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dripley

home to install new ADII

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i leaving OK to head home wednesday. while there i am going to install my new ADII 165. it came with a kit to replace the intank lift pump i have grown to love so much. Has any one here replaced an in tank pump? if so is there anything i should watch out for? the instructions look pretty straight forward but you never know. my try getting it running with the tank on the ground and rehang once it is runnig right. any input would be appreciated.

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I had my AD 150 installed. If you have the pickup in the OEM basket, the AD return must be back to the basket (or the line). If your pickup is outside the basket, the return should be also. The problem is that the basket screen itself is designed around the flow capabilities of the OEM pump. The 150 - 165 pumps several times the flow of the OEM pump... the basket will just not flow that much. At low fuel levels its apparently possible to pump the basket dry & draw air with fuel still in the tank. I found this out when my install was in progress... I had put the system together from parts some used, some new to save money & the mixed parts were going to cause me grief. Hope this helps,Russ

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as i remember the instructions both the pickup and the return go into the basket. since my intank paump was added about 5 years ago i dont know wether the basket has a screen as it came with or when they installed the pump they used the new style basket. i gues i will find out when it comes out.:shrug:

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Does the AD165 not come with the fitting to cut the filler hose and run the return in there? That's how the 150 is. For the fuel pick-up I just found a good place to cut a hole in the top of the tank and put the draw straw in it. It all worked pretty slick.

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I've got the old school draw straw and just got back from Boise, ID where I ran my tank all the way down to 1/16 of tank with a old school draw straw from AirDog 150 with no sucking air problems. :stuned:

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If I had it to do over, when I installed my ad II I would definitely ordered the drawstraw! Actually I ordered one lastnight! Going to be installing it soon! Other than that install is pretty easy!! W

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Does the AD165 not come with the fitting to cut the filler hose and run the return in there? That's how the 150 is. For the fuel pick-up I just found a good place to cut a hole in the top of the tank and put the draw straw in it. It all worked pretty slick.

the AD II utilizes all of the plumbing in the basket. the return line from the pump is installed in the basket also.

it requires drilling a hole and installing a fitting.

--- Update to the previous post...

I've got the old school draw straw and just got back from Boise, ID where I ran my tank all the way down to 1/16 of tank with a old school draw straw from AirDog 150 with no sucking air problems. :stuned:

Posted Image

i have always been able to run my tank dry with no problem befor and after the in tank pamp install. it might be crazy but i have always been one to run my tnak as fas as i can. i have put 35 gallons in my tank at fill on multiple occasions. ran out of fuel twice too:cry:. my fault. thats the only time i have had air sucking problems. i use the odometer as much as the fuel gauge when making trips.

i have got nothing against the draw straw. but if what comes with the AD works good i would just as soon use it. the thought of having to do it twice is stuck in the back of my mind.

do you see a benefit in using the drw straw over the stock fuel basket? does it flow the fuel any better? i might could see a benifit from the return from the pump being away from the fuel pickup.

--- Update to the previous post...

If I had it to do over, when I installed my ad II I would definitely ordered the drawstraw! Actually I ordered one lastnight! Going to be installing it soon! Other than that install is pretty easy!! W

are you having problems with set up? getting fuel to the engine is no problem for me as it is now. if i go as intructed i will just be removing the intank pump and replumbing it plus installing the return line from the pump. just wondering if you see a benifit from the draw straw over using the fuel basket.

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I would have been money ahead if I had ordered a drawstraw... they offer various packages which have the correct matching of input & output (although they do not explain the reason why).

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Unless you need the draw straw for power reasons I would stay away from one. There are many more issues with them than good stories like Mike's. A stock pickup should be plenty for you, the ADII uses an internal regulator and is not pumping 165GPH all the time, unlike the 150/100 GPH units.

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Unless you need the draw straw for power reasons I would stay away from one. There are many more issues with them than good stories like Mike's. A stock pickup should be plenty for you, the ADII uses an internal regulator and is not pumping 165GPH all the time, unlike the 150/100 GPH units.

the only thing in the near futur for me is a set of RV 275s. the the basket should still provide more fuel than i need. i think i will save my money and install in the basket. it has worked good all these years. i dont see why it wont keep on working.

