Killer dowl pin questions

[Doubletrouble]

 I may or may not have asked about this before. I searched but didn't find anything so here we go.

 My truck is a 2001 3500. Is this KDP I've read about an issue or was it resolved before my truck was built? I have a mechanic at work (trucking comoany) that says I need to tear into the front of the engine and put a tab washer on the bolt closest to this pin to stop it from backing out. I have read about it quite a bit and got no definitive answer as to whether or not they fixed the issue by '01 model year.

 Any input? Thanks all!

 Also, sorry if this has been discussed before, maybe I don't know how to use the search correctly.

[Silverwolf2691]

You might have a new enough truck that it received the new timing case. They put a step in the bore to close up the hole enough to keep the pin from falling out.

 

When I did my front crank seal I looked and saw that I had the updated case. I don't know if mine came from the factory that way or not, I'm guessing mine got swapped at some point because I don't have a data tag. And the holes for the rivets look untouched. 

 

Short answer is yes it could be an issue, but you wont know for sure until you pull the front cover. Pulling the timing cover isn't hard, its just time consuming because all the bolt are different lengths that hold the cover on and You have to take the harmonic damper and fan pulley/bracket off. And you should replace the crank seal. 

 

  

 

A is the dowel pin in question, B is some damage that can occur.

 

     

 

Updated case, cant just use a ground down washer 

[Mopar1973Man]

There was only ONE 2001 Dodge I know of with a KDP problem that was documented by the dealer. Other than that it should of been resolved in 2000. 

[Dieselfuture]

True ^^^ but in reality you'll never know for sure until you look. I'm in the same boat, been thinking about it ever since I got the truck. I have no leaks in the front at the moment so I'm not going to do anything at this time. The other thing most don't think about is case bolts that can come out and do just as much damage, not as often but I've heard of it happening. I'm guessing if your case gasket is starting to leak it's a good sign of bolts working lose. 

[Doubletrouble]

 To bad there is no way of knowing if you have the updated case cover without opening it up. 

 Until the mechanic at work started questioning me about it I wasn't all that concerned really. Now he has me 2nd guessing it again. 

[wil440]

Totally different year I know but 98.5 I checked mine when I first got it, yes it could have come out, no step as you would have thought, dowel was tight BUT 2 bolts right there were finger tight and they could have come out, I torqued all the bolts, made a KDP keeper plate out of a washer that is a bit egg shaped from a 440 Mopar intake manifold bolt that has the throttle return spring on it, think the washer came with a Demon carb I fitted to a 69 charger a few years ago, changed the front seal and all good, not a bad job really, changed the WP at the same time

[Mopar1973Man]

Heck I just drop into the local hardware store and grab a fender washer and then using a grinder and grind it into a tear drop shape and then bolting it down. Super cheap. 

[wil440]

26 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Heck I just drop into the local hardware store and grab a fender washer and then using a grinder and grind it into a tear drop shape and then bolting it down. Super cheap. 

Mine was cheaper than super cheap as it was in the bolt bucket

[Mopar1973Man]

I wish I've used up most of my fender washers. 

[Doubletrouble]

So I am planning on a coolant flush before fall. Should I just go ahead and replace the water pump to and do the KDP keeper/front seal as well?

[wil440]

6 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

So I am planning on a coolant flush before fall. Should I just go ahead and replace the water pump to and do the KDP keeper/front seal as well?

