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Ryan Daugherty

1999 Cummins 2nd Gen Electrical short

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Hey guys,

  I always start hear first when I'm researching something on my 99 Cummins. This is my first post, forgive me if I am not posting in right area.

My problem is my batteries die after about 3 days of sitting. Notice my seatbelt light is now on, my radio wont go off with the key, my alarm will not peep when I hit the lock button on the key chain and sometime my wipers and windows stay on when key is off? Please help thanks in advance Ryan

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Test the ignition switch with a volt meter or test light and see if there is voltage at wires that that should have none with key out of ignition.  You'll need a wire diagram to help with this test.

Edited by IBMobile

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I've played around with some testing a few days ago. I did not test all the fuses but did find the seat belt fuse was drawing power? There was another fuse drawing a lot less power but I forgot which one that was. I'll try to check all fuses in a bit.

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Your seat belt will continue to draw power when the door is open and for about 10 minutes after the door is closed. To test if it is the seat belt is causing a problem roll down the window, close the doors and walk away from the truck for 10 minutes. When you come back reach in the window without opening the door and try pulling the seat belt, if it doesn't come out its good and the draw for the seat belt will be gone. It is a small draw but I could see that after 3 days it could draw the battery down. I would say pull the fuse and look for any other draw that is there.  

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2 hours ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

Hey guys,

  I always start hear first when I'm researching something on my 99 Cummins. This is my first post, forgive me if I am not posting in right area.

My problem is my batteries die after about 3 days of sitting. Notice my seatbelt light is now on, my radio wont go off with the key, my alarm will not peep when I hit the lock button on the key chain and sometime my wipers and windows stay on when key is off? Please help thanks in advance Ryan

How about that.

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Your the man dripley thanks! So I most have left my tester at work I cant find it. I will do more test as soon as I get my tester. I did on the other hand do the 10 min seatbelt lock check and without opening doors I found the seat belt was free not locked. Now exactly a year ago I did this pink wire splice thing i cant quite remember exactly what it was, but i remember they had me splice 2 wires togather to get constant power to the seat belt so they would stop locking up when driving. Thanks for all the quick reply's

 

 

 

 

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ALRIGHT SO HERES WHAT I FOUND 

THESE SYSTEMS ARE DRAWING POWER,

 

1. Pwr lock fuse #13, 10amp, 11.6v draw
2. Seat belt fuse #16, 10amp, 11.4v draw
3. Radio fuse #8, 10amp, 3.2v draw
4. Wiper fuse #6, 25amp, 11.2v draw
5. Cluster B not cluster A fuse #14, 10amp, 10.4v draw

Tested all other fuses in cab no draw on any. I did not test the fuses with the little safety clips on them or the fuses under the hood.

If any ideas please let me know I'm willing and  ready to chase this down until we nip it in the rear. Thanks for all the help so far. Me78569 mentioned the ignition switch being bad does anybody know how to test this?

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Hope you all are a little fatter and a little happier after the holidays! I some how looked over IBMobile's post didn't even see it, not sure how i missed it but i did. Alright I'm going to attempt to test the ignition switch this weekend. Have a few questions do I need to take off the steering wheel cover to access the wires i need to test? I'm a bit confused on what wires I'm testing where are they located? Shouldn't all the wires going to the ignition have no power with the key off? Also I noticed the the wiring diagram Mopar1973man hooked up (Thank you my man) has a "clutch pedal position switch" which means its for a manual truck, mines an auto is it the same? thanks

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10 hours ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

do I need to take off the steering wheel cover to access the wires i need to test?

YES

 

10 hours ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

what wires I'm testing where are they located?

Plug at the ignition switch

Battery voltage at: RED, PINK and PINK/BLACK wires.   All other wires at switch  should have no voltage.

 

Another way to test the system for this type of fault is with an amp draw test.     If you don't know how to do an amp draw test YOUTUBE has several videos on how to do this.

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Sorry I took so long to get to it, but here it is. I would not be able to figure this out with out you guys thank you very much for all the past and present help. These tested wires are under the plastic cover on the steering column. If you have any suggestions on what the heck is draining my battery please chime in!

-Thicker 6 wire plug
1. Red 12v
2. Black w/white stripe 11v
3. Black w/orange stripe 0v
4. Pink w/black stripe 12v
5. Blue 0v
6. Yellow 0v

-Smaller 4 wire plug
1. Tan maybe light pink 0v
2. Light blue 10.71v
3. Pink 11.98v
4. Yellow w/red stripe 0v

I'm trying to load some pictures on here for you but not having any luck?

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Was this test done with the key in the on position or off position?  If it was done in the off position the light blue (LTBLU) and black with white stripe (BLK/WHT) should not have any power (12V) to them.

