Tuning Quadzilla

[Ravewolf]

Ok, so I finally got my truck back on the road after having to get another injection pump. Hopefully nothing else major goes wrong. At this point, I've replaced every major thing that could go wrong (minus the pcm and ecm). But I digress. 

 

My latest problem is whenever I drive the truck, if I don't have the tuner set on a higher level, it bucks, sputters, and blows white smoke. 

 

I'm 95% sure it's tuning related. I'm getting great fuel pressure and flow, and my injectors have all new tips (I rebuilt and pop tested them myself at school), and seals. 

 

I'm not sure if my specs are in my profile, but here they are again:

FASS 150gph pump, 1/2 line from pump to injection pump, Hamilton cam (so I was told,) 150hp injectors, and a 66/65/.84 turbo that has no wastegate, and dumps into a 5" exhaust all the way back. No muffler or anything. 

 

Long winded, I know. But where should I start on my quadzilla settings? 

 

If this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it. 

 

Thanks again for the help! 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Let me say it is not exact science. 

 

The problem is injector pop pressure, cetane of the fuel, gear ratio and tire sizes all play a role in what the tune is going to require. Like yourself with the larger turbo you going to most likely start at 13° steeping up about  +4° to +5° and build out from there timing wise. You'll need fair amount of retard to get that turbo spooled. I found that having a flat spot in the fuel map is way nicer for daily driver leaving a span say from 5 to 10 or 15 PSI of boost just 100%. Then from that point ramp both wire tap and CANBus together for some serious power for passing. Too many like to start the wire tap at 5 PSI and always riding in the wire tap for normal driving. (Not really efficient).

 

Like myself I'm popped at 320 bar so my injectors are late and require advancement just to be back in time. I don't know what you set the pop pressure too? I'm experimenting with +5.5° between spans on the timing. Tops me out at 29.5° at 3,000 RPM. My problem is I don't use much of the 2.5k and 3K bands except for passing. My travels rarely take me to interstate now that allow me to run 82 MPH at 2,500 RPM. Not exact science, but the engine gives clues to what it likes and don't. If temperatures and/or engine load rise your going the wrong way. If temperatures and/or engine load falls you going the right direction. This includes EGT's. 

 

The biggest thing is to watch your engine load. Timing wise as you get closer to what the engine likes it will go low on engine load. Go to far advanced or retard the engine load will rise. Another clue is engine oil temp the closer to correct timing the lower the engine oil temp will typically be while cruising. 

[NIsaacs]

7 hours ago, Ravewolf said:

. 

My latest problem is whenever I drive the truck, if I don't have the tuner set on a higher level, it bucks, sputters, and blows white smoke. 

 

 

This is an indicator of slow VP timing, like really slow. Are you sure the pump key is in place, correctly, and or the right one?

[Dieselfuture]

Post your tune parameters 

[Mopar1973Man]

Bucking is over advanced timing typically. You should be starting out at about 13° at 1,500 RPM. then maybe step up about +4° between bands is a good starting point for most.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[LorenS]

Instead of starting off at 13⁰ to help spool the turbo at high engine load and low boost (taking off from a stop), why not set the base to 14 or 15⁰ and up the Low PSI Timing Reduction a degree or two? I thought that's what it is for. Am I wrong?

Edited March 7, 2021 by LorenS
Clarity

[Threadzy]

4 hours ago, LorenS said:

Instead of starting off at 13⁰ to help spool the turbo at high engine load and low boost (taking off from a stop), why not set the base to 14 or 15⁰ and up the Low PSI Timing Reduction a degree or two? I thought that's what it is for. Am I wrong?

Try starting at 13 and see if you notice anything different with take off,engine load and EGT’s.  Mine starts at 13 and just recently switched from 4 degrees from each band to 5. It pulls harder and EGT’s are down. I plan to use this as a tow tune only changing my timing reduction from 1 to 3. For spool up. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm currently running +5.5 between bands on timing and no bucking in the upper bands. Also starting at 13° in the 1500 band. This gives me just enough room in the 3000 band for 29.5°. Again no issues as of yet.

[Threadzy]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I'm currently running +5.5 between bands on timing and no bucking in the upper bands. Also starting at 13° in the 1500 band. This gives me just enough room in the 3000 band for 29.5°. Again no issues as of yet.

Did you notice  faster rpm’s? 