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I installed the fittings that came with my ad II and I had problems with the tube being cracked! I made my own draw tube to use after the problems I had sucking air! Now I'm having problems with 1/4 tank issue that's why I'm going to be installing the drawtube in mine!

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the only thing in the near futur for me is a set of RV 275s. the the basket should still provide more fuel than i need. i think i will save my money and install in the basket. it has worked good all these years. i dont see why it wont keep on working.

You may need to source a non in-tank basket.

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One source of the 1/4 tank issue could be the flow rate of the basket if the return is not in the basket also...

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I installed the fittings that came with my ad II and I had problems with the tube being cracked! I made my own draw tube to use after the problems I had sucking air! Now I'm having problems with 1/4 tank issue that's why I'm going to be installing the drawtube in mine!

did yur fuel basket have a screen at the bottom or was it solid with the rubber flapper? if it was solid did you drill the holes in the side of the basket the instructions call for? i could see that not letting enoudgh fuel in.

--- Update to the previous post...

this gets better with every post:ahhh:. to ds or not to ds, that is the question. i thinking of install the fuel pickup strapped to the outside of the basket instead of the inside. seems to me that would esentially give you the same as a draw straw.

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Based on what I have seen on the forums over the last few years I have zero desire to ever run a draw-straw. At 500 or less rwhp I think the best option is an OEM basket with a doorman to hose fitting on it. Above 500rwhp a modified stock basket!

If you just race/pull and need the unrestricted flow of a drawstraw just plan on never going below 1/4 tank.

Personally I like this the best.

Posted Image

Stock pickup reliability with greatly improved flow.

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Based on what I have seen on the forums over the last few years I have zero desire to ever run a draw-straw. At 500 or less rwhp I think the best option is an OEM basket with a doorman to hose fitting on it. Above 500rwhp a modified stock basket!

If you just race/pull and need the unrestricted flow of a drawstraw just plan on never going below 1/4 tank.

Personally I like this the best.

Posted Image

Stock pickup reliability with greatly improved flow.

is there a screen in the bottom of the basket or holes to let the fuel in?

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I believe that one is still stock. Return flow should be plenty to keep it full, in addition to the screen. Lets look at how much fuel a stock motor can burn. Since I know the specs lets use my 325hp 05 motor. At WOT and rated rpm (2900) it uses 132 mm^3 per injection. That's 87000 injections in an hour, or 30.3 GPH. So lets say it's linear (for arguments sake) and thats .093 GPH^2 (Gallons per horespower per hour), so a 400 rwhp rig would burn 37.3 GPH, so even with a 100 GPH pump your putting nearly 63% of the fuel back to the tank at WOT.. plenty to keep the psi up and the basket full.Hi flow pumps aren't needed for their max flow, but to maintain the set psi across a broader range of flow. An internally regulated pump shouldn't have more than a 1-2 psi drop from idle to WOT, unless your motor is using all the fuel the pump can push at that psi. Remember a 165 GPH ADII flows 165 GPH at 0psi, and less as the pressure goes up.

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I'm thinking of getting the ADII and the guy at diesel performance products suggested using the kit that comes with the pump and not a draw straw. My question is what is involved with the install (in the tank). Also how do you know if there is an in tank pump or not?

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If you have a pump by the block it would be by the fuel filter cannister. Or bump the starter and listen for the noise of the pump running. That would tell you where the pump is at!

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If you have a pump by the block it would be by the fuel filter cannister. Or bump the starter and listen for the noise of the pump running. That would tell you where the pump is at!

So its one or the other, not both?

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Moostang, I doubt you would have both an in-tank pump & a block-mounted pump. The dealer fix for a failed block-mounted pump was to install a new module in the fuel tank that had the in-tank pump. From all accounts it was an unsatisfactory fix. I'm inside my tank right now to fix a leak at the top of the in tank fuel module (http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/4049-Fixing-Fuel-Tank-Leak). My truck is a '99 like yours, and the module is much different than the one pictured earlier in this thread. I have taken some pictures but I haven't had a chance to download them from my camera - try to get that done soon. I have ordered a Draw Straw 1 as recommended by Vulcan Performance along with a big line kit (3/8"). Last fall I replaced the OEM Carter fuel pump with an Airtex unit, mounting it in the OEM location. With the big line kit comes all the hardware & electrical harness to move the mounting location of my Airtex down onto the frame next to the tank. The Draw Straw 1 will plug into the top of the existing tank module, keeping the fuel pick-up & return in the basket. Expecting delivery of the parts late on Friday. I'll update the Fixing the Fuel Tank Leak thread in the next couple days. Joe in St Louis

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So its one or the other, not both?

that is correct. though i installed another pump on the frame rail when i found out how low a pressure the in tank put out.

