Manual Trans Conversion - Seeking Advice/Tips/Issues/etc

[BBHD]

On August 28, 2016 at 2:53 PM, NightHawk said:

Hey Everyone,

 

I have 300miles on the setup now, and promise to get a video going shortly once i have a willing copilot. 

 

I do have one thing (prob tune related since its an auto tune still) and that is 3rd gear under light load (no boost) has some noticeable sound increase in the injection cycle (aka timing).   This is with the TS MVP all the way up (what other setting is there with a manual, not a stock auto ).

 

Anybody have thoughts on this, occurs about 25mph/1500-1600rpm by as soon as you give it enough throttle to build boost it completely goes away.  Also, anyone have a smarty S03 i can barrow or purchase....

 

 

I'm also running a TS MVP. I typically have mine turned back just a fuzz from all the way up because I was getting the same "timing rattle" when my engine temps were cold as @dripley said especially when towing a load. I tested it again Saturday morning as I was moving my trailer with a load of shingles ~10k and 36*F out. Turned all the way up a slight rattle 1600-1700. Backed the dial down a fuzz(1/16") and it was gone. I could only get it to do it when my engine temp was cold no difference when it warmed up. 

[NightHawk]

On 9/6/2016 at 0:27 PM, notlimah said:

I meant to ask, where did you end up buying your parts from? I think I've all but convinced myself I need to do a manual swap but I'm going to double/triple check everything before I start the swap so I can avoid any unnecessary down time for the swap.

 

I can provide a full list of parts and some vendors later today/tomorrow, however not to question your skills but I am at the same time.  What's the closest mechanical task to a conversion you have done on your own?  This swap is not for the average DIYer, I was fortunate enough to already removed a few transmissions & replace them (like for like) before my conversion.

On 9/6/2016 at 7:11 PM, dripley said:

I get rattle in mine around 1750 to 1850 rpm when the engine is cold, <150* or so, under medium throttle. Never had this before adding the Comp. Not sure it is the same thing or not. Just putting it out here.

 

Mine had the rattle regardless of engine temp, it was more air temp related for me. During the morning/even when it cools is when I notice it compared to driving around mid-day.

 

On 9/6/2016 at 8:00 PM, BBHD said:

I'm also running a TS MVP. I typically have mine turned back just a fuzz from all the way up because I was getting the same "timing rattle" when my engine temps were cold as @dripley said especially when towing a load. I tested it again Saturday morning as I was moving my trailer with a load of shingles ~10k and 36*F out. Turned all the way up a slight rattle 1600-1700. Backed the dial down a fuzz(1/16") and it was gone. I could only get it to do it when my engine temp was cold no difference when it warmed up. 

 

I played with the adjustments since posting what I found with the rattle and messing around with the settings made it more pronounced (all the way up) to gone (off position).  As noted above, mine was related to air temp and not engine temp, it would produce the timing rattle on a cold or full temp engine.  Currently its at 100% so i will back of slightly but since messing around with the settings, it hasn't really comeback to the same extent as before or maybe I have gotten "use" to the additional noise.

 

I will say this though...since I am using opti-lube with cetane boost, I believe that may create the more pronounced noise of the timing advance during a low load condition.  I will be trying opti-lube's other product with no added cetane (just lubrication) to see if their is a change prior to flashing with the manual tune file.

 

[notlimah]

23 minutes ago, NightHawk said:

I can provide a full list of parts and some vendors later today/tomorrow, however not to question your skills but I am at the same time.  What's the closest mechanical task to a conversion you have done on your own?  This swap is not for the average DIYer, I was fortunate enough to already removed a few transmissions & replace them (like for like) before my conversion.

 

A parts list and vendors would be awesome! I have never done a trans swap or anything like it, but my brother would be helping with the swap and has done tons or trans swaps and a lot of custom jobs so we should be covered.

[NightHawk]

On 9/10/2016 at 0:33 PM, notlimah said:

 

A parts list and vendors would be awesome! I have never done a trans swap or anything like it, but my brother would be helping with the swap and has done tons or trans swaps and a lot of custom jobs so we should be covered.

