261k miles and my NV4500 finally died. Not the 5th gear nut. I lost both 3rd and 4th gear. I was just leaving my place pulling the trailer back to New Meadows, ID with the a truck on the deck. Got into 3rd and the stick was rattling oddly. Poured the fuel to her to get rolling and it popped out of gear. Difficult to get into 4th. I knew the transmission had lost a bearing or something. Got up to New Meadows flats and check everything over no leaks. 1st gear works fine, 2nd gear works fine, 3rd pushing against you and BANG! Then tried 4th its missing. Rowed to 5th and barely had enough power to get the truck going. I had another 5-6 miles to go before cell service. I got a hold of the owner of the trailer and truck and told him to meet me at the 45th parallel.  So we swapped truck and and loaded mine up and I got trailed home.

 

I know Jon (Dynamic Transmissions) doesn't do manuals but I still asked if he knew of anyone. I talked to Muddy of Idaho Turbo Diesels he told me to call Six States Distributing. So I called there main office and they can get me a NV4500 for $1500.00 with a $1530.00 core. (Holy Crap Core Price!) So I found out Six States has a Boise Office but just missed them they are closed.

 

Just for fun I called NAPA and there price was $2359.00 with a $484.00 core. No go there...

 

Funny I didn't break the input shaft because I still got 1st, 2nd, 5th and Reverse. Just 3rd and 4th are gone.

  On 4/20/2016 at 11:41 PM, dripley said:

What is the danger zone on tranny temp for a manual?

 At temperatures over 200°F the EHL (elastohydrodynamic lubrication) film can start to brake down.  When the temperature reaches 210° to 220°F an oil cooler is recommended.  When the temperatures go over 220°F oil degradation occurs very rapidly and by 250°F the oil is junk and will no longer supply any wear protection.    

 

  On 4/20/2016 at 11:25 PM, KATOOM said:

I did blanket the 6 feet of exhaust which passes directly by the transmission and transfer case which offered even more reduction in transmission heat.

It is suggested to insulate any exhaust pipes near the transmission but do not insulate the transmission.

  On 4/21/2016 at 1:45 AM, IBMobile said:

 At temperatures over 200°F the EHL (elastohydrodynamic lubrication) film can start to brake down.  When the temperature reaches 210° to 220°F an oil cooler is recommended.  When the temperatures go over 220°F oil degradation occurs very rapidly and by 250°F the oil is junk and will no longer supply any wear protection.    

Those numbers are really low "one can safely add about 30-50* to what you posted" and every oil has its own set of specifications one must check first to determine what the safe limits are for your specific brand and weight of oil.

  On 4/21/2016 at 1:58 AM, Wild and Free said:

Those numbers are really low "one can safely add about 30-50* to what you posted" and every oil has its own set of specifications one must check first to determine what the safe limits are for your specific brand and weight of oil.

 

Kind of like @Dynamic discussion of transmission temperature gauges and temperature ranges of normal for ATF+4. Even he was on the low side at 220*F if I remember right. I'm going to invest in a ISSPro trans temp gauge for the NV4500. Foolish not too.

  On 4/21/2016 at 2:07 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Kind of like @Dynamic discussion of transmission temperature gauges and temperature ranges of normal for ATF+4. Even he was on the low side at 220*F if I remember right. I'm going to invest in a ISSPro trans temp gauge for the NV4500. Foolish not too.

Autos are different than manuals in regards to oil temps, totally dependent on where the temps are measured at in an auto "could be deep frier hot coming out of the converter and show 30-50* less in the sump" where it is not in a manual, you have a case and sump and that's it.

This is what I run in my nv56, looks like -40 to 300 for temps. Might not be a bad idea to check on oil you run.

 https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-synchromesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/

this scares me. how many miles on the trans? my stock 48re has 230K and no major signs of failing. always clean inside at the 30K oil and filter change intervals.

i'm in the market for a new truck was wanting a manual. but if they don't last... maybe an auto is a good option?

 

Just to make it clear, I have no idea what the transmission temperatures were before the Fastcoolers and temp gauge installation.  But I have read from other hotshot drivers over the years that their 5 speed would run around 225* to 275* while towing, and after installing Fastcoolers they averaged a 25*-50* reduction overall.  I'm going to assume that they were towing in 5th gear too but I cant confirm since those guys have since moved on to newer trucks and/or are no longer part of the forums.  Towing in 5th (OD in the 4500) generates a lot more heat unloaded or towing.

 

My temperature readings from the transmission after the cooler/temp gauge install was around 150*-175* unloaded in 5th gear and around 190*-220* while towing in 4th gear.  These readings were during the warmer summer weather and on the highway and sometimes climbing in altitude whereby the hottest temp would be after long hill climbs in warm weather and possibly having to downshift into 3rd gear too.  Pointing out that I never tow heavy in 5th gear either.  Strangely what I noticed was that the transmission temps almost mirrored the differential temps too.....  I've since installed a Mag-Hytec which has changed those figures as well.

