WT mod completed

[Stubilly]

Performed the WT mod this weekend and a few things I have noticed already.

1. The WTS light pops instantly, use to miss about 2 out of 10 key turns!

2. Shifts better

3. for some reason the truck runs quieter- lotta turbo whine now

 

The bolt I had to use was a 6X1.0 M, Copper terminal ends and soldered after crimp

[Mopar1973Man]

AC noise. What did you measure before at the alternator BATT post and after the W-T mod?

[Stubilly]

47 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

AC noise. What did you measure before at the alternator BATT post and after the W-T mod?

 

I didn't measure it before or after. I did the mod as its a sound easy thing to do. Got the fuse link for the PCM mod as well, installing it this weekend. going to use a 7.5a fuse for it.

Some of the mods that I have seen listed in the forums to me are a ounce of prevention to save a pound of cure later.

 

[dripley]

12 hours ago, Stubilly said:

 

I didn't measure it before or after. I did the mod as its a sound easy thing to do. Got the fuse link for the PCM mod as well, installing it this weekend. going to use a 7.5a fuse for it.

Some of the mods that I have seen listed in the forums to me are a ounce of prevention to save a pound of cure later.

 

This ground mod is by far one of the best. Thanks @W-T

[Stanley]

I need to do this! 

[Mopar1973Man]

23 hours ago, Stubilly said:

Got the fuse link for the PCM mod as well, installing it this weekend. going to use a 7.5a fuse for it.

 

Try a 5A fuse first it might work fine. Better protection. 

[Threadzy]

Yes the W-t mod is a must do for these trucks. I did the pcm mod with the 5amp fuse. It blew a couple days later. Replaced it with the 7.5 and for about 2 years no problem but you should try the 5 amp first. 

[Stubilly]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Try a 5A fuse first it might work fine. Better protection. 

Roger and thx for the input everyone!

[W-T]

On 6/14/2021 at 5:25 AM, Stubilly said:

Performed the WT mod this weekend and a few things I have noticed already.

 

The bolt I had to use was a 6X1.0 M, Copper terminal ends and soldered after crimp

I had seen a few reports that the unused hole I'd selected for concise ground would accommodate "other" sizing. As long as you have a good firm torque setting without "wobble" in thread mating you should be good to go.  It is interesting to see such reports and causes me to question what this unused hole was machined for in the first place. My initial selection worked well for my application and the 10-32 thread count, threaded up perfectly.

 

 

We are dealing with an aluminum housing so, caution should be observed here to prevent damage due to miscalculation.

 

 

@Stubillyyour attention to the details of many contributed articles on this site will certainly allow you to avoid some of the unfortunate pitfalls regarding the 2nd Gen platform. Your successful application of these "Mod's" have been performed by a large majority of the participants and feed back is always appreciated.

 

Over time, I've seen some variations by some members who've elected to short-cut some rather important aspects. May I strongly encourage you to fully double-strap your battery cells. It is very critical to have zero error here, 

This imperative aspect assures "parallel compliance" between the two individual cells with NO ERROR. Yes, I realize grounding to the frame and engine block makes this seem redundant however; "double-strapping" assures absolute "mirror image" of a single battery. The PCM is monitoring the temperature of the Main Battery (drivers side) for the demand of charge rate (from the alternator) at a given temperature and DC load. It is imperative to have that data be purely absolute, so, do not rely on extraneous connections to frame or engine block, all being of dissimilar metals and condition of "the various connection points" to provide "absolute" reference to the PCM's ability to determine "what" charge rate is to be distributed to the storage cells.

 

All of us have our trusty Multi-Meters, DVM's or some such devices to determine voltage and or "resistance" (Ohms scale) in making a "quality" measurement. Please note, these devices have major limitations, especially regarding "resistance"!

 

All of these handheld measurement devices are limited to .2 ohms at best. Many handhelds DVM's are are quite good at measuring large values of resistance however; the ability to observe small values or changes can not be measured due to the inherent design of the given device. Your typical handheld Multi-Meter or DVM displays .2 or .3 ohms of resistance when you touch both probes together. This is showing you the very bottom end of the resistance scale of the device. Factually, when you touch both probes together the display of the device is showing you the actual internal resistance of the device itself. Basically, it is sniffing it's own butt ... sorry for the colorful dissertation.

 

This limit of .2 ohms, is in actuality, rather large in value. I make this point in correlation to the thermistor-sensor  at the Main Battery tray where physical contact between the Battery and the sensor takes place. The circuit within the PCM is monitoring the "varying resistance" of this sensor at a clocked rate of perhaps 800 times per-second, for every half degree C (Celsius) in change or variation of temperature.