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:20 PM, Ryan Daugherty said:

1. Pwr lock fuse #13, 10amp, 11.6v draw
2. Seat belt fuse #16, 10amp, 11.4v draw
3. Radio fuse #8, 10amp, 3.2v draw
4. Wiper fuse #6, 25amp, 11.2v draw
5. Cluster B not cluster A fuse #14, 10amp, 10.4v draw

 

Good job selecting the circuits to test.  You were very detail oriented in performing the above tests; however, the test results have no value.  You need to know how much current each circuit is drawing. 

 

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:24 AM, IBMobile said:

Another way to test the system for this type of fault is with an amp draw test.

 

This is the test that you want to perform.  Many of the circuits that you tested have parasitic draws which are normal due to some electronic components needing to have power to them at all times for memory.  These circuits should stabilize and go into sleep mode a few minutes after the truck is shut down.  The maximum current at that point for all combined circuits  should be very low - 35 milliamps (.035 amps) for my truck according to FSM.  Most likely you will have something drawing at least 500 milliamps or more in one of the circuits.

 

You will need a test light and multi-meter.  Your multi-meter should have a 10 amp setting for doing a current draw test.  You will want to disable anything on your truck that could draw excessive or unwanted amperage - for example be sure to disable the driver's door switch so you won't activate the interior light circuit when you open the door. 

 

*  Remove all the fuses that you did in your first test. 

*  Disconnect ground cables from both batteries.

*  Temporarily secure one end of the test light to the negative battery post and the other end to the ground cable.  You can use either battery location. The test light should not illuminate or if it does, it should be very dim.  If it is bright, keep pulling fuses or eliminate the source of the electrical load until the light goes out or gets very dim.

*  Set your multi-meter to the proper setting and connect the multi-meter in the same manner as test light, but with the positive lead on the negative battery cable.  Remove one end of test light to force any current to flow through the multi-meter.  Observe the multi-meter display.  It should read zero or very near zero milliamps.  

*  Reconnect test light and disconnect the multi-meter.  Insert one of the removed fuses.  Observe that the test light remains unlit or very dim.  Repeat above test with multi-meter. 

 

Continue testing until all remaining fuses are installed.  Record the findings in milliamps of each individual test and add them all up.  The total should be less than 35 milliamps.  In reality if the total is less than 50 milliamps there should not be a problem.  50 milliamps is only 1/20th of an amp.

 

Be sure the test light is always connected and the multi-meter is disconnected as described when you install a fuse.  This will avoid a surge of current (such as charging a capacitor) to pass through the multi-meter.  You will have to be careful with the multi-meter during testing as it is very easy to blow the internal 10 amp fuse.

 

I wish you luck,

 

- John

 

 

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Thanks IBMobile for your help it's probably the ignition like you said. If theres power to those wires that are not supposed to have any, then it would make sense to me that it's the ignition.


Beautiful write Tractorman thank you and I'm on it. So here is what I found and how I found. Please correct me if this will not work . I followed steps of disconnecting both battery nagatives and hooked up test light,which of course test light came on bright. Started pulling fuses, first fuse I pulled was #12 IOD fuse 10a. Found that fuse #12 made light go very dim. Pulled all other fuses and no change in light. Wich tells me it's in that pwr lck circuit, am I correct? Also fuse number 13 PWR LOCK made a humming noise when plugged in, with IOD fuse in. Noise went away when PWR LOCK fuse was pulled out and when IOD fuse was pulled out.

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First, let's make sure are talking about the same fuse locations.  My FSM is for a 2002 truck, so fuse locations could be different than yours.  Is your PDC (Power Distribution Center with fuses and relays) under the hood beside the left battery?   Is the Junction Block (another fuse distribution center) on the left side of your dash with a removable cover and only visible when the driver's door is open?  If both of these are true, then we have the same setup for the most part.  Next question, is fuse #12 (IOD) in the Junction Block?  If so, look at the wiring diagram below to count how many components are powered by this fuse - you will see plenty.  You could have something as simple as a glove box light staying on and you would never know it.

 

2 hours ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

I followed steps of disconnecting both battery nagatives and hooked up test light,which of course test light came on bright. Started pulling fuses, first fuse I pulled was #12 IOD fuse 10a. Found that fuse #12 made light go very dim.

 

Looking at the diagram below shows that there are several electronic devices or switches that operate lights downstream of Fuse 12 (IOD).  This is why your test light is bright when the fuse is in place.  The test light is a fixed load with a specific amount of resistance.  The test light by itself does not tell you how much current is flowing (amps).  This is why the multi-meter with a 10 amp current testing capability is needed and is used in conjunction with the test light.  One thing you can do is make sure that things like the dome light, vanity light, glove box light, under hood light, etc. are off.
 

