Nv4500 oil

[Mopar1973Man]

31 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

You're not going to find the words rated GL-4 anywhere because it simply isn't rated for it. That's a fact and it's time to stop ignoring facts to make your opinions...

 

Funny I don't find it on ANY product... engine oil, axle gear lube... Only Meet or Exceeds...

 

Here is some other products... Nowhere does it list RATED... I've looked through my entire shop and not found a single product with the terms "RATED" in the API specs. Everything I've got show Meets and Exceeds API specification...

 

 

[notlimah]

I think that this thread will at least make everyone aware of both sides of this 'argument' and people should be able to decide what they want to put into their trucks knowing both extremes.

[AH64ID]

If the information from Mobil isn't good enough for you then there isn't anything left.... 

[stevens cummins]

Out sidebof the dealer is there a gl-4 rated oil is the amsoil gl-4 rated

[AH64ID]

Just now, stevens cummins said:

Out sidebof the dealer is there a gl-4 rated oil is the amsoil gl-4 rated

 

Yes. The Amsoil MTG is a GL-4 fluid. 

[notlimah]

These should be links to the two oils being talked about

 

Mobil

https://www.mobil.com/english-us/commercial-vehicle-lube/pds/naxxmobil-delvac-synthetic-transmission-fluid-50

 

Without taking sides, since I have no dog in this fight being I'm an auto, the Mobil data sheet seems a bit misleading as it states in one paragraph that "Mobil Delvac 1 Transmission Fluid 50 meets or exceeds the requirements of the API service MT-1 classification and is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in transmissions and gear cases where API Service GL-1 through GL-4 (non-EP) gear protection is required."

 

It's sneaky how they list it as meeting and exceeding API for MT-1 then say THEY recommend it in transmissions that call for API GL-1-4, not that it meets or exceeds API requirements.

 

Then further down in the applications tab, it makes no mention of anything GL-4, nor does it in the Specifications and Approvals tab. Just seems weird to me.

 

Amsoil

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2077.pdf

 

Amsoil's data sheet is a lot more easy to understand IMO and clearly states that it's for applications recommending the use of API GL-4 oil. It even uses the NV-4500 as an example of a transmission to use, although it's stating to not use extended drain interval with a trans calling for synthetic oil.

 

If the debate is whether or not certain oil manufacturers specifically state RATED FOR GL-X then I plead the 5th as I haven't seen that actual phrasing anywhere I've looked.

 

Again, I'm not taking sides either way as I feel oil selection (or lube in general for vehicles) is one of the most biased topics when it comes to vehicles, so everyone just use what you want. The information is out there and not hard to find

Edited July 20, 2017 by notlimah

[AH64ID]

That Mobil Delvac is slightly different than the standard Delvac used. Remove the 1 from the part name and it's the proper fluid. They are two different fluids with very similar names. 

[notlimah]

Got it. I updated the link with the right fluid.

 

I'm still a little confused as to what the overall argument is lol.

[AH64ID]

9 minutes ago, notlimah said:

I'm still a little confused as to what the overall argument is lol.

 

 

Lol... semantics at this point. We all agree that it's probably a good fluid choice for the NV4500, and most of us agree that it's technically not the specified fluid for the NV4500. 

 

The Mobil Delvac Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50 is a MT-1 rated fluid that is "recommended" in GL-4 applications. Per Mobil( Product Data Sheets and a phone call to them) it does not carry the GL-4 rating, only MT-1. It has the properties that it could potentially be a GL-4 fluid, but it's not. 

 

Michael keeps telling people it carries the GL-4 rating. It's false information and despite all the data and facts from Mobil he refuses to accept it. It's been over a year. This is where words mean things. Say what it is, and don't make it something it isn't. 

 

The 5 gallon jug that Michael has says that it meets or exceeds GL-4, but it still doesn't carry the GL-4 rating. This was the point of my phone call to Mobil today. The Mobil engineer pointed out that it doesn't state that it carries the rating, only that Mobil feels it meets or exceeds the requirements.. but he also said he was unsure that it would get the GL-4 designation if they applied to API for it. 

