So Im in the middle of swapping back to the HY while I rebuild the HX and the sun caught the back of the block just right and I see this.  I'm guessing it's the head gasket.  Agree?

 

 

1 hour ago, Manimalmother said:

How torn down does the head need to be to go to most machine shops?

 

Just remove the injectors, rocker arms and pushrods. Leave the valves and springs.

Well I put this off for a while but started smelling coolant this morning in the drop off line at my kids school.  I had to run into work without looking at it but came out at lunch to a pretty good puddle under the truck.  Pretty sure it's coming from the back side of the head.  I called an engine machine shop in town that quoted me $450 to clean, inspect, and deck the head.  Does this seem about right or does it seem high?  They do not offer O-ringing but send stuff to a shop that does.

Low...

 

Mine was just near $2,000 for valve guides, valve seals, lap the valves, etc. Deck the head, head gasket (Felpro) and ARP 425 studs.

The guy I'm using does all the engine machine work for the counties fire apparatus and heavy equipment.  He quoted $400-$450 for clean, inspect, deck, and as he put it a "valve job".  Does not include gasket.  I will be buying the gasket and the studs seperately.  This is also me pulling the head.

Just now, Manimalmother said:

The guy I'm using does all the engine machine work for the counties fire apparatus and heavy equipment.  He quoted $400-$450 for clean, inspect, deck, and as he put it a "valve job".  Does not include gasket.  I will be buying the gasket and the studs seperately.  This is also me pulling the head.

Thats about the same as I paid for the work you describe in Hickory. No valave guides either. Mine were still good. 25k miles or so later and she still running fine.

Yup.. Same here I did the head pull myself and freighted it to a machine shop in Caldwell, ID. Then he did his magic in about 3 days. The head studs and gaskets came from DAP. Even got checked for cracks. 

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yup.. Same here I did the head pull myself and freighted it to a machine shop in Caldwell, ID. Then he did his magic in about 3 days. The head studs and gaskets came from DAP. Even got checked for cracks. 

 

Mike what is your arp headstud torque procedure?

All provided with the studs. 3 step torque. Final is 125 foot pounds.

Got the head off tonight.  

 

I think my head gasket might have been weeping, but the small freeze plug on the backside of the block had a pinhole in it pissing coolant out.  Headed to machine shop tomorrow.

After putting the head back on after  couple thousand miles or so are you supposed to double-check those ARP bolts?  Just wondering.

8 hours ago, Manimalmother said:

but the small freeze plug on the backside of the block had a pinhole in it pissing coolant out

I was told by more than one source that all freeze plugs on the head are stainless steel, I do not know that for a fact. When I did my HG my machine shop told me they don't generally remove freeze plugs on these heads because sometimes they're not easy to sit back in. Not sure if corrosive coolant ca eat a whole through one of them.

 

I think this may be same problem you got.

 

32 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I was told by more than one source that all freeze plugs on the head are stainless steel, I do not know that for a fact. When I did my HG my machine shop told me they don't generally remove freeze plugs on these heads because sometimes they're not easy to sit back in. Not sure if corrosive coolant ca eat a whole through one of them.

 

I think this may be same problem you got.

 

 

That's the exact plug that's problematic on mine.  Going to see what the machine shop says about it.  

9 hours ago, 015point9 said:

After putting the head back on after  couple thousand miles or so are you supposed to double-check those ARP bolts?  Just wondering.

 

No. Single torque.Even ARP's page says if you torqued them right there is no reason for second torque. Also never do a hot torque.

10 hours ago, 015point9 said:

After putting the head back on after  couple thousand miles or so are you supposed to double-check those ARP bolts?  Just wondering.

 

As stated it is not required.. thou many do it and get some decent movement out of them. When I did mine it was all per the install instructions. I then re-torqued them and got movement on all of them and not with a hot engine. This was even with an already compressed HG and 1 bolt at a time. 

 

Our local engine builder also always does a retoruqe after a couple drive cycles and gets movement. 

 

Even ARP stats that they might be necessary depending on the headgasket used. At higher than stock clamping force it's not uncommon to get uneven clamping at first that is then fixed with a re-torque. 

 

So you may not need to, but it also may not hurt. It doesn't take long. At the end of the day if you're not pushing the limits of the HG or studs then it likely won't make a longevity difference, but again it doesn't hurt it either. 

Just finished bottom tapping all the stud holes in the block.  A job in itself.  

 

Still waiting on the head back but the machinist said there's no cracks anywhere and the valves all cleaned up.  Leaving for work for a few days should pick it up Friday morning.

4 hours ago, Manimalmother said:

Just finished bottom tapping all the stud holes in the block.  A job in itself. 

The last 90* turn took its toll on me.

Edited February 3, 20205 yr by dripley

PO put in a1 studs in mine, when I did my HG I just cleaned thing up and didn't need to bottom tap. I did ran a tap down the threads and seemed I was pulling too much material out so I stopped and just used carb cleaner and compressed air and shopvac to clean thing up. 

7 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

PO put in a1 studs in mine, when I did my HG I just cleaned thing up and didn't need to bottom tap. I did ran a tap down the threads and seemed I was pulling too much material out so I stopped and just used carb cleaner and compressed air and shopvac to clean thing up. 

 

I happened to have an M12x1.75 bottoming tap at work and used it.  It did not remove any material until the bottoms of the holes.  Actually went most of the way in with fingers, then put the handle on.  I used axle grease on the tap to catch most of the chips.

 

I am also going to remove in freeze plugs in the top of my head and tap the holes for M24 plugs.  I've only ever heard of them blowing out on high revving high HP trucks but I figure it's cheap insurance.  

 

The small .375 external freeze plugs are also being removed and tapped 1/8"NPT for brass plugs.

So the machine shop just called me and said they can't finish the head.  He said that 16 of the valve guides are bad and need to be replaced.  He recommended another shop in Charlotte that has equipment large enough to do it.  Looked them up and they have terrible reviews.  Unsure what to do at this point.

This is weird how some engines with low miles have a lot of wear and others with high miles have no wear at all. Wonder if some shops know what to look for, I would hope yes. 

I want to say 16 of my guides were oval too, I had them put in all 24. They used some brass ones, said they use them a lot with good luck, hope they are right. 

 

You could see what a bear head cost, but then it may still require machine work. Replacing guides is cheaper if you can find a good shop near by. 

I would personally have them machine it for top hat style seals also, so you'll never have to worry about seals blowing off. I got quoted $80 for that but they never mentioned it in the beginning before I knew it was available, so I had to make some out of tinfoil and used genuine chinese condoms, lol just kidding, I used some ford seals from a v6 what a pain in the rear. They still work but I'd rather spend 80 at the shop if I would have known.