Aftermarket AAPS??

[BIG-BLACK-DODGE]

I seen an aftermarket "commercial grade" or industrial grade AAOS... It's 200.00 us plus tax shipping duty exchange rate etc.

 

found some on ebay that seem to be garbage then found some other ones that are apparently good quality for a couple hundred bucks less...??

 

ISUMO is the brand... Anyone have any insite on this? Can i save some money or should i buy that comercial grade apps (tps)? I know there has to be a quality difference because i run D10 and D11 Cat Dozers in the Rocky Mountains of Canada here and they take one heck of a beating and we never have electrical issues... Those Cats never stop running 24-7 unless they are in for servicing... Up one side of the mountain and down the other and in 6 years saw one elect problem out of all our Dozers...

 

 

Also my truck cut right out the other day so i taped the pedal fast a couole times snd she came back to life. Set that 0121 code i think it is check engine light was on for that day then next day it was gone and is still gone. Truck seems to be running fine. Is this the beginning of my aaps going and can an aaps failure leave me stranded on the hwy??

Edited April 7, 2016 by BIG-BLACK-DODGE

[Dieselfuture]

I got mine from timbo like most people here, but also heard he has a bad one every so often but with no hassle exchanges it. I think it could leave you stranded if it was bad enough. In my mind it's like a resistor or rheostat, has coiled wire with a nidle riding on it. After time nidle flattens coil and coil sides start touching and arcing and so you lose that range. Maybe a guy could adjust set screw in a few turns so dead spot moves and relearn apps for temporary fix. Just a guess. But I wouldn't wait, I'd get one coming. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Also a Timbo's user too... No issues also cheaper at $160.

 

As for rheostat its actually a carbon track and the wiper blade eventually will wear through the carbon offsetting the voltage.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[dodgedieselnewbie]

It was suggested to me that I go with a  WellsVE APPS  if I were to need one. That it is a non contact, magnetic type with nothing to wear out. What are thoughts/experience on this?

[Mopar1973Man]

They still wear out. There will always be some sort of contact to resistance strip out that that you have a open circuit. So no matter Stock APPS, Timbo APPS or magnetic APPS you will always complete the circuit with a contact of some sort.

 

This circuit has to be the same no matter what you use.

[BIG-BLACK-DODGE]

Moparman, the prices i am refering to were Canadian dollars. I can get one for just a little over 100.00 cnd shipped to me and that Timbo is 200.00 U.S plus shipping, duty, exchange rate and taxes so about 270.00 cnd.

 

These ones have a two year wattanty as well. Are those Timbo AAPS' lifetime warranty?

 

And has an AAPS failure ever left anyone stranded? I' m alwsys miles away from anywhere on old logging roads etc so wondering if that ever happenes or what i need to do to fix it... I should but the new one in now then just keep mine for a spare and keep it and the tools in the truck to fix it. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

5 minutes ago, BIG-BLACK-DODGE said:

Are those Timbo AAPS' lifetime warranty?

 

Timbo APPS are not lifetime.

 

5 minutes ago, BIG-BLACK-DODGE said:

And has an AAPS failure ever left anyone stranded?

 

Not that I know of. Typically most just release the throttle and wait a few second and go right back to working. Basically if the rheostat wears and the voltage goes out of range the ECM ignores the signal hence the dead pedal and once the signal is normal again then the throttle works again. So if your having this issue then its time to resolve it.

 

7 minutes ago, BIG-BLACK-DODGE said:

I' m alwsys miles away from anywhere on old logging roads etc so wondering if that ever happenes or what i need to do to fix it...

 

I'm the same way. I'm always at least hundred miles from anywhere and without cell service. I've got my old stocker in the shop but I don't carry any parts in the truck.

 

I don't go into panic mode and ton of spare parts and tools in the truck. I can say in 261k miles I've never been left stranded or had to tow 2002 Dodge home. Now the 1996 Dodge did eat a PCM and required a tow. Things like this do happen. Like I've got a bail out bag behind my seat. Truck dies I attempt to figure out if I can repair if not the grab the bail out bag and do the "Heel Toe Express" to safety or help. 

[leathermaneod]

The wells tps does have a lifetime warranty. At least it does if you get it from autozone. They sell it under their brand of duralst. I dont know much about electronics, but I think the theory behind it lasting longer is due to the contacts not needing to rub against each other as in the Timbo. This is accomplished by use of the magnet. If you look on YouTube you can find a video where wells explains it.

