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Overhaul time

Jack Owen
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Blueox01

Blueox01

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

The bolt on the top is definitely out of spec, you can visually see the stretch about half way down the threaded portion. I would say OEM head bolts are good for atleast a one time reuse as long as the bolts do not exceed Cummins specs for max length. I built quite a few 6BT and ISB engines that were still in stock form reusing head bolts with zero warranty comebacks. It's all in the air and fuel mods on the engine and future plans that will determine whether head studs or OEM head bolts should be used.

 

For my personal truck I would probably go for head studs even though I never plan on the mods that would benefit from them. Of course it would all depend on the budget I had at the time of repair.

 

2 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

The bolt on the top is definitely out of spec, you can visually see the stretch about half way down the threaded portion. I would say OEM head bolts are good for atleast a one time reuse as long as the bolts do not exceed Cummins specs for max length. I built quite a few 6BT and ISB engines that were still in stock form reusing head bolts with zero warranty comebacks. It's all in the air and fuel mods on the engine and future plans that will determine whether head studs or OEM head bolts should be used.

 

For my personal truck I would probably go for head studs even though I never plan on the mods that would benefit from them. Of course it would all depend on the budget I had at the time of repair.

Well I can only go by my experience with my truck, but I would concede that the "book" says  to to replace head bolts whenever pulling the head, but I only have 857K (453K on first block, "53" block cracked tried to repair so head was of 3 times) on my engine and just this time put new Cummins head bolts (never a leak, or blown gasket), as well as the main cap bolts this rebuild, only because I felt the bolt stretch, My point was you should be able too feel it stretch when torquing if you pay attention. Not by any means a High HP engine re builder, just pay attention to details, like chasing all bolt holes, to make sure torque is true

20180303_090406_001.jpg

Edited by Blueox01
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Guest 04Mach1

Guest 04Mach1

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14 minutes ago, Blueox01 said:

 

Well I can only go by my experience with my truck, but I would concede that the "book" says  to to replace head bolts whenever pulling the head, but I only have 857K (453K on first block,) on my engine and just this time put new Cummins head bolts (never a leak, or blown gasket), as well as the main cap bolts this rebuild, only because I felt the bolt stretch, My point was you should be able too feel it stretch when torquing if you pay attention. Not by any means a High HP engine re builder, just pay attention to details, like chasing all bolt holes, to make sure torque is true

20180303_090406_001.jpg

What book says to replace head bolts? The engine designer and builder says head bolts can be reused if bolt free length does not exceed maximum length. The screen shot below is per Cummins on a CM550 VP44 ISB 5.9 engine.

 

Screenshot_20180711-212929.png.720a6092ffcb9483b49a610c8f7d2fd4.pngScreenshot_20180711-212941.png.2085e51b1708412a70246881c1b8776b.pngScreenshot_20180711-215416.png.cb743d49e8a9ccd94134737c2ce3874d.png

Edited by 04Mach1
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Blueox01

Blueox01

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23 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

 

What book says to replace head bolts? The engine designer and builder says head bolts can be reused if bolt free length does not exceed maximum length. The screen shot below is per Cummins on a CM550 VP44 ISB 5.9 engine.

 

Screenshot_20180711-212929.png.720a6092ffcb9483b49a610c8f7d2fd4.pngScreenshot_20180711-212941.png.2085e51b1708412a70246881c1b8776b.pngScreenshot_20180711-215416.png.cb743d49e8a9ccd94134737c2ce3874d.png

It wasn't stretched until the final torque, I felt it stretch because it wouldn't torque properly on final torque, so the gage is great for bolts you've removed. Bolts shown are for image only. These bolt were main cap bolts.

I keep trying to upload a Video of me turning by hand crank after torqued, but I'm too stupid to figure out how to do it right. 

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Guest 04Mach1

Guest 04Mach1

Posted
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14 minutes ago, Blueox01 said:

It wasn't stretched until the final torque, I felt it stretch because it wouldn't torque properly, so the gage is great for bolts you've removed.

Yes, the bolts are designed to stretch, every fastener on the engine will stretch including main and rod cap bolts, even water pump mounting bolts. Also OEM Cummins head bolts, main caps, and rod caps are designed to be torqued to spec with clean engine oil lubrication, not anti-seize or substitute, on the threads and bottom side of the flange bolt head. 

 

This was the last ISB I built and as of 2 weeks ago had about 20,000 miles on it mostly running from Milan, NM to his home in Dallas, TX and back every week. Not one new bolt went into this build.

 

 

Edited by 04Mach1
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Blueox01

Blueox01

Posted
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9 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

Yes, the bolts are designed to stretch, every fastener on the engine will stretch including main and rod cap bolts, even water pump mounting bolts. Also OEM Cummins head bolts, main caps, and rod caps are designed to be torqued to spec with clean engine oil lubrication, not anti-seize or substitute, on the threads and bottom side of the flange bolt head. 

