Air bags

[01cummins4ever]

I am in need of getting some air bags installed due to my load requirements these days, I am running close to the max payload on my fifth wheel pin weight and have noticed handling and stability issues that I didn’t have before on my older configuration.

 

anyway I have been looking and not to break the bank going to keep it simple for now and maybe get the on board air and controller later if I feel the need. For now I carry air compressor in my fiver so I do have access to air if out in the boonies. I have looked at these linked below, anybody have any experience with these or some similar.

 

They both claim that they don’t work with fifth wheel configurations but I called them about that and they said they will work with some extra drilling?  
 

https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6537
 

 

 

https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=32082

[Dieselfuture]

 This is my older post

 

[01cummins4ever]

Thanks for the link DF, it looks like yours mount on that perch on block ? The ones I’m looking at looks to mount directly on axle, maybe I’m missing something  

[Royal Squire]

There is a post on here somewhere that recommends Firestone F2220 IIRC. 

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, 01cummins4ever said:

Thanks for the link DF, it looks like yours mount on that perch on block ?

I made it fit as I didn't want it on my leaf springs because I have a gooseneck plate on the frame where they want you to mount it. There is a better way of doing but needs some fabbing. There is a guy on YouTube something welding, he builds custom beds for trucks, he had an idea on how to that I liked.

 

1 hour ago, Royal Squire said:

There is a post on here somewhere that recommends Firestone F2220 IIRC. 

Yes I believe they finally made a kit that fits in same place where I mounted mine, good call, forgot about that one.

 

I like it where I got it directly under the frame and over the axle, nothing is in the way for the most part. 

[Towrigdually]

1 hour ago, Royal Squire said:

There is a post on here somewhere that recommends Firestone F2220 IIRC. 

yes! I ordered the bags for a C&C 3500 because I didn’t have the ability to make mounts. 
 

https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Suspension/Dodge/Ram+Pickup/2001/F2220.html?VehicleID=20011009447

 

just did a 8k trip with them pulling the gooseneck no problems at 55psi truck rode level

Edited January 22, 2020 by Towrigdually

[01cummins4ever]

21 hours ago, Towrigdually said:

yes! I ordered the bags for a C&C 3500 because I didn’t have the ability to make mounts. 
 

https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Suspension/Dodge/Ram+Pickup/2001/F2220.html?VehicleID=20011009447

 

just did a 8k trip with them pulling the gooseneck no problems at 55psi truck rode level

These look like a direct bolt on for our 2nd gen.

Looking at the install instructions for these it looks like they sit directly on rear axle and connect to inside of frame, that’s kind of what I’m looking for.  @Towrigdually how did your install go, any issues?

[AH64ID]

I've used Firestone bags on several different vehicles and I have always been happy with them. Their kits are well thought out and easy to install. 

 

I do highly recommend plumbing them independently, and be sure to let the truck suspension sag at least 1.5" and then hold it in place with air. 

[Dieselfuture]

51 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

be sure to let the truck suspension sag at least 1.5" and then hold it in place with air. 

Like put weight in the back to get it to go down 1.5" from normal ride? Trying to picture all this

[AH64ID]

3 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Like put weight in the back to get it to go down 1.5" from normal ride? Trying to picture all this

 

When you're loaded up you don't want all that weight on the airbags, so letting the suspension sag under some of the payload means the weight is distributed between the springs and airbags. This will yield the best ride and handling. 

 

 

[01cummins4ever]

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

 

 

I do highly recommend plumbing them independently, 

I would be interested in your thought on that 

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

 

When you're loaded up you don't want all that weight on the airbags, so letting the suspension sag under some of the payload means the weight is distributed between the springs and airbags. This will yield the best ride and handling. 

 

 

Make sense, I think when I did mine I had regular junk in the bed and when I got it sitting on the bottom out perch I had to stretch it a bit like 3/4 of an inch, so I think it's close to what you're saying.  Also I wanted to split the difference a bit loaded vs wheels hanging away from the frame, I used a jack on the receiver hitch and lifted the truck. This way they don't get ripped off when rear end articulates. Not sure how much adjustments can be made on a prefabbed kit though. That's why I like the idea of having tops mounted and make a c channel for the bottom that just sits on the axle l, so if you're off road then worse case they separate from axle and not get ripped. 

 

22 minutes ago, 01cummins4ever said:

I would be interested in your thought on that 

If I may, you want it separate and not tied together because If it articulates too far then all air will travel to the other bag and help you flip over.

[Towrigdually]

2 hours ago, 01cummins4ever said:

These look like a direct bolt on for our 2nd gen.