 

Mike you should hold fundraisers specifically to buy parts and dissect them haha. Then you could really tell us which apps is better 

Edited April 8, 2016 by leathermaneod

[Mopar1973Man]

 

 

No matter what that W (Wiper) has to have contact with the resistance material. Other than that the ECM would be screaming about P codes for the APPS sensor. So as for the magnetic function the best I can thing of is using magnetics to pull the wiper around hoping to reduct contact pressure and wear of the resistance material. So the whole thing about nothing to wear out I highly doubt. Once again the wiper must stay in contact of the resistance material just like your fuel sender for your gauge when the wiper breaks the circuit you end up with a P0460 code.

 

So in the above picture consider A hooked pin 5, W hooked to pin 3, and B hooked to pin 4.  The only thing missing is IVS.

 

 

So in a nutshell dead pedal is when the APPS sensor goes out of range and the ECM ignores the APPS sensor out of safety to keep from having possible runaway condition. So as soon as the voltage of the APPS goes hi or lo the code is tripped instantly and the ECM drops the fueling to IDLE out of safety hence the dead pedal.

 

I know the Stock APPS relies on voltage to control the IVS switches and Timbo APPS controls the IVS by bellcrank angle. As for the Magnetic APPS I'm going to assume the same mechanical IVS setup but the rheostat is still a rheostat.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[TFaoro]

Here's the Wells. I like it. No contact involved.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok. That explains it... I've been hunting for the info on this... I've see reference to this before but never been able to find the video again. Thanks... TFaoro.

 

 

I still got my doubts on it. Still relying on electronic transducer. To toggle IVS and produce voltage range. Might not have rheostat but still electronics...

 

Time will tell. I graciously admit my lack of knowledge on the magnetic but still time will tell. Wonder how it does with high AC noise issues over time?

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[leathermaneod]

Lol that's exactly what I was going to do but you beat me to it. Definitely not trying to argue, because I know a lot of you guys know way more about electronics than I do, but they clearly advertise that it is no contact. I was under the impression that it works kind of like a wheel speed sensor for abs or traction control where the magnet moves and another component senses it's motion.

 

 

With it still using the IVS I'm kind of surprised that mine works ok being that I have it set so close the the lower limit of .5v. the instructions that come with it say to set it between .5 and .6. After talking with a slightly misinformed person I set mine to about .505. Mike you know what I'm talking about from our phone conversation. I wonder if I should change mine and get it closer to the middle of that range? Or just leave it be as long as it works? 

 

TFaoro, what voltage did you set yours at?

Edited April 8, 2016 by leathermaneod

[Mopar1973Man]

This is something I'm not liking about Wells... That fact here we are back to palying with setting voltages for IVS switch operation. Again going to get all kind of people screwed up about using the old OE APPS voltage tag numbers and no understanding the IVS function.

 

Here is the best homebrew design I know of.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertrain/54322-anatomy-apps-sequel.html#post536826

 

 

Again yeah electronics make the package smaller...

[leathermaneod]

yes I have seen and read that thread before. I am wondering if wells made their apps so that the .5-.6 range will always work? Is that possible? I'm guessing as long as it works and high idle works there is nothing to worry about. One problem I can see is for guys with autos and possible shifting issues...the other thing I'm concerned about for me is it getting out of range as it wears and no longer going into high idle. But if that happens I'll know why and go pick up my new one for free at autozone :-) 

[Royal Squire]

Check out the VP in the photo 

[JAG1]

Off topic a bit.... in the picture you can see a heat sink attached to the top of the VP's electronics. Now I thought I was the only one that did that.

[Me78569]

haha I joked about that years ago.  

 

 

[leathermaneod]

Would a heat sink on top even do anything? Isn't there too much plastic there for it to really transfer the heat to the sink so it can dissipate?

[JAG1]

I don't know really. Years ago I took apart a cheap battery charger out of my rv, but, found a nice size heat sink inside  So I used an aluminum based gutter glue and stuck it to the top of the VP. I did drive the truck long distances for 4 years on the 0216 code and Mikes fuel Milk  

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, leathermaneod said:

I am wondering if wells made their apps so that the .5-.6 range will always work? Is that possible?

 

That why I love the Timbo's vs OE there is no voltage to set. Now Wells and OE APPS are voltage based and will have to set below the throttle trigger point. Good it doesn't wear bad it voltage based again. I already see people getting wind of this and attempting to match the old tag value again that is wrong for both OE and Wells. It should be below the trigger voltage.