[notlimah]

So where does it specify that the Amsoil carries the GL-4 rating? Does it flat out say 'rated for GL-4' or does just the fact that it says it is to be used for "API GL-4 applications" constitute as 'rated?' Is part of the issue that the phrase 'rated for...' isn't used?

[AH64ID]

So I've made some more phone calls and gotten some more information, which changes a few things but not the overall standings of the lubes in discussion. 

 

From what I gather the term "rating" is a bit ambiguous.  API sets standards for each fluid. Current service designations are GL-4, GL-5, and MT-1. Each fluid has different applications and requirements to meet the fluid specifications. 

 

If a fluid has the requirements the manufacturer can claim to meet those service designations. 

 

Here is where it gets gray, or confusing/misleading. We are all aware of what the PDS for the Mobil Delvac states, as well as what Michael's bucket states. They are different in terms of GL-4 applicability. The PDS only has the fluid meeting or exceeding MT-1 and not GL-4. That is why I called Mobil earlier. I had an additional question so I called Mobil back and the 2nd engineer was rather confused as to why the jug has GL-4 on it so he transferred me to a 3rd engineer. He was also surprised that GL-4 was on the jug and went on to talk about the differences in MT-1 and GL-4 and how the EP properties of the MT-1 aren't necessarily good for synchros. Bottom line is that it's a MT-1 fluid primarily and will work in GL-4 but the PDS and data the engineers have doesn't list it as meeting or exceeding GL-4, even thou the jug does. The last engineer didn't find testing results or meet/exceed data for the fluid and GL-4. Rather confusing!

 

Here is what API states about MT-1 and GL-4 differences. 

 

"API GL-4 oils may be used in selected manual transmission and transaxle applications where API MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable."

 

"API MT-1 does not address the performance requirements of synchronized transmissions and transaxles in passenger cars and heavy-duty applications." 

 

I did find some references to where MT-1 and GL-1 were on the same jug and that's because MT-1 is the upgraded fluid spec that helped make GL-1 obsolete and no longer in use. 

 

Amsoil MTG specifically lists GL-4 and Chrysler MS-9020 as exceeded specifications. 

 

I did notice that the term "rated" isn't in any of the documentation; however, it's the term all of the engineers I spoke with today used. None of them would classify the Mobil Delvac as "rated" GL-4, Amsoil did stated "rated" for GL-4. This contributed to the "rated" confusion. 

 

So here is where I am at.... Michael is correct in his feelings towards it being a GL-4 based on the jug; however, there is far more information from Mobil that it does not meet or exceed the GL-4 service designation. That leaves it as a MT-1 fluid that can be used as a GL-4, but it's still just a MT-1 fluid.  

 

SWEPCO has a similar SAE 50 fluid and its PDS states "SWEPCO 711 meets or exceeds the requirements of the API, MT-1 EP gear oil classification and can be used in transmissions and gear cases requiring API Service GL-1 through GL-4". That's a much easier reading statement than Mobil's. It can be used but doesn't meet or exceed those requirements. 

 

Clear as mud?! 

 

 

 

 

 

[notlimah]

Hmm interesting stuff John.

 

To me that last verbage the SWEPCO uses is basically the same verbiage as Mobil's but does read a little more clearly. Either way they're stating they meet the criteria for the API as a MT-1 gear oil ONLY, but in certain applications can be substituted in place where GL-1 through 4 would typically be used.

 

I think I got it! ha!

[AH64ID]

2 minutes ago, notlimah said:

Hmm interesting stuff John.

 

To me that last verbage the SWEPCO uses is basically the same verbiage as Mobil's but does read a little more clearly. Either way they're stating they meet the criteria for the API as a MT-1 gear oil ONLY, but in certain applications can be substituted in place where GL-1 through 4 would typically be used.

