Fun at the Tranny Shop...

 

I Stopped by my friend's tranny shop , I used to work for his dad when it was his shop, retired

 

He just happened to be finishing up a 2000 dodge ram 2500 4x4 tranny on the bench and finishing the valve body shift kit and installing the valve body. He showed me the Torque converter going in it. All Ill tell ya is its a billet single disc converter, from a local performance TC building shop.

 

He says He has been doing quiet a few Dodge cummins trannys lately

 

 My next upgrade is my tranny, Though I put a shift kit in it and it runs great, My weak point is my TC that needs upgrading

Edited March 1, 20187 yr by GSP7

Nothing wrong with a transgo.

 

You have to understand what to do and what not to do when using a VB upgrade kit(shift kit)

 

The SMR kit  explains in detail what each thing you do does . Some stuff you dont want to do, or adjust different or drill  smaller

 

A turbo 400 I can modify with out a Kit

Edited March 5, 20187 yr by GSP7

In my research it just seemed that shift kits would leave a lot to be desired. There’s a lot more to it I suppose but probably for a different thread. 

 

To each their own though. I didn’t mean to get some heated debate started, was just messin around! Talkin shift kits is like talkin politics! 

54 minutes ago, notlimah said:

In my research it just seemed that shift kits would leave a lot to be desired. There’s a lot more to it I suppose but probably for a different thread. 

 

To each their own though. I didn’t mean to get some heated debate started, was just messin around! Talkin shift kits is like talkin politics! 

No heated debate, we’re not sensitive here right guys? hehe. I’m just going off what I have heard and read. It does see a bit odd that a 100$ kit can do much to a trans that dodge couldn’t dont from the factory. 

 

I was just just genuinely wonder why. I guess to me it seems like a good simple upgrade. Like a billet tc and shift kit to make a stocking truck happy. 

Edited March 6, 20187 yr by s10010001

Yea I read a lot of people were happy with their transgo kits and even some that said they liked it more then their ‘fully built’ trans. To me it seems fairly dependent to who’s doing the work. What’s to say someone who’s installed a transgo did an ok job and whoever did their full rebuild did a terrible job? Or, the person who has only ever had a shift kit, nothing to really compare it to on the fully built end. 

 

My opinion was (like yours) how much could I really be getting out of something that cheap going into the trans. To put into perspective, look at what Goerend asks if you’re getting a valve body from them. That’s a lot they wanna know about for something a shift kit is trying to replicate. Obviously a fully modded VB is going to do more so I can see how some may see that comparison as a stretch, but to me that’s what sticks.

 

So to alleviate all that and get rid or any worry, I just had @Dynamic build my trans! 

11 minutes ago, notlimah said:

 

 

My opinion was (like yours) how much could I really be getting out of something that cheap going into the trans. To put into perspective, look at what Goerend asks if you’re getting a valve body from them. That’s a lot they wanna know about for something a shift kit is trying to replicate. Obviously a fully modded VB is going to do more so I can see how some may see that comparison as a stretch, but to me that’s what sticks.

 

So to alleviate all that and get rid or any worry, I just had @Dynamic build my trans! 

 

But arnt the “built” VBs just pre-shift kitted setups?

 

id love a built trans, then I can boost some hp. But I just had mine rebuilt, billet TC and some vb work he did on his own. (Like flow in Park) so I’m stuck with it until I get my money out of it. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Dynamic said:

 

"Shift kits" just leave a bunch of performance and functionality on the table, especially in a 47RE valve body. But I digress...

 

 

How about a pre built vb? Worth the time on a stock (billit tc) trans? 

Even my 46RE that I had @Dynamic build for my 1996 Dodge 1500 is way beyond a shift kit. There is more than just a valve body. Yes Jon modified the valve body by drill out particular ports changing the shift. Then changing up springs to change shift points slightly. Adding oil ports in the body of the transmission keeping the clutches cooled. You narrowly focus on just a shift kit when there is the entire upgrade that makes it all worth it. 

Quote

It does seem a bit odd that a 100$ kit can do much to a trans that dodge couldn’t dont from the factory. 

 

 

 Auto engineers dont design VBs and auto trans function to be strong and durable.

They are designed to be a luxurious and mushy for the average idiot consumer for soft smooth shifting so they dont feel the transmisssion doing anything.

 

 

And OMG, what kind of caveman would buy a vehicle with a clutch pedal and shifter lever.... OMG those manual labor transmissions were outdated in the 1950s

(being sarcastic )

 

 

.

Edited March 6, 20187 yr by GSP7

2 minutes ago, GSP7 said:

And OMG, what kind of caveman would buy a vehicle with a clutch pedal and shifter lever.... OMG those manual labor transmissions were outdated in the 1950s

 

 

I did... 

