New Injectors now Surging

[Unreal Summit]

Got it! 

[beans20]

Ok well I took it for a drive and it still does it. It’s more prominent with the A/C on. With it off it’s not nearly as bad. This time it also shut the truck off. So I don’t know if it should be this bad. A little I expect, but I don’t know fully either. Also fighting a hard start now that wasn’t there before I did injectors. The FASS is losing prime it seems and when it doesn’t have any pressure. Once the truck is running the FASS is kicking up 15 psi at the VP.

Edited August 3, 2020 by beans20

[Mopar1973Man]

Did you tighten the crossover tube first? If you did it was done correctly. If you did the injector hold down first you did it wrong and pinned the injector and not allow the crossover to center up the injector.

[Threadzy]

I replaced my injection pump back in May. After putting it in when the exhaust break would disengage around 25 mph the engine would idle down almost to the point of dying then jump up like hitting the throttle real quick. Over time it got worse. Would die going into gear especially when the air was on. Occasionally it would die going into a turn letting off the throttle.  It typically only got real bad when the outside air temperature was above 85°. The pump is tested in a  70° room  is what the rebuilder said. Last Saturday I swapped out the pump through warranty. So far so good no more issues.  My injectors are less than six months old. The old pump went out a month or two after putting the injectors in. 

[beans20]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Did you tighten the crossover tube first? If you did it was done correctly. If you did the injector hold down first you did it wrong and pinned the injector and not allow the crossover to center up the injector.

Nope I put the injectors in crossover tubes in, tightened down the injector hold downs then put the lines on. So would it be worth going back through loosening it up and tightening down lines first, then injector hold downs? Or just replace crossover tubes, then do lines and hold downs?

1 hour ago, Threadzy said:

I replaced my injection pump back in May. After putting it in when the exhaust break would disengage around 25 mph the engine would idle down almost to the point of dying then jump up like hitting the throttle real quick. Over time it got worse. Would die going into gear especially when the air was on. Occasionally it would die going into a turn letting off the throttle.  It typically only got real bad when the outside air temperature was above 85°. The pump is tested in a  70° room  is what the rebuilder said. Last Saturday I swapped out the pump through warranty. So far so good no more issues.  My injectors are less than six months old. The old pump went out a month or two after putting the injectors in. 

Mine happened immediately following injector swap. 

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, beans20 said:

Nope I put the injectors in crossover tubes in, tightened down the injector hold downs then put the lines on.

 

Pull them up again and tight the crossover tubes first. This allows the crossover tube to self center in the injector before you tighten the hold down. So now you've created a high pressure leak inside the return rail of the head. Just got to loosen everything up and upll and reseat the injectors and tight the crossovers first. Then do all the injector hold downs last. 
 

[TheGreatWhite]

42 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Pull them up again and tight the crossover tubes first. This allows the crossover tube to self center in the injector before you tighten the hold down. So now you've created a high pressure leak inside the return rail of the head. Just got to loosen everything up and upll and reseat the injectors and tight the crossovers first. Then do all the injector hold downs last. 
 

Tighten the crossovers? Am I missing something? Mine just pop in...?

[dripley]

He means the fuel lines. They tighten against the cross over tubes and compresion seals everything tight.

[Mopar1973Man]

Dripley is right on.

 

Yes you want to tight the lines FIRST. Crossover tubes will be pushed into the injectors and centered up and sealed before you lock the injector in place. 

[beans20]

21 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Dripley is right on.

 

Yes you want to tight the lines FIRST. Crossover tubes will be pushed into the injectors and centered up and sealed before you lock the injector in place. 

I will give this a shot tomorrow and report back. 

[TheGreatWhite]

17 minutes ago, beans20 said:

I will give this a shot tomorrow and report back. 

I might try and do that too, might solve my fuel economy issue....

[beans20]

Ok so I took everything off and torque lines and tubes, then injectors. It still does it, but no even close to as bad as before. I’ll need to drive maybe a little farther to be sure. But with the A/C on as well still not as bad, it’s about the same with it on or off. I’ll keep a check on it and if it gets worse like before I’ll start talking with Chris at DFI to see about get the injectors popped. 
 

Edit: Still fighting a hard start and drain back issue. Let the truck cool off for an hour, went out side to see if the pump

would come on. But no dice. Currently have new connector tubes on the way and another round of o-rings. This time apart I may put my stock injectors back in just to see what happens. If it continues to do it, I’ll be replacing the VP.

 

Edit 2: I guess I should mention this all only happens when the truck is fully warmed up to normal operating temp. 190° ish. Is that signs of the VP44 taking a crap? I can only assume this is the original VP.

Edited August 5, 2020 by beans20

[beans20]

On 8/3/2020 at 9:50 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Dripley is right on.

 

Yes you want to tight the lines FIRST. Crossover tubes will be pushed into the injectors and centered up and sealed before you lock the injector in place. 

Edit 3: Old crossover tubes are in, and old injectors in. Doesn’t do it a bit. Doesn’t even hint at it. A/C on hard pull in 4th or 5th or whatever and let off the throttle and press the clutch drops down like normal. Doesn’t have the power I’d like but it doesn’t go buck wild either.

Edited August 6, 2020 by beans20

[Mopar1973Man]

Just like a found out not exactly fitting but shows how things can change. 

 

I had  job up in Anatone WA doing a injection pump on a Case C580 backhoe. The fly weight spring had failed and it would barely idle. Pulled the injection pump sent it to Lewiston, ID (Idaho Diesel Tech). They rebuilt the injection pump. Next week we went up and installed the injection pump. Got it fired up the backhoe and it was smoking bluish white warming up. Talk with the owner a bit and he said its never smoked before. We called Idaho Diesel Tech we both agree to pull the injectors. We found out that #2 injector is physically missing a hole. So the other 3 injectors are four hole injectors but number 2 is physically missing one hole. 

 

Case C580 pencil injectors...

 

No one would of uncovered this mystery until the injectoion pump was rebuilt and had good line pressures once again.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[beans20]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:50 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Just like a found out not exactly fitting but shows how things can change. 

 

I had  job up in Anatone WA doing a injection pump on a Case C580 backhoe. The fly weight spring had failed and it would barely idle. Pulled the injection pump sent it to Lewiston, ID (Idaho Diesel Tech). They rebuilt the injection pump. Next week we went up and installed the injection pump. Got it fired up the backhoe and it was smoking bluish white warming up. Talk with the owner a bit and he said its never smoked before. We called Idaho Diesel Tech we both agree to pull the injectors. We found out that #2 injector is physically missing a hole. So the other 3 injectors are four hole injectors but number 2 is physically missing one hole. 

 

Case C580 pencil injectors...

 

No one would of uncovered this mystery until the injectoion pump was rebuilt and had good line pressures once again.

Just waiting on a reply from @dieselautopower I sent them my injectors for testing so we shall see what the deal is. At this point that is all I can do. 

[beans20]

Well I got the call, and all popped at 311-316 Bar. So I don’t have a clue at this point what is going on.

[beans20]

Ok so I ordered Flux Diesel Mach 4’s and problem still persists. So now I attribute this to just timing like mentioned before. If I do my best to gear down like an auto truck, no issues truck acts fine so that’s what I’ll do. Now on to the drain back issue. I replaced the filters on my FASS pump with FASS brand filters and no more drain back. I had new Baldwin Filters on. So needless to say I’ll be sticking with FASS OE filters.