Anybody Really Know the Answer

[Mopar1973Man]

But the funny part is cooling the upper part does no good being there is plastic and air gap between the electronics... The back side is aluminum and dump heat into the fuel.So I understand why BlueChip was thinking run the lift pump after the truck is shut down would actually cool it down but the fact is the VP44 doesn't flow much fuel unless its turning...

[ISX]

The only thing that brings me back to a dead end is that the engine stays hot for hours on end. When his pump was 150F that was up to 3 hours after the truck had been shut down. It takes a few minutes to bring that pump back to ambient temps (or close) when you start it back up. Unless the fuel pump pulsates a little for hourrrss with a pulsation duration of maybe 10 seconds every minute, then I don't see it working. The chip gets the heat from somewhere, if the pump is cool then the chip will be cool as well, you don't have to directly cool the chip you just have to get rid of the heat sources that influence it. There are hundreds of solutions but none of them challenge a truck in a remote location that needs pump cooling until the engine is cool (several hours). It is also hard to cool something that is connected to the engine block therefore continues to get heat soaked. The best thing to do would be to circulate the fuel at a constant rate maybe 1gpm, and cool the fuel, though while driving the pump is always close to ambient so the fuel tank must radiate the heat pretty good. From another viewpoint, I don't see why they can't just make the pump more heat resistant. There are many what if's involved with this pump, and so far everyone has just been trying to mask the problem by trying to cool it or something. I don't see why we can't eliminate the what if.. What if my truck runs out of fuel? Oh I can eliminate it by topping it off... There are distinct differences between fixes and solutions.

[jlwelding]

Ok you yall know it's coming so here it is. P-PUMP IT

[dripley]

i think i am just going to let my vp bask in its warmth for now. i need the cash for other things.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok you yall know it's coming so here it is. P-PUMP IT

I always love that really expensive solution... Requires removal of the cam to change the gear case, new lift pump for higher fuel pressure or change the cam so you can use the mechanical lift pump, re-pop all the injectors for fit the P-pump, re-create throttle linkage for the p-pump, order a modified set of lines, the p-pump of course... But the time your done your looking at at least 2 days and right around $3000 roughly. Heck I could always buy a CR engine and spend that kind of money of injectors...

[dually]

I think most of the people figure a grand and 5 hrs with a chance of it not lasting. If i had the cash i would do it.

[dripley]

cant i buy a set of rv275's for about the price of a CR injector, maybe 2?

[ISX]

John researched the Ppump idea and came to the conclusion that after selling everything off of your 24V for the swap, you pretty well end up breaking even or spending only up to $500 on stuff. CR injectors are another thing, they are expensive, but it's what the emissions standards require and it's a bad part on dodge to put crappy fuel filters in. I know the diesel here is like a muddy river in comparison to the sparkling creek diesel they have in europe, I wonder if they have any injector issues over there. Dorkweed never has any issues so I'm sure he could care less about the price of the injectors. If my P7100 goes out, I'm looking at $2000. Just because the cost is there doesn't mean it is going to have to be paid for. Dorkweed is having great luck with his as far as I know and I doubt he would go back to a VP truck. Same with Wild and Free. Injector issue on CR, VP on VP44 trucks...same thing to me and injectors are easier to change. You lose a lot of fancy functionality with the P pump replaced instead with reliability. I still just see it as dodge doing their homework with the ppump and skipping some worksheets with the VP and CR trucks, they shoulda known to do something to make the VP reliable same with the CR, but we know how to resolve the issue with fuel pumps and fuel filters and then you have a truck that is just as reliable as a Ppump. I hear a lot about plungers sticking in the ppumps but it isn't advertised as much for some reason, keeping the good rap of the ppump. One VP goes down and the whole world knows about it. Personally, I loved John's truck. I liked how it drove and felt, though the response and feel of the engine was completely different than my ppumper. You would lose all of that if you ppumped the truck. I don't know if one is better than the other but his sure seemed a lot more cadillac. Being me, I like to tear into things and figure it out, I like knowing I don't have any obstacles and lets face it, the VP44 is not something you can just tear into, I can get into the ppump and put it back together easily enough with the right tools but the VP44 is not garage mechanic friendly. I also don't like how problems can be generated just from a computer (ECM). If my truck is running weird, its obviously something mechanical, if a 24V runs weird, it's something mechanical or electronic and unless you memorized all the codes and got a code reader, you might be sitting on the side of the road helplessly. I could probably fix any issue on my truck with just a pair of vise grips. Where am I going with this. What I am saying is you guys cant say because of one issue like the VP having issues, that that issue is enough to sell the whole truck. Fix the pump, get a raptor, get 2 stroke in it, get a fuel pressure gauge, problem solved. Might sound a little taxing to be messing with 2 stroke all the time but there is a price you gotta pay to have fancy features and lots of power among other things. Plus it only takes 30 seconds out of your day. Hmm, back on CR engines, they are harder to work on obviously, but I am beginning to think that is only because of the new stuff we have never seen. Looking at engines of the past, we see an incredibly simple design. I was at a car show last weekend that had all the hemi cudas and 427 cobras and tons of those camaro SS's, and they also had model A's and even a steam engine. The older you got, the less wires I saw, less hoses I saw, less stuff in the way of repairing them I saw... Now take a mechanic from back then and show him even a 1st gen 12V, he would say it was impossible to work on and everything else that we say about the latest trucks. I think the problem is that we haven't spread around enough of the ways at going about fixing things. Back then it was pretty obvious how to take things apart, nowadays they have a sequence, knowing the sequence is key, even on my truck things have a sequence that will bite you in the rear if you don't go in order. Now taking off the cab on these powerstrokes does seem like a chore, but once you figure out the right way to take it off, you are left with a chassis with the engine completely exposed, it would be the best thing to work on ever because you dont have the firewall and fenders always making things difficult. I do think they could just make the entire body of the front end from the firewall forward just flip up and open like on semi trucks. They have just as much crap as these new engines yet they are entirely serviceable.

