Another new guy from Mtn Home

[Bob the Builder]

Howdy all, looks like a great place.

Just got a 2001.5 2500 6 speed from my sister who had it since new, and my first Dodge diesel. 240,000 on the clock and seems all stock. So go figure drove it once to show a friend, parked it to put in fuel pressure, pyro and boost. Started it up to move it out of the shop - ran 10 ft and died. So the research is how I found this place. Had to join just to see how the rest of you are doing the deed and figure this thing out.

[IBMobile]

Welcome to the forum.

Seeing that you put a fuel gauge in may have introduced an air leak into the system and caused fuel starvation.  You can check if there is fuel at the VP44 injection pump inlet fitting when the starter motor is engaged; if so then "crack open" the fuel lines at injectors 3,4, and 5 and see if fuel comes out of them when cranking.  

[Stanley]

X2 ^^^^^

 

Putting your tee in for guage, that's when you put air in the line and she puttered out. Easy fix, 5 min.

 

*Unless something else major or unknown that going on.

[Mopar1973Man]

I agree with above comments.

 

Bump the starter with the key this will start the prime cycle of the lift pump. Check you work for fuel leaks not to mention is the lift pump working?

[Bob the Builder]

Yep definitely introduced some air. But I think the lift pump had gone.  Before I ordered a new pump I loosened the banjo at the filter, no fuel with the long or short cycle. Loosened the banjo at the VP44, same. Couldn't hear any pump noise ever.

Got new FASS from  Genos and the remote mount installed yesterday, tonite  will test the power supply and the old pump for function and keep for spare if it still works. When I disconnected the fuel line to shorten it was dry clear to the tank. Evidently no checkvalve in the system?

Was going to relocate it anyway. Adjusted the valves while it was down, don't think it had ever been done. Had no gaskets between heater element, horn and intake manifold so somebody had it off at one time.

Sister always had some shop do her maintenance work. Rear suspension still original, shocks, sway bar links and rubbers I replaced already. Emergency brake doesn't work, will have to chase that down.

Will get to the PCM and WT mods hopefully this weekend. 
You guys have already been a wealth of knowledge and I thank you very much for that and the welcome.

Bob

[Tractorman]

@Bob the Builder, if the lift pump is still located in the factory position by the fuel filter housing, this means that the power supply for the lift pump is probably provided directly from the ECM.  The FASS lift pump you are installing should be relayed and the coil portion of the relay triggered by the ECM.  This will remove a considerable electrical load from the ECM.  The switched portion of the relay should have a fuse between the relay and an unswitched power source.  Also, the coil portion of the relay should be protected by an internal diode.

 

- John 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Tractorman

[Bob the Builder]

Oh boy. Mechanics I can do. Electrics are mostly Greek. Is there a picture set I can study for that? There was no mention of that anywhere I read prior to purchase. 

Yes the original lift pump was in stock position. The new pump is the DRP and not the fancy set.

Bob

Edited to add would relocation of the original pump need the relay system also due to length of power wiring or is it the current draw of the FASS DRP?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Bob the Builder

[IBMobile]

Here's an article about installing a fuel pump relay.

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/51_engine/59_fuel/installing-protective-lift-pump-relay-r501/

[Tractorman]

I am the original owner of my truck.  The VP44 injection pump failed around year 2005 and Dodge warrantied the injection pump and also installed an in-tank lift pump to replace the block mounted lift pump.  They installed a lift pump relay.  All repairs were done under warranty.  This was Dodge's fix for problem lift pumps and problem VP44's back then.  I have since installed a frame mounted FASS lift pump, probably the same lift pump you mentioned.  I used the existing relay for the lift pump operation.

 

The main point is to reduce the electrical load through the ECM to extend the reliability and life of the ECM.  So, whether or not you keep the old lift pump location or frame mount a different lift pump, it is important to wire in a relay for the lift pump.

 

It is not as hard as you may think to properly wire in a frame mounted lift pump.  I see that @IBMobilehas directed you to the appropriate article.

 

- John

Edited November 24, 2021 by Tractorman

[Bob the Builder]

I thank you both for the info. The relay seems to be identical to the existing relays in the PDU for the horn and several other items. Essentially we are just wiring it to a separate stronger power source outside of the PDU and thru a diode for reverse current protection. I will source some parts and get started.

Kind of nervous making to dive into so many alterations all at once together at the same time. If something goes astray there are a lot of places to backtrack

It seems the fuel pump should be first, start and ensure vehicle runs. Then the W-T mod and run again. Then the PCU and ditto.

Is this the right progression?