 

Sounds like you have a good helping hand, which will be needed from start to finish as 75% is a 2 person job.  I will gather all of my misc. invoices/part list this week and pm you the info. 

 

One thing to note, I am not sure of why you plan to work on this swap (weekends/during the week) but expect it to be 40 man hrs of time from start to finish.  This equaled 4 weekends for me, but i have a second vehicle for work so it didn't impact me but you will not finish in a single weekend.

[notlimah]

Thanks @NightHawk! I really appreciate it! It'll definitely help out when it comes time to do my swap. I planned on just taking some time off work to do this so I'd have plenty of time.

 

Mine might be a little bit before the swap just because my auto is working fine now, but at 175k and growing I'm sure I'll see signs of wear and tear soon so I want to be ready when it happens!

[Mopar1973Man]

On 9/6/2016 at 8:11 PM, dripley said:

I get rattle in mine around 1750 to 1850 rpm when the engine is cold, <150* or so, under medium throttle. Never had this before adding the Comp. Not sure it is the same thing or not. Just putting it out here.

 

 

 

Normal. That the timing it adds to the VP44. Gets worse as winter comes on...

 

I like automatics for little cars and such but automatic trucks are not that good for towing at all. Only 4 gears and manuals of 5 and 6 speed flavors. Still kind of dumbfounded about Dodge design of the 5 and 6 speed and gear ratios. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[NightHawk]

Hi Everyone,

 

We as an updated, the truck now has a manual tune!!!  I worked with Bob W. to get the manual tune, picked up a tuner and uploaded into the ECM tonight. The truck drives awesome with the (N) manual tune (there is a big difference on fuel curve), however I still have a check engine light/3 DTC's which are noted below. 

 

I have reached out to Bob & reported my results to make sure I did everything correctly, but any help/feedback on my steps below is appreciated and once step closer to completing my project

 

 

1. Old (Auto) ECM Tune DTC's: P0753 & P1763 (did not clear before recovery..is that a mistake by me and should I redo the recovery file clearing all DTC's beforehand?)

 

2. Post (N) Recovery File DTC's: P1693, P1694, P0753 & P1763 (right after tune was uploaded)

 

3. Post (N) Recovery File - Cleared All DTC's, started truck check engine light popped up and P1693, P0753 & P1763 came back on the tuner.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Need to deal with the PCM side now and get rid of the auto tune in the PCM.

[98whitelightnin]

Seems like I had cel too so I just took out the bulb. Thinking back, that cel may have come up when I p-pumped the truck but either way, I removed the bulb.

[NightHawk]

Been awhile so thought would be good to update.

 

I took the truck on its first major trip this past weekend, headed out of state to visit friends & ski.  The total miles was 750 (375 each way) and the truck performed well but not perfect. I still need to address the PCM issue but the major thorn in my side is a leaky T-case. 

 

The t-case half split seam started to leak again (along with the fill plug area) somewhere along the way back.  I would estimate it occurred after pulling the steep mountain grades as I noticed some splatter on the driveline/tank when stopping for fuel.  The 241HDH tcase (what i have) takes 6.5 pints for full, so going to drain/confirm how much lost although it doesn't appear to be more then a pint.  

 

Just thinking out loud, I know ATF expands so could the AFT expansion caused the leak?  Its been fine for roughly 1500 miles since the conversion/post my re-seal so just odd to start again.  Although my previous trips have been less then 100 miles round trip.  

 

 

[jlbayes]

The pcm issue may or may not be simple depending on the options your truck has. It will need another pcm as they are locked when flashed with no way to wipe them easily. Dealer cannot.

[NightHawk]

15 hours ago, jlbayes said:

The pcm issue may or may not be simple depending on the options your truck has. It will need another pcm as they are locked when flashed with no way to wipe them easily. Dealer cannot.

 

I am in process of ordering one from a reputable rebuilder. I spoke with them on the phone and they said if I give them the part number, vin and select manual transmission there shouldn't be any problems. Not sure how true that is, i know my factory heated seats aren't that common.

 

The transfercase just makes me mad

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

Have you checked the transfer case vent?

