whoo!     RUG  broke    2 bucks today.    $1.96 gallon         On road  diesel   is now  south of  $3      actually   $2.99 gallon.

Cousin in  Western Iowa   contracted  last Friday    #2  died   diesel for     $1.94   for  most of  2015    Which  means   'on road'  should  be  ~  $2.45   by  spring.....  'unless'..... 

 

What is non ethanol?

  On 12/25/2014 at 4:10 PM, ISX said:

What is non ethanol?

100% pure non-adulterated refined petroleum 1960's gasoline, lol!

Edited December 25, 201410 yr by hex0rz

  On 12/25/2014 at 5:19 PM, hex0rz said:

100% pure non-adulterated refined petroleum 1960's gasoline, lol!

The real deal stuff..

 

With all the LEAD, OCTANE, and other goodies that made muscle car fast back in the day.

I don't think is has lead in it? Isn't it the same gas we had pre 2007? Idk why it's twice the price but it is mid grade 90 octane. I use it in the lawnmower, 4wheelers, pressure washer and dirt bike.

Edited December 25, 201410 yr by 98whitelightnin

  On 12/25/2014 at 7:00 PM, 98whitelightnin said:

I don't think is has lead in it? Isn't it the same gas we had pre 2007? Idk why it's twice the price but it is mid grade 90 octane. I use it in the lawnmower, 4wheelers, pressure washer and dirt bike.

Correct, no lead, but the reason it is higher is because they can. Same as why diesel is OVER $1 a gallon more when it is essentially a by-product of refining oil to make gasoline. I do understand that there is a bit more done to the fuel after refining (sulpher removal), but it is still a by-product.

The way i feel about things is we are consuming the fake stuff. Think about it. Real pure natural wholesome food would make your grocery bill quadruple. My grandparents could tell me what real was. Because of many factors, you only get the real,good stuff at premium. The same stuff that's near 5dollars a gallon to pump now was an everyday fuel back then.

Ode to processed foods, and adulterated substitutes!

Ethanol is 10%-15% cheaper to manufacture than gasoline. I'm sure there are still subsidies and "green" credits on the table to make ethanol more enticing to purchase at the wholesale level as well.

Funny  phenom  right now  with   the  ethanol industy...

 

It's  originally set up as   the  liquid fuel  (alcohol)  was to be the  primary  income,   then  the sale or  disposal of   by- products  of  the  process  was to be  the  'necessary evil'  of  the  whole.

 

These  are the  grain by products, (distillers mash, great  livestock feed)   plus   gobs and  gobs and gobs   of  CO2.    Some of the  Co2 is  captured for industrial use,  but most is  blown back to atmosphere.  Did I mention  there was  a LOT of  Co2??

Nowadays,  the  alcohol fuel   is  the  'byproduct',  and  they are actually  in the 'black'  only  with the sales  of  the by-product.    Right now,   the  CBT  (Chicago board of trade)  has   March  ethanol @  about  1.40 gallon....    (don't forget...  no  taxes  yet).      Cash corn  is    about  $4.40.    industry standard  is  2.6 gallons  ethanol per bushel.

Soooo,     it's costing them  $1.70  for a gallon of  ethanol.  (.30 cent loss)      This is   only for the  cost of  raw materials... no  labor, equip, or  overhead!        Only  when they  sell the  by products,  to cattle and hog  producers,   do they  'see'  breakeven..

Just  watch!    corn prices  keep  creeping  up..... and  crude  is   still  not finding  bottom yet..   sumthin  gotta  give!

  On 12/26/2014 at 12:52 AM, hex0rz said:

The way i feel about things is we are consuming the fake stuff. Think about it. Real pure natural wholesome food would make your grocery bill quadruple. My grandparents could tell me what real was. Because of many factors, you only get the real,good stuff at premium. The same stuff that's near 5dollars a gallon to pump now was an everyday fuel back then.

Ode to processed foods, and adulterated substitutes!

Hijacking here but why would real pure natural wholesome food quadruple your grocery bill?

The diesel and gasoline has changed formulation over time for various reasons chief of which is to comply with EPA regulation.  What has changed to the point of not even being remotely close to or even slightly related to any longer is the fiat currency which our "government" refers to as "money".  There once was a time when our government did not print more money than they had platinum, gold, silver, copper, nickel, or other material of actual worth to back its value.  The ONLY and closest denomination of money in circulation being used as money that actually IS money, is the American Nickel.  Its face value is 5 cents and it is currently worth about 4.3 cents metal melt down value. 