Looking at the install instructions for these it looks like they sit directly on rear axle and connect to inside of frame, that’s kind of what I’m looking for.  @Towrigdually how did your install go, any issues?

It basically was a direct bolt up. I did mine on the ground just to have the truck weight on it, could be done on a hoist just jack up the rear axle some. Done a few that way. 
 

I had to get a longer 1/4-20 bolt to mount the brake line bracket on the frame cause the mount is over the hole. 

also for the mounts, I had to elongate the one of the top airbag mounting bolt holes in order to clear the lip on the frame, you could easily just cut or grind that part of the frame but I didn’t.

 

took about 2 hrs from start to once I just the just of how the kit went together. 
 

as for plumbing them independently, that’s up to you. I choose to so I could adjust the bags separately depending on the load in the bed or the trailer if it’s uneven. But I’ve also seen it argued that having them together is better in case of a air leak they leak or blow out together so you not riding unevenly down the road. 

[AH64ID]

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

 That's why I like the idea of having tops mounted and make a c channel for the bottom that just sits on the axle l, so if you're off road then worse case they separate from axle and not get ripped. 

 

I wonder how much bag/c-channel bouncing you would get during everyday driving. I'd think there be enough minor movement to damage the axle. 

 

These HD trucks don't have enough articulation to worry about anyhow. 

 

I had a set of Firestone bags on my Tacoma TRD OffRoad. I was worried about articulation on that rig so I contacted Firestone. They told me the bags were designed to work at any articulation the stock suspension would allow. So within the confines of stock articulation I don't think there is anything to worry about, but with an aftermarket suspension long travel bags might be necessary. 

 

35 minutes ago, 01cummins4ever said:

I would be interested in your thought on that 

 

Quote

If I may, you want it separate and not tied together because If it articulates too far then all air will travel to the other bag and help you flip over.

 

 

It does deal with air transfer from side to side, but I wasn't thinking flipping over 

 

When they are plumbed together and you go into a corner any suspension roll transfers air from one bag into the other, this doesn't do anything to help with sway. Then you come out of the corner and your rear spring rates are different until the air transfers back. With them plumbed independently you get some sway control out of it since the suspension on the outside of the corner will go up the volume of the bag increases and the bags pressure decreases, while on the inside the volume of the bag decreases and the pressure increases. Both of those pressure changes result in forces working to counteract the body roll. They also return to normal as soon as the vehicle is back to side to side level. Side to side independent leveling is the other reason to plumb them independently. 

 

Almost everyone I know that is unhappy with airbags does one of two things, they either run them up to 100 psi for ANY load or they have them plumbed together. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by AH64ID

[Dieselfuture]

3 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

I wonder how much bag/c-channel bouncing you would get during everyday driving. I'd think there be enough minor movement to damage the axle. 

Good point, that's probably why I just did what I did and split the difference, I remember thinking about all these scenarios back when I put mine on.

 

6 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

It does deal with air transfer from side to side, but I wasn't thinking flipping over 

I guess I was thinking extreme towing in off road situation, I'm weird like that.

[015point9]

I'm almost a thousand pounds tongue weight and when my airbags were tied together (single air line) and go around a corner, air bleeds one side to the other.  No big deal but noticable.  Now with airlines on each bag that terminates under my sidestep.  No more bags getting unequal pressure.  I also am able to use the plug in the cigarette lighter air compressor.  I get the level out of the trailer put it on the bed rail and I just fill up the bags and watch the bubble level and stop filling when I get same "attidude" as stock.  Not sure if I'm doing it right or if there's a better way but it works for me.  I used air brake tubing and used a sharp knife (first "wack" at installing)  and had two very small leaks then redid it with a vinyl tube cutter when cutting the tubing and no more leaks.  

[AH64ID]

By setting it back to the stock attitude you're putting all your payload on the airbags. I bet if you let the rear end sag about 1-1.5" below empty you'll get a better ride and batter handling while towing. 

[01cummins4ever]

Is their a difference in the 2500 frame and axle mounts and the 3500, reason is I was getting ready to order these

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 7:05 PM, Towrigdually said:

 

https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Suspension/Dodge/Ram+Pickup/2001/F2220.html?VehicleID=20011009447

but the manufacture  says they will work on the 3500 not the 2500 ?  maybe something to do with the C & C vs. the standard truck ?

[Haggar]

Go to Firestone's site.  

For some reason they are listing a different part number for the cab/chassis.   I agree there should not be  a huge if any difference....

 

But it is not just Etrailer labeling,  Firestone made a distinction.  2071 is what you need I think.

 

Hag

 

 

[Towrigdually]

As far as I know the frames shouldn’t be different, I can go out after work tonight and take pictures of my frame and measurements if ya want to double check everything.