I only did my WP because it was a tiny bit wet on the tell tale hole and I do mean a tiny bit, once it was warm it was a no show but when cool it was just wet/damp so I now have a useable spare if I need it, this is unfortunatly the only way to run a american vehicle here in the UK, fast shipping from R/A is quick but costs £££ so depending on weight it can be 10 days to get to my door so I'm surrounded by new parts, good used parts, bad used parts just in case there is something I can use 

On the other hand I'd think a W/P for you guys would be cheap enough just to throw one on while the front is off, guess it depends on availability 

I'd say at least pull the cover and check the KDP and cover bolts as it's a gasket and a seal and a bit of time, it's best to find you did it for no reason whatsoever rather than looking at the front after a grenade has gone off and thinking "I wish"  mines 24 years old nearly and I have no idea what monkeys have owned it and what stupid stuff they did, my 3500 was the worst, straight from the twin towers clean up cutting steel girders around 2003/2004 IIRC, thing was a death trap, I drove it back from Southampton docks thinking WTF have I bought, my fault really as I went to NY to buy it but it was so cheap I didn't drive it and to be fair me driving in the sticks and on the left you can kiss goodbye to me driving in NY/NJ. Pulled to the right and I mean PULLED every steering joint not just worn but crackered, no brakes (one rear brake was working)

Sorry I digress

[Doubletrouble]

I'm sure that truck was very abused and disposable to whom ever used it. Hopefully you got it all worked out. 

 I may just replace the water pump to since I'll have the cooling system open already. Gonna get all the pieces and parts lined up and here. It's my daily driver so it can't be down for long. I could use the wife's car but........na

[MikeH]

I did my '02 a few years back just in case. Bought the KDP and crank seal kit more for peace of mind than anything else. It occurred to me after doing this job that there might be an even simpler answer to this problem. Why couldn't you just take a center punch and give the lip of the hole a ping or two around the edge. That would expand the metal enough to make the hole a little out of round. No way the dowel could walk out now. The dowel pin is a pretty tight fit and there's no real force pushing it out. It's just engine vibrations causing it to creep out a little at a time. I think any distortion at the lip of the hole would stop it in it's tracks. JMO 

[JAG1]

Also heat/cooling cycles make it walk out. Actually I am surprised your 2002 had one since I read somewhere the 02's rarely have one.

 

BY THE WAY, How many you guys ever seen one floating loose ready to come out? I know a few of you have. Some guys say if you have 250,000 miles on your engine and you haven't had it come out that the likely hood of it ever coming out is nil. I say it best not to take a chance. If you have high miles it's good to go ahead with a new crank seal when doing it. That and retorquing the gear case bolts on block side of the gear case too.

 

 

 

 

[MikeH]

19 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Actually I am surprised your 2002 had one since I read somewhere the 02's rarely have one.

 

It had a dowel pin alright but it didn't look like it had moved at all. I was around the 150k mile mark so I was going in after the crank seal anyway. I'm hoping the rear seal holds up until the clutch needs changing. That job is going to a shop. The 350lb NV5600 tranny is too much for my wife to support while I take out the bolts!!!

[JAG1]

Don't go ceramic clutch, shop says they a POS. Had a guy haul an rv for me with a ceramic clutch, what a pain, it just wouldn't slip, kept stalling the Cummins. MoparMan uses a ratchet strap to raise and lower the trans but, a trans jack would work. My floor jack would work too as I've made several adaptive pieces using wood to fit on the lifting plate. I have my wife operate the jack while I'm under there works real good for me.

 

They still haven't caught three legged Dripley, cops after him... always gets away.... was seen doing 130 in the mergency lane other day.

Edited August 9, 2021 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

14 hours ago, MikeH said:

I did my '02 a few years back just in case. Bought the KDP and crank seal kit more for peace of mind than anything else. It occurred to me after doing this job that there might be an even simpler answer to this problem. Why couldn't you just take a center punch and give the lip of the hole a ping or two around the edge. That would expand the metal enough to make the hole a little out of round. No way the dowel could walk out now. The dowel pin is a pretty tight fit and there's no real force pushing it out. It's just engine vibrations causing it to creep out a little at a time. I think any distortion at the lip of the hole would stop it in it's tracks. JMO 

 

The upgraded case they had to add quite a bit of metal around the hole. The old case was a suppose to prevent that but with vibration it eats the aluminum case and then continues to walk through. Hence why the case was redesign with even smaller hole to prevent walking out.