[Mopar1973Man]

Always been fast even at +5° between bands, just looking for better efficiency. Been testing this for about 2 weeks now. By 3rd gear I can out right smoke the rear tires then bark the tires in 4th. Funnier yet I told @Wet Vette she could not drive with this power she told me to pull over and did a Chinese fire drill and she hopped in and roasted the tires in 3rd and even got them to spin again in 4th gear. Yeah it's fast and powerful.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Marq92]

How long have you had that turbo and injector setup? I know companies will sell them like that, but you don't want your compressor inducer exceeding the turbine wheel exducer or even that close rather on a diesel application. It becomes very prone to surging. You injectors are too small too for your compressor side but not the turbine side. Either change it out for a 57 or preferably 61mm(inducer) compressor wheel and keep you current injectors or up the turbine wheel to at least a 68-71mm(exducer). 73mm exducer is the norm for a 66mm inducer but the design of that turbine is more for flow at the expense of spool up. No matter how you change your tuning to alleviate it the best you can you won't fully overcome a mismatched setup.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Marq92

[Ravewolf]

 

11 hours ago, Marq92 said:

How long have you had that turbo and injector setup? I know companies will sell them like that, but you don't want your compressor inducer exceeding the turbine wheel exducer or even that close rather on a diesel application. It becomes very prone to surging. You injectors are too small too for your compressor side but not the turbine side. Either change it out for a 57 or preferably 61mm(inducer) compressor wheel and keep you current injectors or up the turbine wheel to at least a 68-71mm(exducer). 73mm exducer is the norm for a 66mm inducer but the design of that turbine is more for flow at the expense of spool up. No matter how you change your tuning to alleviate it the best you can you won't fully overcome a mismatched setup.

The turbo came with the truck, I didn't buy it. I'm thinking of pulling it off and selling it or keeping it for another project 

On 3/6/2021 at 4:25 PM, NIsaacs said:

 

This is an indicator of slow VP timing, like really slow. Are you sure the pump key is in place, correctly, and or the right one?

Funny you mention that! So the vp44 is a used one from a guy on ebay (quickdrawbrand.com). The key that came with the pump fell out and disappeared into the void, so I used the one off my old vp44. It was worn, like it was in there awhile, but I didn't think anything of it, so I reused it. I guess I order a new one now just to cross it off the list.

On 3/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, Dieselfuture said:

Post your tune parameters 

I will as soon as i get a reading.

 

19 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Always been fast even at +5° between bands, just looking for better efficiency. Been testing this for about 2 weeks now. By 3rd gear I can out right smoke the rear tires then bark the tires in 4th. Funnier yet I told @Wet Vette she could not drive with this power she told me to pull over and did a Chinese fire drill and she hopped in and roasted the tires in 3rd and even got them to spin again in 4th gear. Yeah it's fast and powerful.

Yours is a 5 speed too, right? Ive been trying to use the tunes you put out since you have big injectors too. But I think my turbo is killing alot of my power. The truck has never ever felt right to me. Always lazy, and peaky. Runs great on the highway, but an absolute turd in town. 

[Marq92]

I just noticed your sig says 63mm turbo. If that's the case you shouldn't be getting any surging from that, but a 76/68mm turbine wheel would be much better suited. It's a good hot street turbo for 5.9's. And a good match with your 150's.

[Ravewolf]

this is what it's doing 

[Marq92]

Fuel psi seems high and fluctuates too much. From what the engines doing I'd figure it points to the vp44 being bad but the fuel psi coming from your lift pump is odd too.

[Ravewolf]

59 minutes ago, Marq92 said:

Fuel psi seems high and fluctuates too much. From what the engines doing I'd figure it points to the vp44 being bad but the fuel psi coming from your lift pump is odd too.

My fuel psi is a mechanical gauge, and I have it hooked in line with a damper. But I haven't adjusted the damper in a bit.  

Also, I checked for codes and there's none. If it was the vp44 it would throw a P0216, right? 

 

I've always wondered if the fuel pump was right though. It's a FASS titanium 150,with fresh filters. Idk how old it is because it also came with the truck. I will say it's not as loud as it used to be, because before, when I'd cycle the key, and the wts light came in, it would hum really loud, and the gauge would jump up quick. Now, not so much. I'll pull it off and see if I can find anything wrong with it. I've heard the check valve sticks sometimes in the FASS pump,and sometimes when I go to start it, it acts like it lost prime (takes a minute to start). 

 

This trucks hates me, but I'll play her games until she loves me. 

Also, update: I put the tow tune from this website on, and the truck hasn't sputtered or bucked once today. This is not to say I haven't been hard on the throttle though. Been real easy on it. 

[Marq92]

Another thing is From reading on here the early 24v's like your year have a weaker built ecm so you may want to look into beefing up the grounds from the following articles. I don't know if it could be from a bad apps(tps) either. More likely vp44 or ground though.

 

 

 

 

 

[dripley]

WT's ground mod is worth its weight in gold and very easy to do.

[Ravewolf]

Hmm. I'll check it out and see, thanks! The apps is a timbo apps off of here, so I don't think that's it. 

Would a bad battery cause all this? I tested my batteries just a few minutes ago here at work, and my passenger battery tested bad. 

[dripley]

Good clean DC power is a must on these trucks. The electronics struggle with out it. So I would say yes it could be part of your problem. Cables and connections need to good also. I replaced my cables and did the ground mod pretty close time wise and have not experienced a electrical gremlins since. I had surging and dead issues that cleared up afterwards Did all that about 2.5 years ago.