those repairs. Mike's write up on the heater core is what I used to do it. I did mine in about 2.5 days at my leisure.

 

Letting things go as you have is the quickest way to make a good reliable vehicle not worth fixing ( junk). Short of rust or a wreck most repairs are not that big of a deal if caught early. I have spent most of my working career behind the wheel in not only big rigs but mostly on my own private cars and pickups and they were not sold until they hit 300k( most of my employers would not believe that the were reliable and after so long I would just buy another vehicle) and still reliable at that point because they were maintained and repaired before they got bad enough to leave me stranded. The big question is do you like to work on your truck or is it a headache to deal with. If you don't a 2nd gen might not be worth keeping but if you do then you will know what has been done and what is needed. I always go with what I have kept up verses a newer truck because you don't really know how well it has been taken care of or if new what the manufacturer did not test completely leading to warranty problems that there is no real fix( the famous statement THEY ALL DO THAT ). 

I had two 12v trucks
two 24vs

Bought an 04.5 HO 3500 4x4 4 door short bed 6 speed. Liked the added power the CR had to offer over my stock 24s i had. Liked the back doors. BUT didnt like anything else on it. There is even more electronic gizmos on the common rail. Everything you look at is $1000 for parts then the injectors$$$$$$ I was always afraid an injector would stick open and fry a cylinder.

Longer i had it the more i relized i prefered the engine/body/interior of the 2nd gen.

Sold my 04.5 and bought the truck i always wanted a 2002 QCSB sport full load leather/woodgrain 4x4 6 speed. With a lift pump and edge juice it pulls harder than the 04.5 i sold. Just enough for me.

 

The common rail engine is too quiet for me lol silly i know, but boy do those 24vs sound good. 

 

My buddy just sold his 04 6 speed dually 4x4 and bought a 02 sport black  dually 4x4 auto hes going to change to stick.

 

Edited January 6, 20169 yr by moparguy55

Like today, I got lucky when this happened. My 96 gave up the ghost on the ignition switch just about completely. I had to pull the starter relay and jump it to get it started to finish my chores. As for giving up on it... So things are wearing out and breaking. So I called NAPA and a new switch will be here by tonight for a total of $41 and some tax. With a little bit of time and effort, I'll be passed this issue and move on with life. Now I can see a person that allows all kind of issues to pile up that all minor and now attempting to straighten the entire pile in one whack can be a mouthful and expensive. So I would prioritize the issues and work them one step at a time.

Edited January 7, 20169 yr by Mopar1973Man

47 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Like today, I got lucky when this happened. My 96 gave up the ghost on the ignition switch just about completely. I had to pull the starter relay and jump it to get it started to finish my chores. As for giving up on it... So things are wearing out and breaking. So I called NAPA and a new switch will be here by tonight for a total of $41 and some tax. With a little bit of time and effort, I'll be passed this issue and move on with life. Now I can see a person that allows all kind of issues to pile up that all minor and now attempting to straighten the entire pile in one whack can be a mouthful and expensive. So I would prioritize the issues and work them one step at a time.

That's what I've been dealing with on my truck. The previous owner didn't do much besides just drive it, what repairs he did do were completely half assed, making things even MORE fun. One thing that helps me get caught up on all of this, is that I don't put many miles on my vehicles. I don't even log 25k miles a year these days. 

I am guilty here. Let to many things pile up and it is going to be fun to catch up. Hard to keep up sometimes when you are constantly traveling. Unless you take it somewhere. I am not into that. The small stuff gets pricey when you go that route.

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:17 PM, moparguy55 said:

I had two 12v trucks
two 24vs

Bought an 04.5 HO 3500 4x4 4 door short bed 6 speed. Liked the added power the CR had to offer over my stock 24s i had. Liked the back doors. BUT didnt like anything else on it. There is even more electronic gizmos on the common rail. Everything you look at is $1000 for parts then the injectors$$$$$$ I was always afraid an injector would stick open and fry a cylinder.

Longer i had it the more i relized i prefered the engine/body/interior of the 2nd gen.

Sold my 04.5 and bought the truck i always wanted a 2002 QCSB sport full load leather/woodgrain 4x4 6 speed. With a lift pump and edge juice it pulls harder than the 04.5 i sold. Just enough for me.

 

The common rail engine is too quiet for me lol silly i know, but boy do those 24vs sound good. 

 

My buddy just sold his 04 6 speed dually 4x4 and bought a 02 sport black  dually 4x4 auto hes going to change to stick.

 

Wow someone needs to find a new parts house.

 

Prevention is the key, a 100 dollar additional fuel filer is a lot cheaper than 500++ dollar aftermarket lift pumps and gauges and all the related stuff to keep a VP running to the same life span of properly protected 3rd gen injectors. Plus one can replace a single injector if needed for just a couple hundred bucks.

 

I love all the 3rd gen bashers who have no idea the realistic overall ownership costs when they get worried about all the false hype.

5 hours ago, Wild and Free said:

Wow someone needs to find a new parts house.