 

http://www.coinflation.com/

 

It is scheduled to be abolished and replaced with a metallic formulation that is much cheaper to produce.  This is one reason why Kyle Bass took delivery of 1 million dollars worth (20,000,000) of nickels.  At the time nickels were worth almost 7 cents, but there was no down side since he paid face value. 

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-kyle-bass-hoard-nickels-2011-11

 

Hence what most refer to as "money" which is in reality fiat currency has lost so much value that the cost of literally everything has gone up to the current outrageous prices.  For instance, about 200 years ago a gold 1 ounce coin would buy you a REALLY nice suit or many similarly priced items.  Today, that very same gold ounce coin will STILL buy you a REALLY nice suit or similarly priced item.   Take a look at what a Liberty Gold Double Eagle's value is.  This is called intrinsic value.

 

http://www.coinflation.com/gold_coin_values.html

 

When you factor in that our "government" owes over $18,000,000,000,000 (18 trillion with a T dollars), and growing explosively by the hour, this further devalues the fiat currency.  This is why "governments" who take on debt of a magnitude that is mathematically IMPOSSSIBLE to EVER repay resort to causing their fiat currency to become inflated so as to easy the repayment of the debt with inflated and nearly worthless fiat currency called dollars.  When our "government borrows money of some intrinsic value and repays the debt with currency of less or near worthless intrinsic value..........I know what I call it.  You will have to decide for yourself. 

 

Andy THAT is why we pay the prices we pay at the pump and pretty much everywhere else. 

  On 12/26/2014 at 1:41 AM, volkswagon said:

Hijacking here but why would real pure natural wholesome food quadruple your grocery bill?

I'll take a stab here...

Lets go back to   organic  fertilizer.   sprays,  and  non  gmo    seeds.     Our    Nations    average   bpa  (bushels per acre)   would  be  gutted  to    half  of  what it is  now..        I don't know  about     other   foodstocks      such as     the  vegetables,    but   it  wouldn't  be  good  with out  some sort of   protection from   bugs,  molds,  smuts, fungus..    True  with  the  fact   veggies  are grown  in  huge  fields  now.    Which   is   far more difficult  to    keep the plant healthy  than   a  small garden plot.        (stress  from  confining any living organism  causes  disease)  

So,     do  we want   a   over supply of  food,  which keeps  the  price   low..   or   take our  chances  and     be forced to   import  food  from   'god only knows  what  country'   in  much more  quantity?

What  would happen?   well,  God  Bless America!      IF  food  suddenly  got   even  'double',    The number of  back yard  gardeners  would   double,   people  would  start  learning how to  preserve their  own food  again...    the  direct  sales   (farmers  markets)  would  grow  even more.  *it's  already happening*    Shoot,  there's  already a  pretty large  segment of  folk  who are  buying  this   'natural type'  foods...  and   damn  the  cost.      

I'm not  advocating  any  type  of    policy here.   Personally,      I  don't  care for  any  unproven  type  of  GMO  induced   problems.       In  our   'race'  to feed the  world,  (plus keep our  cars  full of  'cheap' fuel)     I fear   some  steps   in food  safety  have  been    untested/unproven.   Only  time  will tell.

What  does it  boil down to?    supply and  demand  is  what  drives  our  food  dollar...     

I  truly  believe  there are far better  base  materials  for  making   renewable  fuels.    Corn just happened to be   the most plentiful  and  'at risk-- perishable  crop'  at  the time of  the ethanol industry inception.     We had  gobs  and  gobs  of  bins  full  of   4,5,6 year old  corn  sitting around for most of the  80's..   and  no way  of ever seeing  out of  that   glut.      Not  the  case  3 years ago!!

    Biomass  is  the  future..  Keep  corn for    feeding livestock!         Cane,  and  certain  grasses   are  going to be the king  of   alcohol  

  On 12/26/2014 at 2:02 PM, rancherman said:

I'll take a stab here...