 

This was the last ISB I built and as of 2 weeks ago had about 20,000 miles on it mostly running from Milan, NM to his home in Dallas, TX and back every week. Not one new bolt went into this build.

 

 

I hope my engine sounds that good when I fire it up, think the pipes will thump. Stay in Grants on my way to folks for Christmas past several years in Mesa, run down through Holbrook to Payson , gonna miss this year though.

20181126_123241.jpg

Edited by Blueox01
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Guest 04Mach1

Guest 04Mach1

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Blueox01 said:

I hope my engine sounds that good when I fire it up, think the pipes will thump. Stay in Grants on my way to folks for Christmas past several years in Mesa, run down through Holbrook to Payson , gonna miss this year though.

20181126_123241.jpg

 

Here's another thing I've found in the Common Rail 5.9 a few times. I'm not sure if Cummins ever screwed up on the VP ISB. May be worth looking to make sure your rods go in the right direction.

 

 

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Blueox01

Blueox01

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5 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

 

Here's another thing I've found in the Common Rail 5.9 a few times. I'm not sure if Cummins ever screwed up on the VP ISB. May be worth looking to make sure your rods go in the right direction.

 

 

Yep, I needed new pistons and my machine guy got them on backwards, when 1st rod I put in hit block was a big clue. Like that bottom brace, not sure I have enough HP to justify but hey would be nice.

I adapted a fuller FSO 8406 behind this, after 3 NV5600 trans I figured I needed something bigger.

20180601_172132.jpg

20180215_110412.jpg

Thanks for your input!

You look like you own/work at a truck shop in Grants, at least by the pics and your knowledge of these engines.

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Dieselfuture

Dieselfuture

Posted
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2 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

May be worth looking to make sure your rods go in the right direction.

I looked at your article but still not sure what I'm looking at, must be a very minor difference that I can't spot.

2 hours ago, Blueox01 said:

I adapted a fuller FSO 8406 behind this, after 3 NV5600

How much is one of these fso8406 in good shape, and can it be used in 4x4. I'm sure anything is possible, just wondering what it would take. 

I'm hoping my nv56 lasts a long time, but if it goes and I can't find one reasonable your way would be on the list.

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Blueox01

Blueox01

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20 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I looked at your article but still not sure what I'm looking at, must be a very minor difference that I can't spot.

How much is one of these fso8406 in good shape, and can it be used in 4x4. I'm sure anything is possible, just wondering what it would take. 

I'm hoping my nv56 lasts a long time, but if it goes and I can't find one reasonable your way would be on the list.

 

20 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I looked at your article but still not sure what I'm looking at, must be a very minor difference that I can't spot.

How much is one of these fso8406 in good shape, and can it be used in 4x4. I'm sure anything is possible, just wondering what it would take. 

I'm hoping my nv56 lasts a long time, but if it goes and I can't find one reasonable your way would be on the list.

 

Not sure what minor differences you speak of?

I got most my info from an old post a guy in NM posted, I think he did get it adapted to a 4x4 since I think these trans would have been in med duty 6x6 trucks, but I'm not the one to help with conversion parts, sorry

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Guest 04Mach1

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Posted
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4 minutes ago, Blueox01 said:

 

 

Not sure what minor differences you speak of?

I got most my info from an old post a guy in NM posted, I think he did get it adapted to a 4x4 since I think these trans would have been in med duty 6x6 trucks, but I'm not the one to help with conversion parts, sorry

In the tear down picture you will notice the long side of the rod on the exhaust side of the engine. In the assembly photo you will see the long side of the rod on the intake side of the engine. This is a 07 5.9 CR engine. Per Cummins the long side of the 5.9 connecting rod should be on the intake side. Cummins put the rods in this engine opposite of what their engine manual states. I of course put it together the way their engine manual stated. However on a 6.7 the long side of the rod will be on the exhaust side of the engine according to the Cummins engine manual.

 

I probably should have done the pictures without the block stiffener installed because it would have been much easier to see.

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Dieselfuture

Dieselfuture

Posted
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6 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

I probably should have done the pictures without the block stiffener installed because it would have been much easier to see.

I see it now, I was looking at caps themselves, though they were flipped around not the entire rod like you mentioned, it takes me several times to read something to understand sometimes. 

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Blueox01

Blueox01

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56 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I see it now, I was looking at caps themselves, though they were flipped around not the entire rod like you mentioned, it takes me several times to read something to understand sometimes. 

I didn't notice it wasn't a 24v with a VP44, but a common rail, until i re-watched the video. But yea you have to make sure rods go back on with pistons orientated right. But like that block stiffener, not sure if that will bolt to my block, anyway not going to tear it apart now.

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