boost elbow questions

[Ironforger]

02 3500 6 speed HO. 252k miles.  Still has factory injectors & HX35W turbo, etc. No tuning mods (Yet. Maybe quadzilla and DAP 100hp 7X0.009 VCO injectors in the near future)

 

Anyhow, my questions is this:  I added a boost elbow recently. How much boost gain can I expect by adding a boost elbow? I was getting 22 psi before installing boost elbow. After installing went up to about 24 psi max.   Is that to be expected? Or is there a possibility my waste gate is not fully closing?  Figured I'd get some feedback from you guys before I start taking things apart.

What comes first, chicken or egg? Does the fueling increase relative to boost increase? Or does the boost increase relative to fueling increase?  Is a tuning mod such as quadzilla needed to increase fueling to get more boost?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

3 hours ago, Ironforger said:

Is a tuning mod such as quadzilla needed to increase fueling to get more boost?

 

Timing must retard to push more flame out the exhaust to spin the turbo. More advancement will cause it to burn most of the fuel in the cylinder. Little boost will be made. My current tune I run right at 25* BTDC at 2,000 RPMs which nets me about 2 to 3 PSI of boost at 66 MPH. Now get the timing to drop from crossing my engine load limit of 25% then the timing drops to 17* BTDC and then the boost builds rapidly. 

 

3 hours ago, Ironforger said:

Anyhow, my questions is this:  I added a boost elbow recently. How much boost gain can I expect by adding a boost elbow? I was getting 22 psi before installing boost elbow. After installing went up to about 24 psi max. 

 

Factory injectors should be able to push a good 30 to 35 PSI of boost easy. But if they have more than 100k miles then the injectors are wore out and just not going to perform very well being the pop pressure is low and the spray isn't atomized very well so power is lost. Most of the cheap boost elbows don't really work all that good if it allows too much boost to still leak through to the wastegate. 

 

Some of us got lucky and got a China made boost fooler for about 8 dollars. Mine is a screw together body with a spring and check ball that has to work the pressure up high enough to push the check ball open. Now here is a real boost controller for your wastegate...

 

https://www.genracer.com/grimmspeed-universal-manual-boost-controller-for-mechanical-wastegates/?action=select&sku=GS070002

 

[Doubletrouble]

 That's the first I've seen one of those. Hmmmm

 I need more info, anybody using one of these things?

 Do they just install in the boost hose that goes to the elbow?

[Mopar1973Man]

Yes installs right in the boost hose. Mine is different design. @IBMobile I know has one maybe he can post a picture. I know we got ours off eBay.

[IBMobile]

 

Boost controller opened showing spring with a check ball, unseen. behind it. 

 

Controller mounted on alternator bracket for easy access to change boost setting.

It's adjusted for 30psi max boost pressure with an HX35 turbo.

Edited February 12, 2023 by IBMobile

[Doubletrouble]

 Thanks! I have the 100hp injectors now. I want to get my gauges installed then increase boost. I'll look those up on ebay, I like that they can be adjusted. Most other elbows are either preset or have a tiny set screw that I wouldn't really trust anyway.

 I'm thinking with the injectors the added boost would compliment the extra fuel and maybe gain a bit of power when I'm towing the camper. No tuner here yet. Lol

 

 

 Also, at what rpm do you normally hit you max boost? Curious.......

[Royal Squire]

Don’t you Nepali boost fooler to increase boost?

[Doubletrouble]

 Yes, to avoid throwing an over boost code. I failed to mention I'll have to get a foolproof to avoid that.

 

I also think you would have to remove the oem elbow to get full flow through the hose to make the controller effective. 

[IBMobile]

1 hour ago, Doubletrouble said:

I also think you would have to remove the oem elbow

No need to remove the OEM elbow.  The controller works fine with just a new hose connecting it to the elbow.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Manual-Controller-Install-Repair/dp/B0B5PYG6H3

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by IBMobile

[Ironforger]

On 2/11/2023 at 3:15 PM, Ironforger said:

02 3500 6 speed HO. 252k miles.  Still has factory injectors & HX35W turbo, etc. No tuning mods (Yet. Maybe quadzilla and DAP 100hp 7X0.009 VCO injectors in the near future)

 

Anyhow, my questions is this:  I added a boost elbow recently. How much boost gain can I expect by adding a boost elbow? I was getting 22 psi before installing boost elbow. After installing went up to about 24 psi max.   Is that to be expected? Or is there a possibility my waste gate is not fully closing?  Figured I'd get some feedback from you guys before I start taking things apart.