No doubt a built trans is the way to go for those who have an extra $5k laying around. For the rest of us shade tree mechanics we have forums like these to help bring us other viable solutions until the day that winning number shows up on our ticket. A billet TC and 'shift kit' is a iable solution has been taking me and my trailer down the road for 7-8 years now on a trans that I feared needed rebuilt at a time when I could least afford to do so, right on top of a cracked 53 block.

 

So back to my original question, why does dynamic single out Transgo as the worst of the 'shift kits'?  Not trying to start a heated debate either, just wondering why a guy who does this everyday differs in opinion from all my research. Of course that was 7-8 years ago and maybe something changed 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I did... 

I wish I would have. How sad that Dodge is the only one to offer it anymore. Even all our new truck tractors are coming through with auto's 

Sadly, many "built" valve bodies are simply pre-"shift kitted" bodies. And, yes, a "shift kit" will raise your line pressure a bit, and firm up the shifts. That's actually the super easy part. Guys will "kit" their valve body, feel the shifts a little more positively than they did before, and drive off satisfied. And, if that was your goal, then mission accomplished...

 

But these transmissions need quite a bit more pressure than simply putting in a heavier PR spring will give you. This is especially true when guys are using tuners and "chips" to bump their power. While these products are great, and work well, what ends up happening is that your engine will make significantly more power for a given amount of throttle pedal travel that it did with OEM calibrations alone. So, as a result, you end up doing all of your daily driving (your non-"spirited" driving, if you will) with significantly less throttle applied than before. The thing is that your transmission relies on throttle pedal travel (read TV cable movement) to adjust its operating pressure to handle the torque being applied to it. So you end up with a line pressure to torque ratio that is far from favorable. The stiffer PR springs that come in "shift kits" are a step in the right direction in that they do boost line pressure, but it's not nearly enough to reliably handle what you're asking it to do. Developing an optimal pressure curve requires, first of all, an understanding of how these valve bodies control pressure, which is different than pretty much anything else in the transmission world. But suffice it to say that manipulating the hydraulic signals that act on the PR valve is where all of the magic happens in a well built custom valve body. There are several ways to do this, depending upon your end goal, but that's what is necessary to achieve a really good pressure curve. Once you achieve a desirable pressure curve, you will need to deal with the shift and lockup calibrations. If you tried to use stock shift calibrations with an optimal pressure curve, it would, at the very least, be quite unpleasant to drive. Specially designed separator plates with substantially undersized calibration orifices are really the only solution to this dilemma. Again...stuff that a "shift kit" doesn't address.

 

As far as other things a "shift kit" won't give you (at least in a 47RE, which is what we're discussing here), the list would include: ability to lock the converter in any forward gear (including manual 2nd), ability to perform a locked 4-3 downshift, performing an earlier and more positive 3-2 downshift, some cooling and lube control mods, revised boost valve strategy, etc...

 

Why don't I like Transgo in the Chrysler VB? A few reasons... Reason #1: biggest in my book is that they have you grind the land on the switch valve, which effectively removes its ability to regulate converter charge pressure. This is most significant at high throttle settings in reverse, where pressures can easily exceed 250 psi, especially with the stiffer spring you just put in there. This can (and does) balloon torque converters. Reason #2: I don't at all care for the way that they reverse the function of the OD accumulator, and then give you their crappy springs to put in there to try and control OD apply. Personally, with the right calibrations, I find it much easier to control OD apply (especially at high throttle settings) with the OEM style hydraulic accumulator. Reason #3: they remove the function of the part-throttle portion of the 2-3 valve train. This auxiliary portion of the valve body removes TV oil from the 3-2 valve train once a certain amount of governor pressure (road speed) is achieved. I prefer to leave this active for driveability reasons. Reason #4: their manual valve is not nearly as effective as others on the market. I simply do not care for their manual valve. Superior's valve is the best on the market, in my opinion...

 

Sorry for the novel...

 

 

22 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

Sorry for the novel..

Not a novel but important information.

   

Thank you.

Good read Dynamic

Thanks Jon! I'm going to copy and save that for a rainy day when this topic comes up again!

Well hot damn... good stuff man. Very interesting.

 

edit: I’ll start saving my pennies for a built trans  

 

edit2: where is @Dynamic shop? I wish I knew of a knowledgeable builder down here in so-cal. But I’m willing to make a vaca for a new trans at some point if it means I get a good one. (And it’s on the west coast haha) 

Edited March 6, 20187 yr by s10010001

10 minutes ago, s10010001 said:

Well hot damn... good stuff man. Very interesting.

