Okay I’ll admit it I need assistance. Post WT mod issues.

[99ramguy]

Ok, for some background, I’ve got 11 years working as a heavy wheel mechanic for the army and I’ve taught basic electrical, so I’m not a complete Mo-Ron at least when it comes to this stuff.

 

I completed the WT mod as well as the PCM protection fuse … 

 

before the mod WTS would come on after about 5-6 second (I know) and truck would start right up no problem. Would do the trans lock unlock deal other wise run fine. 
 

During the mod I noticed some real janky wiring on the APPS harness (see pics)

I repaired the broken and damaged wires and tested good continuity. Also noticed someone tapped a ground to the blk/blu wire on the apps harness so I took that off. 

after completing the mod I go to start it and the WTS comes on but doesn’t shut off and when I crank the key it starts right up but jumps straight to 2k RPM and just hangs there. I have traced the blk/blu wire all the way to the ecm and it is good, I have checked for 5v to the apps (good), I unplugged my quadzilla and to my surprise the WTS light did it’s normal deal Where it comes on after 5 secs,  cycles the fuel pump, and shuts off..I go to turn it on and it still jumps up to 1800 rpm immediately…all the grounds are connected..everything is plugged in, I’ve done the apps reset…to no avail…

p.s. I know the battery connections aren’t ideal I have military style lugs and terminals on the way, but it’s been running with these connection since I got it 2 months ago.

 

please help I need an adult.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by 99ramguy

[W-T]

Gosh...the previous work done prior to your effort is what I'm concerned about. The idle climbing to 2k and hanging is an issue. Prior to performing any changes did you see this idle issue?

 

[99ramguy]

No, no issue. I’m gonna unplug the ecm and check continuity on all 6 wires coming from APPS to ecm.

I will say the apps plug is RIDICULOUSLY hard to unplug and this time one of the pins was pulled out a little so I’m wondering if it’s misaligning when plugging it back in

39 minutes ago, W-T said:

Gosh...the previous work done prior to your effort is what I'm concerned about. The idle climbing to 2k and hanging is an issue. Prior to performing any changes did you see this idle issue?

 

Well looks like all six wires from the apps plug to the ecm are good black/yellow and blu/blk has .2 ohms and the rest were zero or .1..

 

its looking more like ecm issue, unless I’m just not getting the apps plugged in right. That’s the only thing I messed without outside of the WT mod. I’m about to put that stupid ground tap that was on there back on and see if it goes away 

Edited May 5, 2022 by 99ramguy

[W-T]

OK...The APPS plug has 6 total connections.

 

It's numbered funny and if you have the Factory Service manual or access to a wire/diagram it would help.

 

Pin #1 is the shared master ground for many sensors and terminates at Pin #11 of the ECU it should be BLK/ Lite Blu trace

Pin #6 is Idle Validation "OFF" and terminates at Pin #01 of the ECU it should be BRN/ORG trace

Pin #2 is Idle Validation "ON" and terminates at Pin #16 of the ECU it should be BRN/Dark Blu

Pin #4 is APPS Return and terminates at Pin #32 of the ECU it should be BLK/Yellow trace

Pin # 3 is APPS Signal and terminates at Pin #25 of the ECU it should be Lite BLU/BLK trace

Pin #5 is +5V dc and terminates at Pin #31 of the ECU it should be Dark Blu/White trace

 

I'm viewing a PDF file as my Factory Service manual is not available to me.

 

Your reference of BLK/Blu tagged to ground is confusing me. I know you removed it but, I don't wish to cause you additional stress.

 

[99ramguy]

2 minutes ago, W-T said:

OK...The APPS plug has 6 total connections.

 

It's numbered funny and if you have the Factory Service manual or access to a wire/diagram it would help.

 

Pin #1 is the shared master ground for many sensors and terminates at Pin #11 of the ECU it should be BLK/ Lite Blu trace

Pin #6 is Idle Validation "OFF" and terminates at Pin #01 of the ECU it should be BRN/ORG trace

Pin #2 is Idle Validation "ON" and terminates at Pin #16 of the ECU it should be BRN/Dark Blu

Pin #4 is APPS Return and terminates at Pin #32 of the ECU it should be BLK/Yellow trace

Pin # 3 is APPS Signal and terminates at Pin #25 of the ECU it should be Lite BLU/BLK trace

Pin #5 is +5V dc and terminates at Pin #31 of the ECU it should be Dark Blu/White trace

 

I'm viewing a PDF file as my Factory Service manual is not available to me.

 

Your reference of BLK/Blu tagged to ground is confusing me. I know you removed it but, I don't wish to cause you additional stress.

 

Yes using the service manual I verified continuity from all six wires at the apps plug to the ECM.

black/blu would be the master ground from pin 1 to pin11 on ecm..that’s the one that was tapped to ground.

[W-T]

OK... Avoid taking Pin #5 (Drk Blu/White trace) to ground...that is 5Volts dc...it will be a big issue.

An Additional Parallel ground won't hurt in that regard.

Your background looks good...wouldn't you just love to grab the guy by the throat who performed such previous work..golly it's messy!

[99ramguy]

5 minutes ago, W-T said:

OK... Avoid taking Pin #5 (Drk Blu/White trace) to ground...that is 5Volts dc...it will be a big issue.

An Additional Parallel ground won't hurt in that regard.

Your background looks good...wouldn't you just love to grab the guy by the throat who performed such previous work..golly it's messy!

Yes yes I would.

