Fuel Additives

[leathermaneod]

Hi all,

I was wondering if we could start a good fuel additive thread, something that covers 2 stroke in depth as well as other conventional, off the shelf stuff. Also, what adding cetane does, and how sulfur factors in and parts per million and emulsifiers an all. I bring this up because I was part of a recent thread on another forum where a guy was asking for opinions on Howe's Diesel Treat. I commented that I would just stick with 2 stroke unless you are somewhere really cold, then I would add PS white bottle too, in the appropriate amount of course. Anyway someone chimed in claiming that 2 stroke is mostly just kerosene, and that he had the MSDS to prove it. Same person also said they would use a little gasoline as an antigel. I've seen an MSDS for 2 stroke and I'm pretty sure there was no kerosene on it. I guess what I'm saying is, I'd just like to learn a lot more about fuel and additives and I know there are some guys out there who know all there is to know and I'd like to pick their brains! 

Thanks to anyone who chimes in!

[Me78569]

I am not convinced that there is kerosense in 2 stroke.  It doesn't make sense seeing as 2 stroke is put in place to lube a 2 stroke engine.   Kerosene does not decrease hfrr so why would they use it?

[leathermaneod]

I am not convinced either, but thats why I started this :-) what is "hfrr"?

[Me78569]

 

We have articles for this haha.

 

HFRR

https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/fuel_diesel_lubricity.php

 

 

 

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/general-cummins/84_engine/92_fuel_92/

 

 

Common MSDS scheets

 

anti Gel

 

 

Diesel Cetane

 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Me78569

[leathermaneod]

lol ok thanks. I did a quick google search before starting, but didn't see anything. Must have missed that.

[Me78569]

No worries, 

 

Spend some time in the general cummins article section under fuel.  TONS of good articles.  

[leathermaneod]

I will thank you! Btw, for what its worth, I just looked at 2 different MSDS for 2 cycle oils. They have two ingredients listed and neither is kero. 

[Me78569]

that's what I tried to point out to him..... lol.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

Anyway someone chimed in claiming that 2 stroke is mostly just kerosene, and that he had the MSDS to prove it

 

I'd love to see this... Can you get a copy of this MSDS sheet.

 

1 hour ago, leathermaneod said:

I'd just like to learn a lot more about fuel and additives and I know there are some guys out there who know all there is to know and I'd like to pick their brains! 

 

As for fuel additives most over the counter products are cetane boosters which is a bad thing MPG wise. This the key reason why MPG falls in the winter is the cetane value is increased in the winter time and the BTU's are reduced. 2 Cycle oil is a natural cetane reducer or a BTU increaser. As for HFRR you want a fuel score of less that 450 HFRR for optimal fuel system life. So the 2 cycle oil theory originally was started by a member here @dorkweed which started the idea I'm the one that pushed it forward. So if you got questions about 2 cycle oil usage and how it works chemically I'm sure I can fill your head with all kinds of information. Most 2 cycle oil today is mostly highly refined oil that is ashless no soft metals like zinc added. So I've got a hard time believing the 2 cycle oil being mostly kerosene... I'd still like to see. I know Supertech is produced by PennzOil.

 

SuperTech 2 Cycle Oil.

http://ilrc.ucf.edu/documents/ILRC 00000639/NCFS_639 Super Tech Universal 2 Cycle.pdf

 

 

 

As for my injection pump its got 214k miles on it and still going strong. I've been using 2 cycle oil for over 183k miles with no impact to the fuel system, filters, injectors or injection pump.

 

Oh try and catch me now on the MPG numbers...

Edited June 22, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[JAG1]

It is amazing what some folks will post up and state as facts and cannot back it up with facts. I have been mislead with other subjects in the past.

 

I will always stick with the 2 cycle oil for an additive. You really notice a difference driving an old 12 valve when you dump it in the tank. IIt's always a big improvement.

[dripley]

I have run 2 stroke for near 6 years and the only thing that has got me somewhat away from it is the presence of Bio diesel. Since 5% or less does not have to be labeled it is kind of a crap shoot. I am still working in the area I live and pretty much believe that is the mix i am getting everywhere. I still put one half quart per fill up to be safe. There are some good additives listed above but the 2 stroke is available every where I go.

 I just got thru building a Love's travel center in Virginia and with my road travels and talking to the manager here 15% Bio is Love's standard. Bio at 5% and my truck at get along very well. 

 

Anything over 5% has to be labeled. Probably the only reg that is nation wide right now.

Edited June 24, 2016 by dripley

[notlimah]

So just so I can understand the bio diesel pro/con. The higher the % the better for our trucks? Also the higher the % the less critical it is to run 2cycle in tanks?

[dripley]

I am just speaking personally here about the Bio Diesel. My truck likes the bio, in either 5 to 15% range. It does not seem to affect my mileage. It does have a lower BTU's than straight #2 diesel. Mike has some good info on that. I have been getting some good mileage lately due to the trips I am making thru the mountains at much lower speeds. That and the comp have skewed my numbers from what I would normally see. My next job is in Richmond Va and will be straight interstate runs which is more the norm for me. We shall see how that turns out. Again this is just my personal observations and nothing scientific. Bio and my truck are happy together. Google it and you can see whats out there about it. Thats what I did. The part that bugs me is the 5% or less thing and it not having to be labeled. Your are just not sure what you are getting

[JAG1]

2 hours ago, dripley said:

 The part that bugs me is the 5% or less thing and it not having to be labeled. Your are just not sure what you are getting

Filtration other than Chryslers filters then is all the more important. Having a prefilter w/ not too small micron filtration is just as important as the final filtration being small enough micron to be effective for the vp.

[dripley]

One of the things that I did read was the bio was more solvent like than the diesel and that it would clean the crud out of the fuel system and likely clog the filters. I have not experience anything like that. I do run a Donaldson P550550 for a prefilter and a Donaldson P551315 for an after filter. I currently dont have a filter in the oe canister. Need to get one someday.

 When I had the tank out to install my AD, the tank itself appeared very clean other than a few specs floating around in the tank. Not sure what crud the bio would knock loose unless it was in the fuel lines. I never experienced any premature filter clogging. 

 @jag I am assuming that you are brought this up just to reinforce the importance of good filtration or is there something you know about the bio being dirtier than regular #2?

[leathermaneod]

@dripley could you post some pics of how you have your filters set up if you get a chance? Ive always wanted to add something better to mine, but thats one bad thing about the Fuel Boss. Its kinda hard to find room between it and the VP....I run the baldwin PF7977 filters because they are 5 micron I believe(please correct me if I'm wrong), but ive always wanted something better...

[dripley]

I just have a standard Air Dog set up. The filter block and the pump are all mounted together. Looks almost identical to Mike's setup except mine is on the inside of the frame rail. I can still get a picture if want it. Shes sitting on jack stands at the moment.

[leathermaneod]

oh ok gotcha! no nvm on the pics. When you said the donaldson filters, i thought you meant different filter heads too. forgot you had an airdog. why is your truck on stands?

[JAG1]

18 minutes ago, dripley said:

 

 @jag I am assuming that you are brought this up just to reinforce the importance of good filtration or is there something you know about the bio being dirtier than regular #2?

I really never experienced bad fuel from anywhere Dave. I have seen some water separated out of my fuel and some dirt that lay in the bottom of my clear bowl on my big filter. I have read about some bad experiences people had with bad fuel, I know that it is very important to have some added filtration.

[leathermaneod]

@JAG1do you have any recommendations on what filter to add to the stock canister? and how to mount it?