Codes and more codes

[DocH]

Hello Fellow Mopar Folks!!

Man am I Glad I found this forum!!

I hope I am not duplicating a previous post/topic, but I am one puzzled Guy!

2001(Early Build -Actual Build Date on door sticker=03/2000) 2500 4wd with Vin 6 CTD,  Quad cab, 155 inch w/b, 47RE, 161k. Only Mods= Banks Big Hoss Tuner( #62782) that does NOT tap the pump wire, K&N air cleaner, and 4 inch stainless Turbo-back ehaust.

Oem lift pump and VP44 replaced in 2012 with 114k on the odometer

03/16  Thermostat (Stant 14289 190 degrees)

03/16  2nd lift pump ( SPECTRA PREMIUM SP1128 ) @ approx 155k, replaced fuel lines to and from tank with stainless steel

04/16 MAP Sensor    (Turbo Boost sensor is what the Mechanic called it)

05/16 Coolant Sensor @ 159k

07/15 THR123+Wire  (Throttle Position Sensor)

08/16  Blue Chip Diesel Low Pressure Fuel Warning Kit (shows fuel pressure from lift pump at Banjo Bolt on side of VP44)

08/16 3rd lift pump  ( Airtex E7153)

08/16 IAT Sensor     (ATS 23)

08/16 Fuel Return Valve (Mopar Brand Banjo Bolt on VP44 - Mopar part # 0501 1824 AA)

09/16  Fuel Pump Relay (Wells 19283)

09/16  DB Electrical  New, not Reman  Alternator (Part #'s: AND 0272, 56027221AD, 334-1409 56027221AD 13874, 121000-4481) which hopefully will be

installed this coming Sunday.

Regular fuel filter changes ( Hastings FF1260 filter,  5 micron as per Hasting Engineer stated during phone call to Hastings)

I have been running Wal-Mart 2-stroke oil for the last 20k or so

The truck starts and idles fine when cold, but I can put the pedal to the floor, and after about a 3-4 second delay, it will start to Slowly rev up...almost to redline if I let it.

But as soon as I let off of the pedal , even a little bit, it drops back to idle.

Here is a list of the codes I am finding:

3X Ignition Key codes: P0123, P1693

Low-Cost OBD II Scanner: P0237, P0123, P1689, P0216

The Banks tuner is showing  a diagnosis code that a Banks Tech Support Engineer called a CAN Bus Communication problem, but it has been that way for awhile, and the truck never seemed to notice it, other than the power was back to what felt like "stock", and the mileage was down from what it used to get when the Banks Big Hoss was working.

I have done the "Dielectric grease" procedure on the electrical connectors I can reach, but still need to clean all of the ground connections.  Plenty of diesel in the tank, and I have been in the habit of popping the hood open when I shut down....hoping to minimize the "heat soak" on the various computerized components. In fact My Brother kids Me that I am going to wear out the hood latch!

I am hoping that the new alternator may solve issues, but am hoping Someone has ideas on what is going on!

The Mechanic that replaced the Oem VP44 assured Me that it was a Good Quality Reman VP44, and I have had no reason to not trust Him for the last 13 years, but He passed away and I have no way of knowing who actually re-manufactured  the pump.

Doug at Bluechip said it was not one of Theirs...

Attached pics are of the Re-Man VP 44...maybe Somebody will recognize the manufacturer!

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

Ed

PS: I hope it is OK to mention Brand Names...Please let Me know if I oops in one of My posts!!

 

 

 

[TFaoro]

22 minutes ago, DocH said:

K&N air cleaner

This would be a good thing to ditch. Look up BHAF. They filter much better and you don't have to worry about dusting the motor.

 

25 minutes ago, DocH said:

P0237, P0123, P1689, P0216

P0237 is the MAP sensor. I would try some dielectric grease on that first.

P0123 is the APPS (accelerator petal position sensor) Sounds like it's not adjusted right.

P0216 - This is not good.... This is usually the death code for the VP44. 

P1689 is no communication between the ECM and VP44.

 

These are serious codes that point to a vp44 failure. Read over the article for each code, and you can do some testing to determine exactly what is going on. 

 

Here's the codes:

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/51_engine/obdii-error-codes_94/?page=1&d=4

 

[DocH]

Hi TFaoro,

Thanks for the Fast reply!

I will go over the articles, and Thanks for Your input!!