Lets go back to   organic  fertilizer.   sprays,  and  non  gmo    seeds.     Our    Nations    average   bpa  (bushels per acre)   would  be  gutted  to    half  of  what it is  now..        I don't know  about     other   foodstocks      such as     the  vegetables,    but   it  wouldn't  be  good  with out  some sort of   protection from   bugs,  molds,  smuts, fungus..    True  with  the  fact   veggies  are grown  in  huge  fields  now.    Which   is   far more difficult  to    keep the plant healthy  than   a  small garden plot.        (stress  from  confining any living organism  causes  disease)  

So,     do  we want   a   over supply of  food,  which keeps  the  price   low..   or   take our  chances  and     be forced to   import  food  from   'god only knows  what  country'   in  much more  quantity?

What  would happen?   well,  God  Bless America!      IF  food  suddenly  got   even  'double',    The number of  back yard  gardeners  would   double,   people  would  start  learning how to  preserve their  own food  again...    the  direct  sales   (farmers  markets)  would  grow  even more.  *it's  already happening*    Shoot,  there's  already a  pretty large  segment of  folk  who are  buying  this   'natural type'  foods...  and   damn  the  cost.      

I'm not  advocating  any  type  of    policy here.   Personally,      I  don't  care for  any  unproven  type  of  GMO  induced   problems.       In  our   'race'  to feed the  world,  (plus keep our  cars  full of  'cheap' fuel)     I fear   some  steps   in food  safety  have  been    untested/unproven.   Only  time  will tell.

What  does it  boil down to?    supply and  demand  is  what  drives  our  food  dollar...     

I  truly  believe  there are far better  base  materials  for  making   renewable  fuels.    Corn just happened to be   the most plentiful  and  'at risk-- perishable  crop'  at  the time of  the ethanol industry inception.     We had  gobs  and  gobs  of  bins  full  of   4,5,6 year old  corn  sitting around for most of the  80's..   and  no way  of ever seeing  out of  that   glut.      Not  the  case  3 years ago!!

    Biomass  is  the  future..  Keep  corn for    feeding livestock!         Cane,  and  certain  grasses   are  going to be the king  of   alcohol  

 

Couldn't agree more.  What pisses me off is that "we" (American petroleum companies I suppose to be more exact) have never used American food grains, meats, vegetables, and other farm products as a counter defensive to the outrageously high oil prices that up until recently were being charged by several nations who are BIG American agricultural product importers.  I believe that American Agricultural export prices MUST be directly tied to ALL oil and other imports to balance out the deficit in trade.  I am NOT advocating a government intervention in the market but private industry raising their prices proportionally  to balance out the huge trade deficit in large part driven up until recently by oil imports.  These nations CANNOT eat oil and a barrel of oil in my opinion is really worth about something in the range of about $35 a barrel.  Any price charged above that in my opinion should be met with a proportional increase in the price of a bushel of grain or whatever agricultural product is being traded/sold.   Granted, this is an over simplified example but I think you get the jist of it.  In theory (which rarely works out) moderate prices for oil in exchange for moderately priced agricultural products would be a good thing for BOTH farms (cheaper fuel, oil, pesticides, herbicides, etc.) and petroleum exporters (get moderately priced agricultural products). 

 

Reality.......with the current situation in the markets.......DO NOT hold your breath waiting for the above to happen. 

 

I think higher agricultural prices driven by free market forces are FAR more preferable than the current mess we have now.    

Actually  Liveoak,     back in the  70's   when  certain  trade embargoes    to  various  countries    for exactly    what  you talk about..   OIL,  and   grain.     Our   infamous   gov't  decided  to   'use'  our  grain exports  as   leverage  to the   'then developing'   mid east  countries...     They  wanted  our  grain/food,   we wanted the  cheap oil.   We also  sold  our  grains at  below  costs   to these  developing  oil  countries  so  OTHER  interests  couldn't  have access.  Can you imagine  if  S America   was  able back then to supply  the majority?   THEY  would've  been the   worlds leading  ag  producing  area   by now!

 

At the time,   food shortages  and  rationing   here in the  US (from   WWII and earlier  from the  20's and 30's   dust bowl/deprecion)   were STILL   in  the  back of policy makers  minds.   "never again"  was the  theme  in  DC.

 

So,  In a nutshell,     policy  dictated     WAY too much  production...  in order to  control  world markets,  and  keep the  American people  flush with the world's  cheapest   and  plentiful food. 