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satrted my install today. got the tank out, rebuilt the basket, reassembled the tank and it is ready to install. the intank pump is about double the size of a D cell battery. i know size aint every thing but it sure aint impressive, especially when compared to the AD. ther were 2 wires for power to the pump. they were connected with push on connecters. nothing in the instructions dealt with those wires so i just cut them off near the top on the basket where they could not short to anything or each other. they come from a relay mounted on the dash, drivers side. 2 other wire go to the ecm connector near the old pump location. a single wire fused to the battery. there is one more wire (O/R) that goes into the conduit along the frame rail towards the old pump location. if any one knows what that one is please let me know. i am hoping i can get rid of that relay. it looks like it was installed with the intank pump. looks like th new relay and harnes will take care of everything but that O/R. i will have to chase that down tomorrow. got everything else off and hopefully get it all back together tommorow helping hands are a little sparse right now. i took some pix and will post them later.

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i got the ad installed and working today. the fuel basket i have is just like the one in AH64ID's photo, except mine did not have the fancy fittings at the top. i just reused the ones molded into the top. I connected everything back in the basket utilizing AD's kit. when i tried to bleed the system of air i got a good stream of fuel for 2 seconds and then got alot fuel air mix. i cycled the pump several times with the same results. i connected to the vp and tried to start the engine with no luck. could not get any fuel to the injectors. thats when i realized i had not installed one of the spring clamps on the fuel pick up properly:doh:. went back to one of my photos and it confirmed what i thought.figued it was sucking air. i had to take the fuel tank back off and install it properly. got it all back together, then it started raining and i had to wait until today to finish. i reinstalled the tank and connected every thing this morning and had the same problem while bleeding. figured i had around 5 or 6 gallons of fuel in the tank. but went and got 8 more just to see what happened. put 4 gallons inthe tank and got a good stream for about 5 or 6 seconds and mor fuel air mix. i put 4 more gallons in and got a steady stream of fuel. i reconnected to the vp and the engines statred on the second attempt. enough about the trials and tribulations of the install, a couple questions for you guys #1 with the ad pumpimg straight into a fuel can does it return any fuel to the tank? thought that could be a source for the air since possibly nothing is going back into the basket. #2 how much fuel does the engine return to the basket? this is another source for air since it returns no fuel if the engine is not running. i have got this 1/4 tank thing in my head and worrying that is my problem. i guess i'll just put a 5gallon can of diesel in the bed and drive and see what happens. i appreciate all of yalls input.

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I don't have an Air Dog but I've studied it and all the tank pick-up stuff lately. I'll give your questions a try.

#1 with the ad pumpimg straight into a fuel can does it return any fuel to the tank? thought that could be a source for the air since possibly nothing is going back into the basket.

Not sure. There probably is some going back, but certainly not the full flow of the AD pump. if you dead-headed the flow out of the hose into the can, all the fuel the AD is pumping would return to the tank. What ever amount was coming out of your hose into the fuel can was having to be supplied by the tank through the basket. If the AD return is through a tee installed into the filler neck line, it may take some time for the fuel to get back to the basket. With a low tank it could lead to pump cavitation.

#2 how much fuel does the engine return to the basket? this is another source for air since it returns no fuel if the engine is not running.

If the engine is not running while the AD is pumping, a small portion of the flow is returning from the engine. If the engine is running there is a significant flow returning from the engine. MoparMan has a video of it here (http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/fuel-pressure/fuel-pressure.htm).

Since the AD is a positive displacement pump, it has to go somewhere; either to the VP or back to the tank from the AD return through the filler neck tee. The flow to the VP either gets sent to the injectors or back to the tank.

Hope this helps,

Joe in St Louis

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