Ed 

[dripley]

Do you know what your fuel pressure is like? The 216 and 1689 together are not looking good for the VP. Like @TFaoro says read up on the codes and do some testing. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Personally, the P1689 could be an alternator AC noise issue that caused damage to the VP44 injection. The P0216 code is either fuel pressure issue or a lack of lubricity and seized the timing piston on the injection pump. If it is seized then pump is ruined. The P0237 is most likely either a failed MAP sensor or wiring issue so @TFaoro idea is valid it may gain a better connection. Don't bother cleaning the sensor it will not fix it. As for the P0123 it most likely a failing APPS sensor. I'm not very fond of doing adjustments to them being that most adjust them too high attempting to match some number which you not suppose to do. It suppose to be below any tag value by at least 0.1 volts. 

[Hawkez]

You don't mention anything about a fuel pressure gauge.  You really ought to have the capability of reading fuel pressure from inside the cab.  Your VP44 really needs to see 14PSI and higher and a low pressure warning light will not do you much good as pressure between idle and WOT can drastically change.

 

Before you change your alternator you ought to see how much AC voltage it is putting our.  There are A LOT of posts about doing this on this site.  @Mopar1973Man has a great video that could be useful to you. 

 

I am hoping that it isn't the IP, but if it is, you are going to want to look into what is causing them to fail.  AC voltage from the alternator? Poor FP from the LP?

 

Anyway, welcome to the site and you will certainly find a plethora of information for those that frequent here. 

[klcammie]

The 216 can also be caused by a loose electrical connection. I had that happen to me. The big one with the white bale. 

The bale should be to the left.

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by klcammie
remove one pix.

[DocH]

Hi Folks!

The 1st thing I want to say is : T H A N K S !!

I don't recall Ever having so many helpful, informative replies in such a short time on a Forum before!!

 As I am not very good at the "wrenching" part of things ( I can read and mostly understand the info, but when it comes to the hands-on part, I have to mainly rely on People who do this for a living, I will print this out and go over it with a Friend who has owned 3 or 4 of these rigs.

This is My 3rd Dodge CTD in a row (#1>94 12 valve, 2> 98 CTD, 3> 01 CTD ) and I have never run across these issue before. But I have never owned one as long as this one.

 

Probably a dumb question, but is having an auto parts store check the alternator of any use?

I don't have a multi-meter and have never used one.

My job before My lumbar spine metamorphosed into a titanium-supported spine was was taking Xrays, so I am pretty much a Newbie in the diesel engine area!

Thanks again, and I will keep checking back!

Regards,

Ed

[Mopar1973Man]

Yes... If you can get the alternator removed form the vehicle a part store should be able to tell you if the alternator is functioning correctly or not. Problem is does the store workers understand how to test them and check for diode ripple or AC noise issues? Some stores are on their game others just hire the punk kids and they don't have a clue.

[DocH]

30 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Thanks!

I am thinking that once I have the OEM alternator removed, might as well put the new one in.

What do You think?

The OEM has 161k, and it is kind of hard to see, but the alternator got a pretty good dose of oil, and below the pulley it is  is oil covered.

I have the crankcase breather tube extended now.

Thanks,

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes... If you can get the alternator removed form the vehicle a part store should be able to tell you if the alternator is functioning correctly or not. Problem is does the store workers understand how to test them and check for diode ripple or AC noise issues? Some stores are on their game others just hire the punk kids and they don't have a clue.

Hi Folks!

The 1st thing I want to say is : T H A N K S !!

I don't recall Ever having so many helpful, informative replies in such a short time on a Forum before!!

 As I am not very good at the "wrenching" part of things ( I can read and mostly understand the info, but when it comes to the hands-on part, I have to mainly rely on People who do this for a living, I will print this out and go over it with a Friend who has owned 3 or 4 of these rigs.

This is My 3rd Dodge CTD in a row (#1>94 12 valve, 2> 98 CTD, 3> 01 CTD ) and I have never run across these issue before. But I have never owned one as long as this one.

 

Probably a dumb question, but is having an auto parts store check the alternator of any use?

I don't have a multi-meter and have never used one.

My job before My lumbar spine metamorphosed into a titanium-supported spine was was taking Xrays, so I am pretty much a Newbie in the diesel engine area!

Thanks again, and I will keep checking back!

Regards,

Ed

Edited September 11, 2016 by DocH
Add Pics

[Mopar1973Man]

Here is my test video on how to do it yourself...

 

0.010 to 0.030 is normal and good.

0.05 is marginal and some report weird and random problems.

0.1 is a fail. This will cause problems and issues with the vehicle.