 

In regard to trying to measure a varying resistance below what our trusty handheld DVM's will do, an advanced Laboratory Technician or Engineer will resort to a device called a "Wheatstone Bridge" that will measure extremely small amounts of resistance in scales of less than .001 Ohms

 

Now!... we are working at the level our PCM is measuring in accordance to the exact charge level our 12 volt storage cells require or DO NOT REQUIRE. I am NOT suggesting everyone through their DVM's in the trash.

 

Knowing we are limited to the design perimeters of our test instruments and understanding the limits of resolution should allow one to follow a practiced discipline of not following mediocrity. Daimler/Chrysler produced several aspects of mediocrity into these platforms and the enthusiasts who participate here are discriminating individuals looking for corrections.

 

Hence, when you measure a DC circuit for intrinsic resistance or quality of "conduction" and a circuit that is measuring very small parameters in temperature, that rely on an absolute error free DC resistance path, between a pair of large storage cells where only one baby has the thermometer in it's butt....DO NOT TAKE THE LONG PATH HOME. (My respects to Super Tramp, Breakfast in America)  

 

DOUBLE STRAP a true Parallel configuration between the two storage cells and allow your PCM to see a perfect mirror of both cells with NO questionable path to an engine block or frame that can't be measured accurately.

 

Perhaps, the loss of alternator charge error, the loss of boiled off batteries, the procurement of a replacement PCM due to mediocrity in budgetary DC wiring on Daimler/Chrysler's bean-counters demands...gosh there is a lot of blame to go around for the buffoonery.

 

Members who've lost batteries and alternators in very scary scenarios @JAG1 as reference can share observations.

 

@dripley...as you can see, I'm annoying the hell out of everybody!

 

Cheers,

W-T

 

     

 

           

[Stubilly]

W-T:

 

Very mindful information to digest. I do understand the DVM's lack of precision! Luckily if I need one I have access to a Milliohm Meter and a MEGGER ohm meter. We use these in Aviation quite a bit actually doing bonding checks and resistance for grounds. Most of the electronics on an aircraft are highly susceptible to bad grounds, flight in rain, snow, high humidity ect... If I had a mind to go so far, I would actually do a VSWR alignment on the said cables to ensure the load and resistance are equal for each pair. 

 

Now how is being annoying :D

 

I will eventually get to doing your above shown modification, however, I have alot of things that are must be done before I can work parallel battery cables.

 

As others have stated, Thank you for all your hard work and endeavors to help out the community!!

[W-T]

Stu, Wow! Voltage Standing Wave Ratios...indeed!

 

I find it so very contrasting in the mix of individuals who haunt this web site with exceptional backgrounds...it's so funny in generalities, where some people would think we're just a bunch of grease-monkeys playing with diesel pickup trucks. The sophistication one requires to be competent in this days automotive environment is pretty demanding and just assuming we are all a bunch of hicks makes me laugh.

 

Your experience and background in Aviation is an outstanding foundation...again it's so cool to have an affiliation with such individuals !

 

Annoying...not in the least...bring it on

 

Thanks

W-T

   

[JAG1]

As W-T knows I have had two alternators go smokin hot on me. Saw the 150 amp fuse stud and nut holding the B+ cable to fuse holder glowing like a light bulb. First time was a shorted cell in the passenger side battery No 150mamp fuse and holder at that time. Second time with new batteries is when I saw the glowing fuse holder stud and hot alternator. The heat melted away the silver coating on the fuse end but, never blew the fuse. Both times my batteries were not correctly paralleled so the temp sensor could not tell the PCM to slow down charging.

 

W-T, you write so well good to read your write ups. 

[MikeH]

On 6/17/2021 at 6:14 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Try a 5A fuse first it might work fine. Better protection. 

Mike, what goes out if the fuse blows? Alt stops charging, CEL or what?

[Mopar1973Man]

Stops the short circuit from burning up the PCM.  5A is quicker to shut down the short.  7.5A will still work but blows later.

 

Basically in a nutshell the blue wire on the alternator is a tach signal controlled +12V power source. When the alternator field is shorted out on the blue side it will pull the max current which is 20A till the circuit tracer inside the PCM burns up. Which my PCM did so well that it was declared junk because it burned not only the tracers but the fibergalss board too. With no way to repair. This is why I opted for 5A fuse so if the short occurs then the fuse blow out super quick and no damage comes to the PCM.

 

This is where the external regulator stems from because once the trace burns the alternator stops charging. So most installed external regulators. Now the problem is that all the external regulators from Mopar were temperature sensitive since 1962 or 1963 or so. As the under hood temperature would change the charging rate of the alternator would too. Common mistakes is trying the external regulator and either mounting it in a spot to hot (like near the turbo of exhaust) this will make it undercharge. Then I've seen a few mount in too cool of a place and now it overcharges and boils the batteries out.