[jlbayes]

9 hours ago, NightHawk said:

 

I am in process of ordering one from a reputable rebuilder. I spoke with them on the phone and they said if I give them the part number, vin and select manual transmission there shouldn't be any problems. Not sure how true that is, i know my factory heated seats aren't that common.

 

The transfercase just makes me mad

 

Vin will select auto trans. By default if you use yours. Seats are not controlled by the pcm. Security would be the issue. If yours does or does not have it. You realistically need a vin with all the options in the pcm as yours has with the exception of a manual trans.

Edited March 2, 2017 by jlbayes

[BBHD]

My truck has what you're looking for minus heated seats if it may help. Mine has the security. Will it being a 2000 vs. 2001 make a difference?

Edited March 2, 2017 by BBHD

[NightHawk]

12 hours ago, jlbayes said:

 

Vin will select auto trans. By default if you use yours. Seats are not controlled by the pcm. Security would be the issue. If yours does or does not have it. You realistically need a vin with all the options in the pcm as yours has with the exception of a manual trans.

 

Well i won't  know until its installed but they told me the vin request is only to ensure the pcm and ecm communicate correctly and no pats issuse. Programming for trans is a drop down selection and they told me i can note the conversion in the special instructions area.

 

We shall see but others on this site have gotten manual pcms with auto vins without issue.

 

What is "security" as i have keyless entry which thought that was it for my year besides pats.

Edited March 3, 2017 by NightHawk

[jlbayes]

14 hours ago, BBHD said:

My truck has what you're looking for minus heated seats if it may help. Mine has the security. Will it being a 2000 vs. 2001 make a difference?

 

Will not work. Again the heated seats are not controlled by the pcm.

 

10 hours ago, NightHawk said:

 

Well i won't  know until its installed but they told me the vin request is only to ensure the pcm and ecm communicate correctly and no pats issuse. Programming for trans is a drop down selection and they told me i can note the conversion in the special instructions area.

 

We shall see but others on this site have gotten manual pcms with auto vins without issue.

 

What is "security" as i have keyless entry which thought that was it for my year besides pats.

 

I am telling you what the tool will do. This is what I do for work. As soon as the tool sees the vin it will automatically select the file for YOUR truck and upload an auto file. There is no pats (different manufactures security system). There is a panic alarm (not anti theft) and then there is a security alarm. The ecm will not care what vin is in the pcm and vice versa. Only an emissions tester will. If you send me the last 8 of the vin I can tell you exactly what options your vin was built with.

[NightHawk]

5 hours ago, jlbayes said:

I am telling you what the tool will do. This is what I do for work. As soon as the tool sees the vin it will automatically select the file for YOUR truck and upload an auto file. There is no pats (different manufactures security system). There is a panic alarm (not anti theft) and then there is a security alarm. The ecm will not care what vin is in the pcm and vice versa. Only an emissions tester will. If you send me the last 8 of the vin I can tell you exactly what options your vin was built with.

 

I must go thru emissions testing where they plug the truck into the computer (no snap test), and last 8 of vin is 1J288451.  All your help is appreciated, I can only go off what the company told me when i call last month but now understand better.  

 

Anyway around this automatic "flash" association with the vin?

Edited March 3, 2017 by NightHawk

[jlbayes]

Here is your build sheet. Oddly enough it does have security. Will the emissions check, check for a vin mismatch? The ecm can be reflashed if it requires one.

 

[NightHawk]

9 hours ago, jlbayes said:

Here is your build sheet. Oddly enough it does have security. Will the emissions check, check for a vin mismatch? The ecm can be reflashed if it requires one.

 

Thanks for the build sheet, and any special precautions with security if i order a pcm?

 

The testing is involves entering the trucks information into the computer, they plug into the obII port and then hit some button.  Usually 10-15min later the testing is done.  They're concerned with emissions codes, regular codes and modifications.  

 

I am not sure how the whole pcm/ecm communicate with regards to codes. Like does the pcm report to ecm and ecm reads thru the obII port of is their direct communication with the pcm thru the obII port?  If the pcm only reports problems, could i use my vin number with the trans option line switched to a manual number?  

 

Per the vin decoder http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/VIN_decode.htm the last 6 digits are options which could in therory be off...