[Dave3500]

Wow, all this because of heat. did have some hot start issues during the 95degree heat here so I could imagine what would happen w an entire Summer of 100+ heat & no rain! Yikees!Hangin w/ my factory original 191K 13 yr old pump! I'll take some issues as we try to nurse her along!DaveI need to update my sig. I do now have a raptor 100 w/ a fp & trans temp gauges. Seems to run better!

[dripley]

very well said ISX.from my viewpoint i like ot keep what i have because i have grown used to it and know it retty well. if it breaks i ususally know what needs to be done. my dodge is a little differant because i am still learning about it. but if it breaks i can figure out or use the resources here to help me figure it out. thru the years i have had many vehicles, usually purchased with 100k + for very little cash and mostly would get another 100k out them. they were simpler then but i got to know them and there idiosyncracies. with that, a little cash and care i have not spent alot of money on vehicles. i have had the dodge longer than any other vehicle i have had. i even got to put the first 110k on this one. so i will just keep learning about it and driving it. i might not hit that 1 million mile mark, but if i drive it for 15 or 20 years that would be just as big a deal as the million the cajflynn got out of his. the fuel system on mine will stay the same mainly because i know it and can fix any thing that breaks. i realy dont want to put something on it that i have to learn again. why swap one set of problems for another set. keep it as simple as you can. thats how i feel.

[Rogan]

Ok you yall know it's coming so here it is. P-PUMP IT

What if... One was to use a thermoswitch - one similar to what is used for electric cooling fans - to trigger a cyclic pump, or trigger the fp to turn on. There are several of these switches on the market that are user-settable. You could diode-wire it in with a relay (NC 87A leg) to be active only when IGN is off. Tag the fuel line at the IP to sample temps and activate one preset temp, deactivate on preset shutoff. Many european cars do this with coolant (Saab, BMW, Audi, etc.) Heck, my '90 525i does it with the coolant.

[Mopar1973Man]

What if... One was to use a thermoswitch - one similar to what is used for electric cooling fans - to trigger a cyclic pump, or trigger the fp to turn on. There are several of these switches on the market that are user-settable. You could diode-wire it in with a relay (NC 87A leg) to be active only when IGN is off. Tag the fuel line at the IP to sample temps and activate one preset temp, deactivate on preset shutoff. Many european cars do this with coolant (Saab, BMW, Audi, etc.) Heck, my '90 525i does it with the coolant.

Problem... No flow and it might run the batteries dead trying to cool it...

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YREpPrMxkHU

(Fast forward too 1:25 and see the return flow)

[Rogan]

Didn't say it was a solution;) just brainstorming...Sent from my rooted EVO's tiny keyboard with my opposable thumbs...

[ISX]

Alright you'll have to pardon my ignorance of how the VP44 works but on mine all there is, is an overflow valve which opens when the spring pressure is overcome. Now in his video, I think it is the same principle, but is the flow regulated by the components in the pump or by the overflow valve? If it is just the overflow valve, then I think I have a solution. Build a T in which the return goes into one port, the overflow valve goes into a different port, which would be the same as it is now if the 3rd port were plugged, but instead, put a solenoid valve in the 3rd port. When the engine is off you can have a programmer pulsate the fuel pump and each time it energizes the pump, it also energizes the solenoid, so you have wide open flow. For some reason I am thinking the VP44 restricts it in another way, though this would work on a P7100. You really wouldn't even need a decent pump for this since you would have a wide open valve and all you would need was some flow, very little pressure. I would get a deep cycle battery and put a relay on it to connect it to the other batteries only when the key is on, that way when the alternator isn't running it would be isolated from draining the other batteries. That would be the fuel pump battery. Question all comes down to what would happen if there was no overflow valve in the VP, would it free flow or would it still be the same low pathetic flow. If it is the same low flow, I wonder if it would be possible to make it work having a little crappy pump and free flowing fuel system, that is if it even is free flowing without the overflow, another thing I need to figure out.

[Mopar1973Man]

It's the internal parts of the VP44 that restricts the flow without the VP44 turning the flow is extremely limited...

[ISX]

It's the internal parts of the VP44 that restricts the flow without the VP44 turning the flow is extremely limited...

What happens when the pump is turning that allows it to flow more? I guess I don't see how it can limit everything since that would mean intense pressure could be built and not be able to be relieved very quickly. I know the raptor has it's own regulator but did the stock lift pump have one as well? Will those pumps even build a lot of pressure? If you plug the line on my lift pump it will just keep going till something blows but I know thats a mechanical feature that I doubt the electric lift pumps will do.