 

Prevention is the key, a 100 dollar additional fuel filer is a lot cheaper than 500++ dollar aftermarket lift pumps and gauges and all the related stuff to keep a VP running to the same life span of properly protected 3rd gen injectors. Plus one can replace a single injector if needed for just a couple hundred bucks.

 

I love all the 3rd gen bashers who have no idea the realistic overall ownership costs when they get worried about all the false hype.

Its Canada everything is double the price. The fuse box and headlight relay crapped the bed on my 04.5 those 2 parts alone were $1200 GARAGE price. Design flaw prone to corrode from the underside is what the dealer said.

 

stock Injectors $498 each

http://www.dirtydieselcustom.ca/index.php/dodge/5-9l-2004-5-2007-5/fuel-systems/fuel-injectors/dodge-common-rail-stock-hp-injectors.html

Bosch cp3 $1280

https://www.bcdiesel.ca/en/bd-cp3-common-rail-fuel-pump-5-3-4

$4200+15% tax just for the pump and injectors. Vp pump and injectors are 1/2 that cost.

Im not crappying on 3rd gens they all have their weak points. But i have owned both and prefer the older trucks. My buddy was towing his 5th wheel on his 03 when out of nowhere #6 injector stuck open smoke show he pulled over and shut it down. Too late burned up #6 piston.

Edited January 8, 20169 yr by moparguy55

Even going through site vendors 3rd gens are way more for injectors vs. 2nd gens. I can buy 2 VP44 pumps for the price of one set of stock CR injectors.

Edited January 8, 20169 yr by Mopar1973Man

I specifically steered clear of the 2nd gen 24v trucks because of the vp44. I wouldn't trade my 12v for anything. 

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Even going through site vendors 3rd gens are way more for injectors vs. 2nd gens. I can buy 2 VP44 pumps for the price of one set of stock CR injectors.

That's what most typically go through before learning about the lift pumps and all else that goes to supporting them so at that point even if they had the same lack of knowledge about not adding another fuel filter to protect the injectors one is close to the same cost but the support costs are a fraction on a 3rd gen versus a 24v. But one can replace just a single CR injector if need be. Nothing but a fuel filter needs to be added to a 3rd gen like I posted above. Add the extra pumps and support like gauges ect you are nearly at the cost of another VP yet on top of it.

I have seen about as many burned up pistons from aftermarket injectors on VP rigs as I have on stock injectors on cr's.

CP3 pumps are so very rare in failing its hard to throw that one in the mix of failures in my opinion.

57 minutes ago, Wild and Free said:

CP3 pumps are so very rare in failing its hard to throw that one in the mix of failures in my opinion.

I agree with you on this.

 

57 minutes ago, Wild and Free said:

But one can replace just a single CR injector if need be.

You could but 9 times out of 10 the other 5 are on their way out as well. Like a long chat I had with Jacob @ DAP and Eric @ Vulcan Performance you find that if you send all 6 injectors in and have tested you find typically the other 5 are marginal and should be replaced. Yeah you can replace just the failed ones but performance now is wonky as well couple new and a couple old with difference in spray pattern quality. Then the same old problem couple weeks later here comes the next failing injector. Does it take the piston with it or not who knows? Same reason why you don't change just one injector on a 12V or 24V.

57 minutes ago, Wild and Free said:

I have seen about as many burned up pistons from aftermarket injectors on VP rigs as I have on stock injectors on cr's.

Mostly puppies looking for big smoke and not set up properly and street racing with excessive hot EGT's. The other I see is people trying to short cut to big injector and buy just the nozzles without pop testing. As for CR and VP44 there is some differences being the CR is constant feed fuel system and the tight tolerances really do require good filters. Yes plural as in two filters. Again I agree with you about CR fuel system and quality filters.

Edited January 8, 20169 yr by Mopar1973Man

Well I had to learn a lot things about my 24V. I drove it for 8 years almost trouble free. One VP under warranty at 75k then pretty much nothing util the lift pump at 150k and then the ECM at 217k. Pretty much survived on ignorance until that happened. I ended up here and started learning. I would not be objectionable to owning a CR, and would count on folks like W&F to help me set it up so as to avoid those problems. Still, a used truck is a used truck and you just dont know what you might have. Some new ones are like that. It is all relative, but i do have to admit injector prices do scare me into thinking other things could be as pricey, thats more from my ignorance than anything I know. 

Wow, this thread is venturing off onto its own course.

While the 2^nd gen is a great ride, the 3^rd gen offer's a nice jump in refinement/options that isn't achievable with upgrades. Part of what makes me on the fence about which direction to pursue. Still working on the number's aspect while I do some more research of 3^rd gen's in the area to see how the final costs will pencil out as they say.

These are a few things I like about the 3^rd gen over the 2^nd.

1. True 4 doors available

2. 6 Speed Manual Trans Standard (2^nd Gen HO is an option but hard to find without 4:10 gears)

3. Better Tuning options

4. Lower smoke @ increased HP (important to me, I'm not a “coal roller”)