Head Leak

[Alexio Auditore]

Must be the year of head gaskets, because mines leaking as well, but im trying to hold off a little longer so I can be without the truck for a time.

 

But I'm not sure if I'm leaking from another spot in the front as well?

There is a plug that is underneath the thermostat housing that seems to be wet, even after driving a while. I know it's leaking above it, but that evaporates during the drive, while from the plug down, it doesn't. I can't tell if there is coolant leaking from the waterpump as well. I wipe it clean, start the truck, and I can see coolant coming up around between the pump and block, but that could be trapped coolant that is coming up between the two due to the engine vibration.

On top of this, I wiped the area down last night, and when I went for a drive and came home, checked again, and it seems like I have a oily film that was sitting of the housing of the water pump? Not much, but not green like coolant. Could I be getting some oil to come out from the head as well where it is leaking coolant? Is there a oil gallery there? (Passenger from)

No oil in coolant, no coolant in oil either (just did oil change sunday)  

The gear case is wet with both oil and coolant below the water pump, and seems I'm leaking a little oil on from the gear case  next to where the fan bolts to the block...

I went through some of the bolts on the gear case and found a least one that was very loose, so maybe that's contributes to some of my oil leaking issues

[Dieselfuture]

I'm pretty sure you can have both water and oil leak in the front of the head gasket. When I changed mine it was only leaking oil from the front middle bolt. Most water leaks are right by the thermostat housing. You can probably go for a while without changing it.

[Mopar1973Man]

First head gasket was the passenger rear of the head with a coolant leak.

 

Second was in front with a oil leak from around the push rod hole.

[Doubletrouble]

 So @Mopar1973Man, you've changed head gaskets twice on your '02 I assume?

 Are these engines just prone to head gasket issues or is something else going on? I realize the miles you have on yours and the mods to, are those a contributing factor? Just curious. I noticed a bit of oil below the head gasket on mine, passenger side rear below the exhaust manifold. Couldn't tell where it was coming from for sure. Difficult to see back there.

 Didn't mean to hijack, I'll be watching this thread.

[Tractorman]

Save yourself some diagnostic time.  Pressure check for a coolant leak with a cooling system pressure tester.  Perform the test on a cold engine.  You will find the exact leak location quickly.

 

- John

[dripley]

3 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

Are these engines just prone to head gasket issues or is something else going on? I realize the miles you have on yours and the mods to, are those a contributing factor? Just curious. I noticed a bit of oil below the head gasket on mine, passenger side rear below the exhaust manifold. Couldn't tell where it was coming from for sure. Difficult to see back there

Mine started leaking at the right front corner of the head at about 450k. I was surprised to find that it was not uncommon in that location or the rear of the head for that matter. But at my mileage I just took it in stride. At 450k things happen. Repaired it about 20k later and have about 65k on the repair. All is good.

[Silverwolf2691]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:03 PM, Doubletrouble said:

Are these engines just prone to head gasket issues or is something else going on?

 

If I remember correctly, the OE Cummins head gasket had an issue with the front corner where the thermostat is. But they revised the gasket and corrected the issue. I think there was not enough sealing in that area in regards to the gasket material.

 

Been a while since I did mine. FWIW, mine leaked directly above the oil cooler and below the thermostat area. 

[Mopar1973Man]

First one was head curl after 350k miles.

 

This next one we would say excessive timing, excessive drive pressure, and a heavy foot. Made 50 PSI of boost and died. Blew all the fuel rails out. Had to reprime the VP44 to get it started.

[Doubletrouble]

 Thanks for the replies. Just wondering if this was something I should plan on going bad in the future or what. 

 Would it help to retorque all the head bolts if I would have the valve cover off for another reason.

 I don't think I have to worry about excessive timing like @Mopar1973Man. I don't really have any major mods and don't plan on many really.

[Mopar1973Man]

20 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Would it help to retorque all the head bolts if I would have the valve cover off for another reason.

 

If they where studs then yes. Head bolts will just stretch more. This why you have to measure the total bolt length to verify if they can be used again.