What comes first, chicken or egg? Does the fueling increase relative to boost increase? Or does the boost increase relative to fueling increase?  Is a tuning mod such as quadzilla needed to increase fueling to get more boost?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

In follow up to my OP:

The reason I could not get above 24psi after installing the boost elbow is because adding the boost elbow was all I did.  Boost fooler is also needed to fool the ecm into thinking  boost psi is not exceeded factory specs, therefore allowing fueling.

I subsequently installed the quadzilla boost fooler, now I can easily hit 30psi no problem.  (fwiw, im at 252k miles running original factory injectors & HX35W turbo).

Boost fooler install was easy plug and play, nice noticeble performance gain with low egt's. 

I purchased my quadzilla boost fooler from DAP:  $67 plus shipping. Fast no-nonsense shipping.  https://www.dieselautopower.com/quadzilla-power-2002-dodge-5-9l-cummins-boost-fooler

So that's all I've done so far regarding performance mods. Next on my list is the Quadzilla Adrenaline with IQUAD & larger injectors.  Hopefully soon

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ironforger

[Doubletrouble]

1 hour ago, Ironforger said:

Next on my list is the Quadzilla Adrenaline with IQUAD & larger injectors.  Hopefully soon

 I would do injectors first and soon. If those are truly OEM factory injectors they're way past their service life. Typically injector life is 100-150k miles.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Doubletrouble

[LorenS]

58 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Typically injector life is 100-150k miles.

I bought my truck with 270k miles or so, and I'm certain they were original injectors. On changing them out they were pressure tested and one would discharge just from the weight of the tester handle! The others just puked fuel, no spray. Reman units all had the FSM pop pressure with a nice pattern.

[Threadzy]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:37 AM, IBMobile said:

 

Boost controller opened showing spring with a check ball, unseen. behind it. 

 

Controller mounted on alternator bracket for easy access to change boost setting.

It's adjusted for 30psi max boost pressure with an HX35 turbo.

Do you have to take that off when it comes smog time? 

[IBMobile]

15 minutes ago, Threadzy said:

Do you have to take that off when it comes smog time?

YES along with my bhaf and the EDGE Easy.  I leave the RV245 injectors in.

[Mopar1973Man]

I could most likely pass a smog test with my DAP +150HP Injectors (7 x 0.010), Quadzilla Adrenaline, and stock HX35W turbo. The way my tune is set up and the fuel table I run there is no smoke. If I wanted to hide the tune I could easily stash it up in the dash and hide most of the wiring. Some of the main reasons I can do this with such big injectors is the fact that other tuners like Edge CTS or Edge EZ do not allow for timing adjustments. Strangely I'm now running upwards of 24 to 25 degrees BTDC at 2,000 RPM which no other tuner can do and burn so cool in EGTs that at my 65 MPH speed I'm right at 550 to 600-degree EGTs with about 2 PSI of boost.  Bonus is having super high MPG's. 

 

That should make you think...

[Threadzy]

I put my stock air filter assembly on when I smog it. My Quad is hidden and passes with it on. My injectors burn clean. My first 10 psi is set at 100% fueling.  Don’t even need to run it on valet, So even if I had to take it off to pass there shouldn’t be an issue. 

[IBMobile]

@Threadzy when was your last test?  

"Beginning July 19, 2021, vehicles identified with illegally modified software will fail Smog Check."

During the Cailfornia smog test the OBD2 is connected to an "interrogating computer" which looks for modified programing in the vehicle's ECM/PCM. 

If your last test was after this date, then the Quad is truly hidden. 

[Threadzy]

It’s due this November so 2021. The Quad intercepts the signal from the ECM. Then changes it to the injection pump. Nothing is changed in the ECM.  If they see it I’ll unplug it. Should still pass the smoke test. They sure have been sending all my vehicles to star only stations. 

[Ironforger]

1 hour ago, IBMobile said:

@Threadzy when was your last test?  

"Beginning July 19, 2021, vehicles identified with illegally modified software will fail Smog Check."

During the Cailfornia smog test the OBD2 is connected to an "interrogating computer" which looks for modified programing in the vehicle's ECM/PCM. 

If your last test was after this date, then the Quad is truly hidden. 

 

Does the Quadzilla Adrenaline plug into the OBD II port?  Just curious.  I'm going to get it eventually,

[Threadzy]

Just now, Ironforger said:

 

Does the Quadzilla Adrenaline plug into the OBD II port?  Just curious.  I'm going to get it eventually,

No. It plugs into the map sensor and the comport in the engine bay. There is a couple more but those are the main two.