 

Well after not being happy with the transmission temps while towing up hills I realized that the exhaust was very HOT and it had to be heating up the neighboring transmission.  So I installed two 3 foot exhaust blankets back to back totaling 6 feet which now covered the hot radiant exhaust passing next to the transmission and transfer case.

 

After the blankets the transmission temperatures dropped around 25*-40* overall.  Now driving unloaded along the freeway in 5th gear my transmission runs about 140*-150* at the hottest, and when towing my trailer in 4th gear it will only get about to 160*-175* unless I'm pulling a steeper hill in 3rd gear whereby the peak temperature may reach 200* if the climb is long enough and the ambient temp is hot enough.  That said, if I have the momentum and RPM's before starting the hill which will allow me to sustain 4th gear throughout the entire hill then the temperatures will hardly increase above that 175*.  Clearly running in 1:1 direct drive removes a massive amount of stress.

 

After installing my RV275's I noticed a nice gain in HP while actually allowed me to maintain 4th gear more often and the transmission runs cooler while towing.  Hope that helps.

 

 

As for oil temperatures and whats acceptable.....  After having quite a few technical discussions with some large name oil company tech guys (leave the company names out in order to remove bias opinions here), they all told me about the same thing.  ANY petroleum oil (which makes up pretty much everything available to the everyday consumer) will start to oxidize at around 180*F.  Temperatures up to 225* was completely safe and some may even do just as well at 250*.  But when you crest that figure the thermal breakdown and oxidation rate becomes immense and the oil begins loosing its ability to lubricate.

 

Running a thicker viscosity is only in attempt to achieve a specific "running" temperature which is why its generally called for in more stressful applications.  So running a thicker gear oil is not always best.....and running synthetic is not always best.  Some actually said I "might" see a slight reduction in overall temperatures by around 10* is I used a 80-90 weight instead of the 140 weight.  I have yet to try though and I'm not sure I ever will.  A lot of what the oil has to go through will be determined by the size of the drivetrain components and the stock capacity.  Which is why a Toyota calls for 140 and a class 8 differential calls for 90.  And, why I installed my Mag-Hytec on my differential and my Fastcoolers on my transmission.  Both gave me added fluid capacity which is better for heat dissipation and lubrication durability.

Edited April 21, 20169 yr by KATOOM

My NV4500 has been jumping out of 5th for about a year now (maybe 3 times a month). It doesnt jump out hard it just slips out no bad grinding. I changed the oil a few weeks ago and had two 1/4 inch chunks of metal laying in the bottom. The good thing is they hadnt been picked up or chewed on. She has 315K now so I am just going to see how far she will go.

I feel you pain mike I just rebuild my NV5600 and I just killed my VP monday after I filled up with diesel. I got 215k out of my NV5600 and I am guessing that its still the stock VP died at 235k. Good luck on the finding a replacement or on the rebuild. I would give south bend a call and see if there is dealer in the local area that they might know of that can rebuild it for you.

Interesting oil temp talk. Not much to add other than my buddy's Dmax trans temp doesn't hit the "red" part of the gauge until 280 or 300. Makes ya wonder

  On 4/21/2016 at 2:52 AM, Dieselfuture said:

Might not be a bad idea to check on oil you run.

 

Mopar Fluids...

  On 4/21/2016 at 12:05 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Mopar Fluids...

Can you find info on that? I know I'll be sticking my Quad trans temp sensor into the G56. Wish I would have done it on the 4500 as well

  On 4/21/2016 at 2:07 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I'm going to invest in a ISSPro trans temp gauge for the NV4500. Foolish not too.

Just out of curiosity, where are you going to mount it?

Most likely in a PTO cover plate.

Sorry, I meant the gauge itself.  I was wondering where you would mount that.  Your cab is already pretty filled up isn't it?

Edited April 21, 20169 yr by Hawkez

Steering column pod. That the only open spot. The Edge Comp will be relocated. I'm considering doing a bit of sensor and switch magic and getting a second sensor too and wiring a toggle switch and install a rear diff sensor too.

Edited April 21, 20169 yr by Mopar1973Man

Here's the info on that oil.

SyntorqLT Specifications.pdf

do you already have the pod? Mike? i think i have one. from my second gen.... maybe even have a gauge as well.

I don't have either. I'm looking to do a single ISSPro Trans Temp gauge and the two sensors. One for the transmission and then one for the rear differential then add a toggle switch to toggle either transmission or rear differential temps. I'm thinking ahead on this one...

Edited April 23, 20169 yr by Mopar1973Man

i have the pod and a max tow gauge new in box it's your for shipping...