 

I hope it’s not the ecm..it was fine before so idk why out would be ..but it would be my luck 

[W-T]

Try taking the Quadzilla off line and perform a test, the idle issue must be corrected prior to moving forward. I can't imagine you loosing the ECU in these simple procedures.

[99ramguy]

10 minutes ago, W-T said:

Try taking the Quadzilla off line and perform a test, the idle issue must be corrected prior to moving forward. I can't imagine you loosing the ECU in these simple procedures.

Well you won’t believe it.. re tapping the blk/blu wire into the APPS fixed it…it makes me wonder if the ecm isn’t pushing the ground to the wire…but it’s weird because the  coolant sensor which shares the circuit shows 5v …then again it may be getting ground from the block so..I’m at a loss

 

my thoughts: previous owner had an issue with it running, took it to shop, rather than replacing ecm they cheated it by ground tapping the sensor to block ground 

Edited May 5, 2022 by 99ramguy

[W-T]

When you closely study the "grounding" that is shared at KEY points you'll see the redundancy that was employed in factory assembly. The W-T mod (original long explanation) is worthy of your time and performed correctly will eliminate several electronic faux-pas the factory assembly induced.

 

Hey...I'm pleased you've made head way into this inherited mess...you are a brave and worthy soul 

 

PS welcome to Mopar1973 Man, hopefully it will help improve your experience.

Edited May 5, 2022 by W-T
Welcome

[99ramguy]

7 minutes ago, W-T said:

When you closely study the "grounding" that is shared at KEY points you'll see the redundancy that was employed in factory assembly. The W-T mod (original long explanation) is worthy of your time and performed correctly will eliminate several electronic faux-pas the factory assembly induced.

 

Hey...I'm pleased you've made head way into this inherited mess...you are a brave and worthy soul 

 

PS welcome to Mopar1973 Man, hopefully it will help improve your experience.

Yeah for sure haha! I will say on the bright side, everything regarding the wt mod and pcm protection is working great. 

[hdpwipmonkey]

If your WTS is not coming on for 5-6 secs then your ECM may not be long for this world.  Also, if you go to replace the APPS then make sure you go with a TIMBOs.  Super easy to replace and set up.  

 

BTW... you're wiring looks great.   Nice connections and lugs.  Your terminals don't look bad either.  I've seen a LOT worse (including mine before replacing the cables and terminals).

 

One other thing, welcome!

Edited May 6, 2022 by hdpwipmonkey

[Max Tune]

I agree. You definitely have an ecm issue. Like you said, seems like someone figured a way around the issue, but I think your going to be sending it out for repairs sooner than later.

Welcome to the site.

[LorenS]

In your second picture it looks like you're trying to get a good ground through two rusty-*** nuts. If that's the case I'd fix that before I bothered to do anything else.

[JAG1]

1 hour ago, LorenS said:

In your second picture it looks like you're trying to get a good ground through two rusty-*** nuts. If that's the case I'd fix that before I bothered to do anything else.

I saw that too. Many times I use sand paper to clean contact surfaces and use dielectric grease or like MoparMan I place a few drops of oil on each battery post/ terminals with a lite coating.

 

Oh yes, welcome to the  Diesel talk place... Mopar1973Man.com.

Edited May 6, 2022 by JAG1

[99ramguy]

1 hour ago, LorenS said:

In your second picture it looks like you're trying to get a good ground through two rusty-*** nuts. If that's the case I'd fix that before I bothered to do anything else.

Those rusty nuts were sanded at the contact surface before reinstalled don’t worry lol

2 hours ago, hdpwipmonkey said:

If your WTS is not coming on for 5-6 secs then your ECM may not be long for this world.  Also, if you go to replace the APPS then make sure you go with a TIMBOs.  Super easy to replace and set up.  

 

BTW... you're wiring looks great.   Nice connections and lugs.  Your terminals don't look bad either.  I've seen a LOT worse (including mine before replacing the cables and terminals).

 

One other thing, welcome!

I agree I’m sure I’ll be sending it to auto computer specialists in the near future AKA Whenever I can go without my truck for a couple weeksWhenever I can go without my truck for a couple weeks

 

 and thanks I try to take a little bit of extra time, when the military style terminals and lugs get here it will be better

[Max Tune]

Military terminals are sweet. So glad I put them on my truck.

[Stanley]

Glad you got that figured out, what a mess. I see this alot in all the heavy equipment (JD)I work on, atrocious. Welcome to the site.

 

Speaking of lugs, I think I have to much, looks cluttered, on my posts. Been thinking about a buss bar or something to distribute wiring, mainly on drivers side, so it looks cleaner and overall better connection. 

 

I seen some things too that I'm sure you fixed, Great job overall!

 

However your last picture shows a wire piercing connection on the brown to black wire, not a huge fan of those, too many negatives about those and never suggest them. 

[Tractorman]

12 minutes ago, Stanley said:

However your last picture shows a wire piercing connection on the brown to black wire, not a huge fan of those,

 

I agree.  Guaranteed to cause you grief down the road.  The connector damages the wire being connected into (usually breaking one or two strands) and exposes both wires to the elements which allows for further corrosion and high resistance.  These trucks came with enough electrical challenges  - no need to add more.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Might be a good idea and contact @Auto Computer Specialist they do wiring harnesses. I've seen one member show off his rebuilt loom and it was better than factory. Even with the W-T ground mod I'm sure they will work the loom and keep the mod for ya.