 

[dripley]

Mike is right on about the parts houses and testing. There machines are capable but the operators hit and miss at best. They have told me in the past "It is new in the box what could wrong with it". Then mention AC noise and the looks you get are priceless. As a member that is electrically challenged the test for AC voltage is easy. You just need a good meter to do it with. If you plan on keeping the truck for a while it is a worth while investment. Diagnostics can cost as much as replacing the parts.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'll have to give Dave that one he's right on the ball. It is rather priceless seeing the pup's behind the counter and asking them for diode ripple test or AC noise test and typically they go hunt down the senior employee to ask what you are talking about. A good DVM (Digital Volt Meter) is roughly around the $90 to 120 mark typically. This is a tool that will be valuable for years to come. My Fluke 75 I bought 25 years ago still working flawless.

[IBMobile]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

As a member that is electrically challenged the test for AC voltage is easy. 

 Dave is right.  If you can see, turn a knob and hold a probe or alligator clamp you've got it made. You pick the right function, touch the probes to the right contacts and read the results just like a lab class in school.  A 12 volt DC system will not hurt you.

 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 It is rather priceless seeing the pup's behind the counter and asking them for diode ripple test or AC noise test.

I like it when they ask if I want to Super Size my order.

[Mopar1973Man]

28 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

I like it when they ask if I want to Super Size my order.

[dripley]

that is a fuuny-un right there. i dont care what you say,

[DocH]

Hey Guys!

A little update...

We swapped the old apps back in and it would run Ok, then kind of dead pedal, then by working the go pedal up and down, she would wake back up in Full-cry!

Out for a drive and the periodic dead pedal would occur, then back to running well.

Then the OD lock-out light came on and stayed on.

Shut Her down, re-started and OD light went out.

after about 30 mins of mixed hi-way town and freeway (Ran strong right up to 90 mph without a hiccup), then we were heading back and at about 60, as we backed-off the fuel for a down-hill, She shifted down rather abruptly to 2nd gear, then all of a sudden started to behave again Runs smooth, no smoke, no bucking, no missing etc...

Strangeness abounds!!

 

Here are the codes now after the drive with the old APPS installed:

3x key :P0122, P0123, P1693

OBDII Scanner: P0121, P0122, P0123, P0216, P0234, P0237, P1689

My Friend who does My wrench work is thinking that it MAY not be the VP44 dying after all.

He suggests an OEM APPS (TPS), but as I am on a fixed income, I am open to suggestions as to a less spendy option for the APPS.

Since the New alternator is here, should I go ahead and replace the oem unit (the serpetine belt NEEDS replacement anyway...the current belt  is #2 in the lifetime of the truck and is showing serious signs of wear) along with the replacement TPS?

 

Thoughts on the Timbo unit?

 

Also wondering about the KW5535 Noise Filter by DTT....

 

Thanks Much for Your patience with Me!!

Ed

[notlimah]

Avoid at all costs anything 'noise cancelling' as that is only a bandaid fix to the actual problem. 

 

If its AC noise causing issues, the replace he alternator, plain and simple. 

 

As as far as your APPS, perfectly fine to get a timbo! They're Jesper then OEM and work better to boot so win win!

[Mopar1973Man]

9 hours ago, DocH said:

Also wondering about the KW5535 Noise Filter by DTT....

 

Do NOT install any noise filters... 

[DocH]

8 hours ago, notlimah said:

Avoid at all costs anything 'noise cancelling' as that is only a bandaid fix to the actual problem. 

 

If its AC noise causing issues, the replace he alternator, plain and simple. 

 

As as far as your APPS, perfectly fine to get a timbo! They're Jesper then OEM and work better to boot so win win!

Thanks much for the fast reply!

As Big Blue (The Kids got a kick out of that name for the truck, so it kind of stuck!) is Our daily driver, being down has really put a crimp in life.....(Thank Goodness for the Enterprise Weekend special rate)

Really hoping to get the rig solid for a trip to Klickitat County, WA. in Nov.

Grew up out West and its looking like We maybe moving there!

 

I will be so Happy to be rid of the salt used on the roads here in Up State NY.

After 15 years here, the rig, to Me , looks like it is ready for the scrapyard!  But The Young Man who is an absolute Genius when it comes to practically anything with wheels and a motor, keeps reassuring Me that Big Blue has many more miles to run!

 

Speaking of the damage that salt does, has anybody used a product called Chassis Saver?

Not to wander of-course on the thread here, but has anybody used it, and if so, how did it work out?

 

Thanks again All,

Ed