Ground posts and preservatives

[hex0rz]

I know there are a few of you on here that live the country or construction life. I'm having a hard time deciding on what to do. I'm adamant about a garden this year. But whats stopping me is having adequate fencing to keep the deer out. I don't exactly want to spend much money on fencing to make this happen as my dollars are going out of the pocket at every angle. So I'm inquiring to great minds, to see if there is truly a solution to this.

 

I have MANY, many lodgepole pine logs that I have on the property. They are the PERFECT size for posts, but I cannot decide on what to do to preserve them. I do realize that they can be a poor choice in wood. They are used, though. I've seemed to have read it all about using preservatives and where to apply, etc. But truly, what is actually standing the test of time? I've heard about charring the ends, I have heard about charring the ends and applying used motor oil/diesel mix. I have heard about using just a sleeve at the ground level, wrapping the buried end with tar paper, to brushing tar on. I have read about using copper napthenate, with or without diesel or kerosene. Linseed oil, tung oil, the list goes on!

 

But what I don't read about is from those who have actually done something like this and have the test of time behind them to prove it. While I don't need that for total validity, it would be nice to know if its something you have to do as a procedure from say, industry standards, etc.

 

Currently, I'm leaning the copper napthenate route. Its about $150 for a 5-gallon pail at home depot. Does not need diluted, either. I speculate that I would need around 18 posts. The 4x4x12 posts from home depot are $13.67 a post. I guess it comes down to whats my time worth, and whether or not I can get away with only needing to coat the lower 5 feet of the poles instead of needing the whole post treated. Does anyone know if a pine post untreated above ground would last long?

 

I really 'am a person that likes to do something right the first time. But the addage has exceptions, to me. If I can DIY it and still get the same result for less, I usually do it. Whats everyone's opinion that has experience on this issue?

[JAG1]

My opinion is use the copper Napth for the in ground part but don't anchor them in concrete so when you need to change one out it will be easier. Anchor them in small gravel. or well draining sandy soil is even better.

 

I built a fence the same way without any treatment and it lasted 15 years. After that things started to go fast.

[dripley]

Water is the enemy. There are other woods that might be better than pine it depends on what is more local to you area. Nothing wrong with PT pine but some is treated for above ground and not ground contact. It will usually state which it is on the lumber. Adding the copper napth will help the buried portion. If the soil you are working in drains well back filling with small stone like @JAG1 says will help keep the water away but if it has a lot of clay it might hold the water against the post. Concrete might be better for keeping it away but is a good bit more difficult to replace. Not sure there is any one way that is the best. Just depends on how much cash you want to spend. The pine is probably the easiest and most economical way to go. Cut the top of the post on a slight angle to let water run off and put some of the copper napth on them. Then let them weather and dry out before doing any thing else to them.

 There is alot different ways to a fence and as many different opinions. As stated before water is the common enemy to any of them.

[JAG1]

my untreated fence that lasted 15 years was buried in packed clay loam, not good for drainage. I did not use gravel, but was easy to change out a post later. I see people put the fence in concrete and then it's a bear getting it out later unless you relocate the posts (change the frame rails too. I noticed even the treated posts for ground contact don't last as long as they used to.

[Killer223]

do you have juniper trees in your area? shaggy bark? those would be the best to use. else not much is going to last long.

that said, i'd soak the posts in the preservative for at least a week before placing in the ground.

after soaking i'd wrap them with the aluminum flashing, it comes in roles at depot. that'll keep the dirt off, seal the top and bottom with a good silicone, then place in a graveled bed.

the pretreatment in a bucket of preservative will be the best you can do, and the longer you let them soak the better,

water isn't the bad guy here, air is. you can bury a post in water and itll last for decades, (alaska building stilts) but soon as air gets to it, it rots away.

[01cummins4ever]

 

 

I have replaced barbed wire fence around my place that had cedar, or juniper post I believe are about the same, that's been in the ground for 50 years and some were still solid, so I just used them for firewood. I ended up replacing the whole fence using 6" round PT post every 50' with metal t post in between. but in your case if you are going with the pine, like stated above treating them should last many years, I framed up a firewood shed about 10 years ago using 4" square rough cut post and treated and cemented them 36' in ground and still no signs of deterioration.

 

As far as deer fence, my dogs do a pretty good job at keeping the critters away.

[dripley]

You can submerge wood in water and it not decay. The water has to be low in O 2 and  not hospitable for wood eating organisms. That is why they find some ancient shipwrecks in tact and other ones not. On the other hand air by itself will not rot the wood. Hang a board undercover so it does not get rained on and it will last for ever. If the wood goes thru wet and dry cycles  and the temperature is good for wood eating organisms it will rot much quicker. This also depends on the species of wood.

 It is more of a combination of the 2 plus, a hospitable climate for wood eating organisms that does the damage. Holding moisture in the wood will rot it quick. 

 

@JAG1 I had to go back a reread. I thought you had said you treated yours. Thats darn good life out of untreated wood. I would agree on the concrete and the ease of removal.

[hex0rz]

So tell me what you think:

 

http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/treated-fence-posts-zmaz74sozraw

 

http://charredwood.com

 

I'll char the whole post and brush on oil. They say they use cedar and Doug fir for their substrate. Claiming they see 80 to 100 years of durability. I figure a good coating of oil in top of that, i should have something to shake a stick at. I don't know why some people cut the oil with diesel, though. Is it a penetrant?

 

Where i live, our soil is pretty dry. Although i hit water at about 75 feet down for my well. We have pretty rocky soil. The pine thrives in it, and the other species not so much. Fir will take a good amount of time before it starts taking off. You end up getting a fat base tree until it hits water then it start growing as it should. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by hex0rz

[TFaoro]

At my parents place we have a couple of round wood posts that get all of the old oil filters placed on. That fence has been up since before I was born (23 years) and shows no indication of rot. Oils are good for keeping the moisture out of the wood, but even if you choose not to I think it would still live a fairly long life if you use the gravel around the wood. Like the others have said, moisture can be the enemy. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Lot of the old timers up here take their post and soak the ends in waste engine oil. Like most ranchers will cut down small diameter green trees, peel the bark off, then soak the post ends in waste engine oil for several weeks. Once the wood is darked well then they will use the post. 

[dripley]

I have done a little with waste motor oil but never stayed around long enough to see how it lasted. I did hear the works good but have no real experience with it.

 

I was just out side talking to my daughter and was leaning against a clothes line pole in the back yard. It dawned on me that I put those poles in the ground near 25 years ago when we bought the house. They are treated pine 4 X 4's. The chemicals they used back then are probably a lot stronger than they are today. i leaned on them pretty hard and they did not give. They are not in cement either. The termites have not touched them either and do have them around here.

You got the post and I'm sure you could scrape up the oile. I would give it a try. I dont know a thing about charring the wood.

[hex0rz]

Eh, alright, so it settles it! Burn the log, at least the ground contact portion, slather on the oil and plant it into the ground with gravel.

 

I've got about 5 gallons of WMO right now. I could easily scrape up more if needed, but still trying to understand the idea behind cutting it with diesel...

[dripley]

I guess I missed that guy cutting it with diesel but saw it in your post. Sounds like that guy soaks the whole post and then let dry for a while. I never heard of the charred wood before this.

[gassernomore]

We use these in the vineyards http://ovs.com/product/wilson-pro-pole-line-end-posts . They last forever! I pulled out part of my vineyard, the posts were over 15 years old and still look great. No rot.