Bob

Edited to add: Planning to take the winch off of my old Ford and move to this truck. Looking at the 150 amp breaker at the aux battery does that hold for a 8000 pound winch with extended use or does it need another solution before I buy a breaker and install?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Bob the Builder
Winch power

[Bob the Builder]

Ok did some further reading on the Nations Alt & W-T Mod and see the winch powered from the aux battery with the dual cable set. New truck new systems takes a few reads to soak in the knowledge in some of these tutorials.

W-t posits no need for the breaker inline from alternator, others make a case for. Has anyone had issue with the breaker inline with heavy winch use? I am not adverse to either method.

I know search is your friend and am using it as quickly as I can.

Bob

[Mopar1973Man]

The dual battery cables will gain you nothing most likely. You can do a voltage drop to verify if the cable is needed but most of the time no. Even on my truck under load the voltage drop with stock cables on the negative side is 0.003 (3 mV drop). Then to verify if the dual is needed just hook up jump cables to each negative post and test again. In my case it was still 0.003 (3 mV drop) drop. So no change and nothing to be gained on dual cables. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Dieselfuture]

57 minutes ago, Bob the Builder said:

Has anyone had issue with the breaker inline with heavy winch use?

I used my winch few times with regular 2 batteries and 150amp fuse with no issues, I suppose if you're going to use it alot auxiliary battery may work better.

[Mopar1973Man]

Only works good "IF"...

• Battery are in good condition and not discharged.
• Alternator is up to the task and not exceeding the 150 Amp breaker

If the circuit breaker is tripping quite a bit look at the batteries. It not a circuit breaker problem nor is it a alternator problem. Even changing to a fuse its possible to keep blowing 150A fuses too. Again its the batteries that are not keeping up with the task. I've dealt with this in the past. Double cables on the negative did nothing. Changing from 150A circuit breaker to a 150A fuse did nothing. But now replacing the batteries that were weak problem gone...

[LorenS]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:12 PM, Bob the Builder said:

Kind of nervous making to dive into so many alterations all at once together at the same time. If something goes astray there are a lot of places to backtrack

Your order of operations makes sense to me.  Also, I have installed the FASS DRP on my frame and it works great for my truck. I actually started by just relocating the factory pump and saw immediate gain in fuel pressure. Last year I got rid of the silly disposable prefilter and added a big spin-on screen. I made a quick post about it at the time, I'll search for it and post the link.

 

https://mopar1973man.com/topic/18093-donaldson-upstream-spin-on-screen/

Edited November 26, 2021 by LorenS
Added link

[Bob the Builder]

Thank you LorenS. Didn't think much of the dinky either but wasn't sure how much preload suction was good for the FASS pump. Shouldn't take much to get the lift pump damaging dirt out ahead of the lift pump. I wonder just how good a job the factory water separator does. Which may be why the market for the more expensive FASS options huh.
A careful person would ensure clean fuel to the tank and never suck off the bottom 1/8 if possible but things happen. I have 120 gallon saddle tanks on all my rigs so as to never run a main tank empty.

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, Bob the Builder said:

wasn't sure how much preload suction was good for the FASS pump

I don't really know the answer to that, but I know this big spin-on version has less pressure drop, just by blowing through them both.  Inside, it's a rather fine (140 micron) metal screen, it's not a "filter", per se.  I really think that big canister acts like a big sediment bowl, too.  The velocity through it has got to be a snail's pace compared to the inline filter.  One of these days I'll cut it open to see what it caught.  At around 300k miles I cleaned the inside of my fuel tank, though a previous owner may have cleaned it before.  I got enough crap out of there to fill a tuna can, and it had about clogged the filter sock.

 

In 75k miles I have cracked the water separator several times on my truck between filter changes, and all that has run out has been fuel.  The WIF light was never on, it was just convenient so I did it.  I do my best to fill up at places where it looks like they care about (and service) their equipment/filters, so maybe that's why I haven't got any water.  My 2005 Volkswagen is a diesel, and it doesn't have a water separator or water sensor.  Maybe it's true that western Europe has higher standards for fuel and cleanliness.

[IBMobile]

2 hours ago, Bob the Builder said:

never suck off the bottom 1/8 if possible

The fuel pickup sits just off the bottom of the tank, so if full or at 1/8 the pump is always sucking off the bottom.

[Mopar1973Man]

All fuel pickups suck from the bottom. That is the first to go. That means anything heavier than diesel fuel will sink to the bottom and be first consumed. Like dirt, water, etc.

[Bob the Builder]

Well dang, so much for great ideas. I guess that makes sense elsewise you couldn't run the tank empty. Duh.

Don't know how often sister drained the water out of her filter but when I removed the old lift pump there was none in the can.

The saddle tank is clean inside and out.