 

Biggest thing is make sure to use the limits on the iQuad. Warmup mode (at least 140F), boost limit (based on your turbo stock should be limited to 35 PSI), EGT limits (1200F suggested), etc. My mistake was reaching to far up in power with limits to high... EGT limit was set for 1400, no boost limit, warm up was set for 140. Basically from talking I built up too much drive pressure and lifted the head. Then coupled with high timing yup I blew the head gasket. Live and learn from my mistakes.

[MikeH]

Anyone know the timing on a stock '02 HO engine. I believe they increased the timing a little on the HO engine but don't know the numbers. Also, does the OEM map increase timing as the RPM's increase. Quadzilla lets you do this at will and I would think (hope) they don't let you do something stupid.

I have an early version Quadzilla XZT+ and leave it in 'Fuel Economy" mode. This Increases timing a few degrees across the board. What I don't know is where normal timing starts and how much my XZT increase it. Anyone?

[Mopar1973Man]

Just set it for level zero. Then watch the timing value you can build a tune to mimic stock timing. Also level zero is stock (Quadzilla is disabled).

[LorenS]

20 hours ago, MikeH said:

This Increases timing a few degrees across the board.

There's a way to do this with the Adrenaline, too. "Super secret setting". I'll see if I can find it on this site or just check one of my tunes and let you know how to enable this setting.

 

Okay, if you go into the tune and under the heading "Timing Parameters" set them all to 0. Then open up the "equalizer" and add a few degrees however you see fit. I did 3, 5, 7, 7, 7 on the RPM and Max settings. Remember, those settings are ADDED to the stock timing.

Edited June 27, 2021 by LorenS

[Alexio Auditore]

So I've been keeping an eye on the leak, and it's definitely got worse, it will have a half dollar wet spot on the ground in the morning. What's weird, it seems to be coming from around the water pump? I don't recall an oil line from there. But I cleaned off, drove 10 miles, and looked, and there was oil sitting on top of the water pump, and that was the wettest area...here are a few pics....

 

 

 

And this is after I cleaned and went for a drive....

 

 

 

It looks like it's seeping from around the water pump housing? Everything around and above it is dry....

[Doubletrouble]

In the first pic it looks like that pipe plug is leaking. 

[Silverwolf2691]

On that last photo, the oil spots look spotted like they were splattered onto the fan hub bracket. The closest oil gets in that area is the timing case below and the oil cooler that the filter is attached to, but that's behind everything. You cleaned the area, but I think it might time to wipe down the side and front from top to bottom. Get everything dry and oil free then go for a drive to see what's leaking and where. Another thing you could do is stick the phone camera down in that area, just above the water pump, and snap a photo. You would be amazed at how far liquid moves when on an edge.

 

I don't know what's behind that pipe plug, I think its coolant because there isn't any reason for the oil to be there. And the rockers get oil up from the cam or "oil rifle", forget which. Wanted to design a billet wet block Cummins, was doing the research and needed to figure out how oil and coolant are moved throughout the engine.

 

Best approximation in photo. 

 

     

[Alexio Auditore]

So I finally got a day to clean the front of the engine off. Greasy! And I think I found the leak....

 

Just underneath the water pump. Close to the fan pulley. Went for a 3 mile drive and it went from clean to this....

 

Why does the orange gasket just stop abruptly here? The oil is coming coming from above it...

And the wet spot on the water pump is oil....is it being blown up there from The fan? There isn't an oil gallery behind behind water pump right?

Could I maybe get away with caulking it for a time? It seems to be leaking more than I did now that it's all clean.

[Mopar1973Man]

I would use grey RTV to attempt to seal that.

[Mopar1973Man]

If you wanna fix it correctly you'll need the gear case gasket. Then you would remove everything in front. Radiator, intercooler, etc. Now you would have to make a set of wooden dowels to pull the tappets up. Then pull the cam out and then the gear case comes off. Now you can re-seal the gear case properly. 

[Silverwolf2691]

What MoparMan said, grey RTV to quick fix or you have to strip almost the entire front of the truck off. I think the alternator and A/C can stay but VP44 on down including the cam.. and the cam means rockers and pushrods out too. 

 

  

 

Im kinda worried where that part of the gasket went.. The photo is from the engine, looking at the radiator. You seem to be missing the long piece with no holes at a 45° angle that heads up to where the VP44 is.