 

So the whole PCM protection fuse is to prevent damage from short circuit on the blue wire. 

 

NOTE: If the green wire was to short to ground it would charge at max rate. No damage comes to the PCM at all. Only the blue wire will do damage.

[MikeH]

If I'm reading you right, if the fuse blows you just lost your alternator. Again, other than seeing battery voltage slowly drop off is there any other indication that the fuse has just blown? I have a ScanGauge so I will see a code and would eventually figure it out but will something jump out on the display (CEL, etc) that screams "Go check your alt and replace the fuse too"?

[Mopar1973Man]

11 hours ago, MikeH said:

If I'm reading you right, if the fuse blows you just lost your alternator.

 

Yes. Secret. When the battery voltage goes from 12.00 to 11.99 the voltage will drop to 8 and chime the CHECK GAGES light. In my truck the cigarette light is gone and I installed a dual USB port with volt gauge. It also shows the actual running voltage. No codes will be thrown till the batter voltage drops to near 10 volts then a low charging volt code will be thrown. After 8 volts the engine will die. None of the computers will function below 8 volts. 

 

I've got a 5A fuse on the blue wire. I've had the fuse work its way out and stop charging. Simply just squeezed the contacts slightly and re-install the fuse. Still in all the volt gauge will not be pointing at 14 any longer as soon as the fuse blows or in my case fell out. 

 

I've also got a 150A circuit breaker on the charge wire to the passenger battery. I've NEVER had that circuit breaker trip once yet. I've physically press the trip button and again the battery voltage drops from 14 (13.5 to 14.5 normally) to about 12 volts and continues to decline till either the circuit breaker is rest or the problem located. 

 

431k miles and still rolling. The W-T ground wire mod and my PCM protection fuse has been working flawless for the last 2 to 3 years with no real issues. 

 

[MikeH]

12 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Yes. Secret. When the battery voltage goes from 12.00 to 11.99 the voltage will drop to 8 and chime the CHECK GAGES light. In my truck the cigarette light is gone and I installed a dual USB port with volt gauge. It also shows the actual running voltage. No codes will be thrown till the batter voltage drops to near 10 volts then a low charging volt code will be thrown. After 8 volts the engine will die. None of the computers will function below 8 volts. 

 

I've got a 5A fuse on the blue wire. I've had the fuse work its way out and stop charging. Simply just squeezed the contacts slightly and re-install the fuse. Still in all the volt gauge will not be pointing at 14 any longer as soon as the fuse blows or in my case fell out. 

 

I've also got a 150A circuit breaker on the charge wire to the passenger battery. I've NEVER had that circuit breaker trip once yet. I've physically press the trip button and again the battery voltage drops from 14 (13.5 to 14.5 normally) to about 12 volts and continues to decline till either the circuit breaker is rest or the problem located. 

 

431k miles and still rolling. The W-T ground wire mod and my PCM protection fuse has been working flawless for the last 2 to 3 years with no real issues. 

 

    "When the battery voltage goes from 12.00 to 11.99 the voltage will drop to 8 and chime the CHECK GAGES light"

   Good to know. I just replaced the alternator which was OEM at ~ 200k miles. It worked just fine so it's in my tool box as an emergency spare. Wonder how long a guy could go with the alt out. I would imagine if the lights aren't on, the radio isn't blasting and AC/blower off you could get pretty far before running out of juice.

   Anyway, thanks for the heads up.

[Tractorman]

2 hours ago, MikeH said:

I would imagine if the lights aren't on, the radio isn't blasting and AC/blower off you could get pretty far before running out of juice.

 

Mostly depends on the condition of both batteries.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

10 hours ago, MikeH said:

Wonder how long a guy could go with the alt out.

 

I've seen a 1st Gen truck run over 8 hours with no other accessories running. 

 

8 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

Mostly depends on the condition of both batteries.

 

- John

 

Yup if the batteries are junk the time is going to be pretty short. If you got good strong batteries you could go for hours. Like Beast (2002 Dodge) I've got all LEDs lighting in the truck and reduced my electrical loads by a bunch. Each bulb is like barely 500mA.

 

Just a feel... Here is the front marker lights I'm using...

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[MikeH]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I've seen a 1st Gen truck run over 8 hours with no other accessories running. 

   Oh hell...I could go on for days then. I pulled the batteries from under the hood and have 4 group 31 Marine Batteries installed in the bed in front of the rear wheel wells. Also put a battery selector switch between the two sets of batteries so when we're camping I can use two for power (12 volt + 3000 watt Inverter) while saving the other two for starting only.

   Along with carrying a spare alternator, I can check that problem off my list of things to worry about.