 

edit: I’ll start saving my pennies for a built trans  

 

edit2: where is @Dynamic shop? I wish I knew of a knowledgeable builder down here in so-cal. But I’m willing to make a vaca for a new trans at some point if it means I get a good one. (And it’s on the west coast haha) 

 

Basically Spokane, WA, slightly more east towards the border for all intensive planning purposes, Spokane lol!

 

I made the 5 hour drive out there from the west side of WA and spent a few days out there with the family.

Ouch, that’s 20 hours for me... 

 

Been there done that! It's about 5-6 hour trip with the RV then spent two days camped in his driveway. 

On 3/6/2018 at 10:57 AM, Dynamic said:

Sadly, many "built" valve bodies are simply pre-"shift kitted" bodies. And, yes, a "shift kit" will raise your line pressure a bit, and firm up the shifts. That's actually the super easy part. Guys will "kit" their valve body, feel the shifts a little more positively than they did before, and drive off satisfied. And, if that was your goal, then mission accomplished...

 

But these transmissions need quite a bit more pressure than simply putting in a heavier PR spring will give you. This is especially true when guys are using tuners and "chips" to bump their power. While these products are great, and work well, what ends up happening is that your engine will make significantly more power for a given amount of throttle pedal travel that it did with OEM calibrations alone. So, as a result, you end up doing all of your daily driving (your non-"spirited" driving, if you will) with significantly less throttle applied than before. The thing is that your transmission relies on throttle pedal travel (read TV cable movement) to adjust its operating pressure to handle the torque being applied to it. So you end up with a line pressure to torque ratio that is far from favorable. The stiffer PR springs that come in "shift kits" are a step in the right direction in that they do boost line pressure, but it's not nearly enough to reliably handle what you're asking it to do. Developing an optimal pressure curve requires, first of all, an understanding of how these valve bodies control pressure, which is different than pretty much anything else in the transmission world. But suffice it to say that manipulating the hydraulic signals that act on the PR valve is where all of the magic happens in a well built custom valve body. There are several ways to do this, depending upon your end goal, but that's what is necessary to achieve a really good pressure curve. Once you achieve a desirable pressure curve, you will need to deal with the shift and lockup calibrations. If you tried to use stock shift calibrations with an optimal pressure curve, it would, at the very least, be quite unpleasant to drive. Specially designed separator plates with substantially undersized calibration orifices are really the only solution to this dilemma. Again...stuff that a "shift kit" doesn't address.

 

As far as other things a "shift kit" won't give you (at least in a 47RE, which is what we're discussing here), the list would include: ability to lock the converter in any forward gear (including manual 2nd), ability to perform a locked 4-3 downshift, performing an earlier and more positive 3-2 downshift, some cooling and lube control mods, revised boost valve strategy, etc...

 

Why don't I like Transgo in the Chrysler VB? A few reasons... Reason #1: biggest in my book is that they have you grind the land on the switch valve, which effectively removes its ability to regulate converter charge pressure. This is most significant at high throttle settings in reverse, where pressures can easily exceed 250 psi, especially with the stiffer spring you just put in there. This can (and does) balloon torque converters. Reason #2: I don't at all care for the way that they reverse the function of the OD accumulator, and then give you their crappy springs to put in there to try and control OD apply. Personally, with the right calibrations, I find it much easier to control OD apply (especially at high throttle settings) with the OEM style hydraulic accumulator. Reason #3: they remove the function of the part-throttle portion of the 2-3 valve train. This auxiliary portion of the valve body removes TV oil from the 3-2 valve train once a certain amount of governor pressure (road speed) is achieved. I prefer to leave this active for driveability reasons. Reason #4: their manual valve is not nearly as effective as others on the market. I simply do not care for their manual valve. Superior's valve is the best on the market, in my opinion...

 

Sorry for the novel...

 

 

That was awesome. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.  We will all remember that.

 

L8tr

D

On 3/7/2018 at 6:48 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Been there done that! It's about 5-6 hour trip with the RV then spent two days camped in his driveway. 

 

Now Mike you know you are actually facing the air strip there.  =)  LOL  Jon has done 2 trannies for me.

 

Jon, this sounds a lot like Tony talking---again.  BTW he had a hand in designing one of the shift kits on the market and said it was not too bad.  Unsaid, but I understood, what he was doing the time I was around was better.  Plus he made several upgrades during that time also. 

 

8 minutes ago, Russ Roth said:

Now Mike you know you are actually facing the air strip there.  =)

 

Yes sir... I was facing the airstrip. Very quiet place never heard a single plane in the entire time I was camped there in his driveway.