 

I think I got it! ha!

 

Bingo!

[stevens cummins]

Wow too much info on oil lol im going to amsoil i dont disagree with. Moparman but im need long life when moparman reaches 200k on the oil maby i can start considering the mobile, im a proof is in the pudding type persin

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm back... I've done my own phone calls on the subject to Mobil... Truth, Mobil states product 103158 Mobil Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50 has API rating GL-4. They cannot mark a container with a specification that it does not meet because of legal issues and/or warranty issues.  After discussing this matter with the tech I will have an email by later this evening stating that the product 103158 that I'm currently using is indeed carrying the API standard of GL-4. Yes, it's also MT-1 but meets both GL-4 and MT-1 API standards.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[AH64ID]

19 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I'm back... I've done my own phone calls on the subject to Mobil... Truth, Mobil states product 103158 Mobil Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50 has API rating GL-4. They cannot mark a container with a specification that it does not meet because of legal issues and/or warranty issues.  After discussing this matter with the tech I will have an email by later this evening stating that the product 103158 that I'm currently using is indeed carrying the API standard of GL-4. Yes, it's also MT-1 but meets both GL-4 and MT-1 API standards.

 

I look forward to seeing the email. 

 

Odd that we are getting different information from the Mobil engineering department. The 3 engineers I spoke to said it wasn't GL-4 based on their data. 

[Dieselfuture]

Because this world is screwed up and most don't care unless forced too.

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

I look forward to seeing the email. 

 

Odd that we are getting different information from the Mobil engineering department. The 3 engineers I spoke to said it wasn't GL-4 based on their data. 

 

That because I provided product number and other information off my bucket. Like I learned today no manufacturer can place a API rating on a container unless it actually does meet the API rating. So like they explained to me what I see on the bucket label with the MT-1 and GL-4 it does MEET the API standard. May not exceed the standard but does have to meet the requirement for the GL-4 or any API rating to be placed on the label. So this is not a misprint in my photo Mobil does meet the GL-4 API standard.

 

https://mopar1973man.com/storage/attachments/monthly_2017_07/DSCF4231.JPG.01d0fc29c90050aeb4ea931dd75678a4.JPG

 

 

[AH64ID]

While I didn't give them the product number we were talking about the same product. They only have 1 product with that name. 

 

It's rather odd the level of confusion at Mobil. 

 

Before any of them looked at their engineering sheet they said the same thing about a label,but then looked at the data and said that it wasn't a GL-4 and they weren't sure why it said GL-4 on the jug. It's rather odd, and not very confidence building. 

 

Really hoping it's a good long term fluid for you. 

[Mopar1973Man]

13 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Before any of them looked at their engineering sheet they said the same thing about a label,but then looked at the data and said that it wasn't a GL-4 and they weren't sure why it said GL-4 on the jug. It's rather odd, and not very confidence building. 

 

When I first started this a year ago the page was different and did state it was a GL-1 to GL-4 fluid. Then over the months that past that page is no longer in existance the data page is gone now. So I know the site page and data has been changed that why I'm willing to battle this being I remember seeing that Mobil was, in fact, a GL-4 product when I purchased it during the transmission rebuild. Being my warranty is up back in February I've not seen any signs of any transmission problems. So between when I purchased the oil and now the page data and URL have changed. Why? I got no idea...

 

13 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Really hoping it's a good long term fluid for you. 

 

So far I'm very pleased. There is zero color change in the last check of the fluid. I will admit the amount over filled I'm running is pushing some fluid out the vent very minor amount. Still got to get the truck tilted quite a ways to keep from pouring out the fill hole. Every time I've checked the fluid color it still looks bucket fresh yet no color difference. I'm just under 50k miles. Still laying down 250 to 270 miles every other day and still handshaking that stick with no problems.

 

Oh I've found several other folks that have been using same fluid in there NV4500, NV5600 and G56 transmissions. I've not hear of any issues as of yet. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Mopar1973Man