2 hours ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

Also fuse number 13 PWR LOCK made a humming noise when plugged in, with IOD fuse in. Noise went away when PWR LOCK fuse was pulled out and when IOD fuse was pulled out.

 

Here again, using the test light alone can be misleading.  Because the test light bulb limits current flow, things can buzz and do strange things because the current flow is restricted by the test light bulb itself.  Example:  a relay coil can't get enough current flow so the contacts open and close rapidly causing a buzzing sound.  Also, Fuse 13 powers the Central Timer Module.

 

Hope this helps,

- John

 

1545189580_Fuse12(IOD).JPG.4e1c1753f41b692e8356441c1ee3b6f8.JPG

Edited by Tractorman
  • Like 1

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Sounds like we have the same fuse loacation John. All lights are off for sure. Thanks for the write up.

 

If the ignition switch is supposed to cut off power to black with white stripe wire and the light blue wire, doesnt that seem like it would be the ignition not turning systems off properly? I feel like that's probably what it is dont you?

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1 hour ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

If the ignition switch is supposed to cut off power to black with white stripe wire and the light blue wire, doesnt that seem like it would be the ignition not turning systems off properly? I feel like that's probably what it is dont you?

 

Not necessarily - for a couple of reasons..  For clarification, I am assuming that you are performing the ignition switch tests with the wiring harness connected to the ignition switch. 

 

A multi-meter does not load the circuit when performing  a voltage test.  Consequently, stray voltage can influence the test results.  Using a test lamp simultaneously with the multi-meter will be beneficial here. 

 

If the test lamp does not light and the voltage drops to zero, then the ignition switch is not likely the problem. 

 

If the test lamp does light and the voltage remains the same or near the same, then the ignition could be the problem, OR, another circuit could be back feeding.

 

Electrical troubleshooting can be a challenge.  You need to be diligent in following specific steps and always double check your work along the way.

 

- John

Edited by Tractorman

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"If the test lamp does not light and the voltage drops to zero, then the ignition switch is not likely the problem.

 

If the test lamp does light and the voltage remains the same or near the same, then the ignition could be the problem"

 

What wires and how exactly are we testing here?

 

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this.

 

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1 hour ago, Ryan Daugherty said:

What wires and how exactly are we testing here?

 

I have made assumptions on what you are testing, what tool you are testing with, how you are connecting with the testing tool, and the state of the connection with the ignition switch.  I have made these assumptions (correctly or incorrectly) because you did not state the details.  Here are my assumptions about your test:

 

*  You are using a multi-meter displaying voltage.

*  You are testing the output of the ignition switch, specifically the black wire with the white tracer and the light blue wire shown in the wiring diagram provided by Mopar1973Man.

*  You are performing your test with the wiring harness connected to the ignition switch (normal condition).

*  The ignition switch is in the off position.

*  Your multi-meter black test lead is connected to a known good ground

*  You are probing the BLK/WHT wire with the red test lead and you are  recording 11 volts.

*  You are probing the LGTBLU wire with the red test lead and you are recording 10.7 volts.

 

If this is how you are doing your ignition switch test, then your recordings may not be conclusive because the multi-meter does not place a load on the circuit - you could be reading stray voltage, or a back feeding voltage.

 

By simultaneously connecting a test light at the same connections as your multi-meter, you can place a small electrical load on the circuit, thus eliminating any stray voltage.

 

*  If the test lamp does not light and the voltage drops to zero, then the ignition switch is not likely the problem. 

 

*  If the test lamp does light and the voltage remains the same or near the same, then the ignition could be the problem, OR, another circuit could be back feeding.

 

- John

 

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Yes this assumption is correct on how I'm testing wires.

 

Okay tried this-

"By simultaneously connecting a test light at the same connections as your multi-meter, you can place a small electrical load on the circuit, thus eliminating any stray voltage."

 

Got These Results-

black/white wire voltage 10.84 light comes on.

lght/blue wire voltage .03 light does not come on.

 

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Another way to test if the power to the ignition switch is from the battery or stray voltage would be to remove the #10 fuse pictured blow.  By removing this fuse battery voltage is remover from the switch.  If no voltage, present then bad switch.  If voltage still present the stray voltage back feeding. 

 

DSCN0169.JPG.4dca81bc17f8ba780693350faaff064a.JPG

 

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Hooked everything back up normal, batteries hooked up.

 

Pulled 50 amp ignition run/acc out and still have power to radio and wipers.

Theres another ignition fuse in my box it's a 30amp ignition run fuse?

 

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