...enter stage  left:    Farm programs,   with   their  macro management of   number of  acres  farmed,  and  what they are planted into.     We were almost  forced to  cooperate.  If we didn't,  we'd not get  any  parity or  price supports  to the   dismal   prices  for  this  'abundant' crop we were encouraged to  plant.   For the next 20 years..   the American farmer  just  'got by'.  a lot  were not so lucky.

 

I  think I must   re state  my earlier  thought on food prices..  "supply and demand"   really isn't the  whole side of the story.     "fear, specuation, greed, and  opportunists,   of  a future   starving world  probably  is  closer to the  truth.

 

4 years ago,  here in the AG  sector,   we were preached to  that  " worlds population to double  by   2025"   so    in  essence,   'go for it'    we  can't  go wrong.     Corn  spiked to  7-8 dollars,  wheat  was  12-13 dollars.   Magically,  crude oil  was   $160+!!!   

Watch  very closely my friends..  the  parallelism  between  crude price and    grains  is  almost  uncanny.

 

So,   who knows  how  intertwined   Big Oil,   Big  Gov't,   World banks  are....     All it  takes  is  one measly hiccup  to  fold the whole show.

Edited December 26, 201410 yr by rancherman

  On 12/26/2014 at 2:02 PM, rancherman said:

I'll take a stab here...

Lets go back to organic fertilizer. sprays, and non gmo seeds. Our Nations average bpa (bushels per acre) would be gutted to half of what it is now.. I don't know about other foodstocks such as the vegetables, but it wouldn't be good with out some sort of protection from bugs, molds, smuts, fungus.. True with the fact veggies are grown in huge fields now. Which is far more difficult to keep the plant healthy than a small garden plot. (stress from confining any living organism causes disease)

I disagree with you here. Have you heard of Gabe Brown from Bismark? He uses no fertilizer and chemical only every 3 years or something like that and his yields are something like 20-25% better than county average. I guess I believe we could have healthy food again without the price getting out of hand.

I was  going  with   yields  from my  youth,   of   150-175...  to today's         250-300.        (in   the  same  particular area)        When  I  factored in the  recent  farm ground brought into  production in the last  4-5 years,   very marginal soils  that  had no business  being  plowed up.  (very poor  moisture and  fertilizer holding capacity)     THOSE  soils   would  barely support  native grass, let alone  a   high input crop such as    corn.   

 

I took a wild  swing to the fence,  and  said   'half'. 

 

There are  good  stewards such as your  example,  who rotate  crops  in a 2 or 3  yr.  rotation,  which  can  almost  sustain   the  fertility level.   But remember,    only  1 year in 2 or 3  raises  corn. (or  any  'starch' crop...wheat)     next year would be a  short crop, or even  fallow.  This  could be followed up with a  'green manure' type crop for the   eventual  corn crop on the  3rd year.   and  the   switch in crops  every year  helps  with  weeds, disease..  It's  a  long lost art,  and  a very good one.      This is not    a  continuous  cropping  scenario though.   In the years  that are planted to the 'main' crop... they do very well.   But  the fallow years  must be averaged in too.       either  buttloads ;)  of   animal manure  per acre  (organic)    or  commercial  fertilizer  needs  to be  placed on continuous, year after year, type  scenarios.   Depleted soil raises  nothing.

 

Convincing   farmers  with   millions of dollars  in  overhead,  land, and equipment     to   downshift  and  go  with a  'least input, least  income (gross)'   is/will be  a     ahem,   'tough row to hoe'...    especially  with  the    young buck  generation  being  only  taught from the  'experts'  of  the  'maximum in, maximum out'    type   operation..     I fear  we  are  'caught' in  a very nasty 'rut'.

 

I'm not  condemning or advocating  any  type.    But  I am willing to 'listen' to the consumer,  and   when  there is  a 'need',   (and  the money) to  back it up..       I  will sure  fall in line!

Right now,  I market my cattle as     'non-steroid'   type  cattle.      I still use     chemical  de-wormers,   antibiotics  are  used  to treat  illness- not continuous,   and    vaccines  are used to help  prevent  illness.        I cannot  claim  'all natural'..  just because  the corn they eat is  GMO  corn,   and  the  certain  chemicals   that are occasionally used  for  treatment of  some  ill calves.  

.....you and I    get sick from time to time,  and  seek  'treatment'  from the doc,   and  so do  cattle.      Pneumonia  is  probably  the  most common.

Edited December 27, 201410 yr by rancherman

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