College GradS, Debt, 50% Can't get a Jobs..............

[JAG1]

What's your thoughts?Why are they so stuck on finding a job? Why can't they start a business of their own in their field? I found it hard to deal with a boss and started my own in 81. It seems the money is where the work is and a lot of the college grads think too much in terms of getting a cushy office job. Why don't they think in terms of doing things that require a little more physical labor? Seems like all the people I know that are willing to work are doing well and they started out small in business and worked their reputation/ quality up the scales.I get hard hard jobs from time to time but, find that folks are willing to compensate me more for doing them. In fact, I can make some good money doing the things no one else is willing to do. The bigger the challenge the more I can make.Anyhow, one last thought..... there is real labor everywhere in this world... is it just that government controls make it too hard to start a business now a days?

[flagmanruss]

Part of the problem is that many students were misled to take on debt they will take their lifetime to pay off. I see women who worked their way through dental hygentist school as a waitress & in less than a year are back waitressing (or some never comletely left) because the waitressing pays better.College is not for everyone. Skilled trades... for the bright & industrious... can be a better path.I have a college degree in business but was happier as a hands on manager... getting my own hands dirty... A young realitive floundered in college... came home & got into HVAC, employer sent to tech college. He's showed real tallent & has gone out to partner with another estabished realitive in the business. With so many experienced workers still out of work, my state is 11.1%, only exceptional grads will get jobs and the economy has not turned around. Many store fronts... whole strip malls, one store occupied, some being torn down to avoid taxes. Rhode Island is known as "The Ocean State". What I see is a bunch of houses with boats on trailers or boats that where paid boat movers brought them home 3 years ago to avoid fees... and they are still here. The's a 28' sloop (Auxillary sail boat) on my street and we're 40 miles from the coast. Sorry to sound pessimistic... we have sunk so low that IF this is a turn around...

[ebbtide357]

government is the problem :evilgrin:the american dream is sadly slowley disappearing to overseas labor and technologly im fine as far as everything goes but i worry for our children its time to put tariffs back on some of these imports before its to late i had a very sucessful buisness in the womens garment center until NAFTA was put in place wiped out thousands of jobs up here people need to start looking at where the product there buying is made its a very tough thing to do but i do as much as i can time to start tightening up the borders before its to late might be already considering china owns this country :banghead:

[Mopar1973Man]

I could tell a heck of a story about my College Degree and before I left California. But it would do no good the trade I went to College for is no longer valid I paid over $55,000 for and times have changed. I basically hold a worthless degree now. :banghead:What degree do I have? Bachelor Electronic Science... When I went to school the first 8088 IBM processor where just coming out and transistor electronics where still very popular IC chips where just starting out too. The 8088 processor is long gone.So all my knowledge now is self taught taking time every day to keep studying on Computers, Software, Hardware, Networking, Web Design, Cummins Diesel, Mopar Engines, etc. I don't hold a degree in anything modern today but what good would it do being next year it will be obsolete again.

[CSM]

Its tough out there... kids have been told to get degrees, and then a job. They haven't found jobs "in their field" but there aren't many. They should know better than getting a worthless degree but some still do. I've been fortunate I was able to get a job in oil and gas, but its been a lot of hard work. Most don't want to work hard but there aren't many nine to five jobs that pay well and most don't understand why they aren't entitled to such a job.Life ain't easy. Times suck. We are in bad national debt. Work hard and be a good hand is what I tell my new guys.

[JAG1]

Business is a tough environment today. We are paying 7500 bucks just for permits and engineering in order to put up one new building in a business park. You would not believe the litany of issues and mouse maze of obstacles, just plain ridiculous hoops that must jump thru to get a building permit.Here is the amazing thing of it too......... on both sides of us there are 4 brand new buildings all completed, 3 for sale and one for lease. All are empty, almost like a ghost town around there.I do think these kids need to think about starting their own business. I'm sure it's harder now but, need to at least think more that direction.

[Mopar1973Man]

I do think these kids need to think about starting their own business. I'm sure it's harder now but, need to at least think more that direction.

As far as empty buildings. I can go to New Meadows, ID proper and get pictures of a brand new building that be vacant since the start. I can show you lots of empty shops and empty lots that the owners dozed the building to save on property taxes. Starting you own business... Well your right its tough to do that but very rewarding. Like business I started in 2002 and let it die in about 2009 was Cloud 10 Computers where I built custom computers for the locals and maintained them as well. Times went on I could see the handwriting on the wall and shifted gears toward web design and management and now continue on... So having your own business you got to be watching the trends and being aware of what the local economy can afford. Like since there is no one around locally for Air Conditioning I do that all summer long for vehicles. Then towards the late summer and fall I get into selling firewood for the locals. So I'm a man of many hats but always find a way to put a bit of money in my pockets. My pockets are not deep by any means but I'm holding my own...

[CSM]

As far as empty buildings. I can go to New Meadows, ID proper and get pictures of a brand new building that be vacant since the start. I can show you lots of empty shops and empty lots that the owners dozed the building to save on property taxes. Starting you own business... Well your right its tough to do that but very rewarding. Like business I started in 2002 and let it die in about 2009 was Cloud 10 Computers where I built custom computers for the locals and maintained them as well. Times went on I could see the handwriting on the wall and shifted gears toward web design and management and now continue on... So having your own business you got to be watching the trends and being aware of what the local economy can afford. Like since there is no one around locally for Air Conditioning I do that all summer long for vehicles. Then towards the late summer and fall I get into selling firewood for the locals. So I'm a man of many hats but always find a way to put a bit of money in my pockets. My pockets are not deep by any means but I'm holding my own...

Resourcefulness is something I noticed in my 2 lane trek through Montana this week. The locals aren't rich, but they get it done, and were very nice. Gave me some hope for America. I would love to live in Montana, but being an outsider, it really would not work unless we start drilling in MT like they do in Canada or ND. Small business is hard, many times in the areas I travel through, even the old established business is running lean and smart. The only near sure opportunities I see for new entries into the workforce is the Eagle Ford, Bakken, and niobrara. Even then, its still only a matter of time until things cause the world energy biz to bust again... then we can kill one of Tue last industries that makes money for us, by our sweat, will have a massive downsizing.

[hex0rz]

I will start off by saying this:I'm 23 going on 24. When I graduated high school, I dismissed college. My outlook on it was that it was only going to bring me trouble. If I had gone to college, at the time I would have chosen Automotive collision and refinishing. I did it for 2 years in high school. Block class which allowed half of my school days to be learning the trade.Once I saw how much it would put me in debt in college to get all the tools necessary to go through the class, I was turned off by it and did not want to go that route. So I went to the local ITT tech college to see about getting into Drafting and Design. The recruiter did his whole shpiel, but the meat of the visit was at the end. When he finally got to talking about how much it would cost in tuition I was not gonna have it. 80k for 2 years I think it was. They had high standards and if you did not meet them, you forfeited your education and they still took all the money.So I started looking in the paper for jobs. I ran across one talking about painting. I thought it was painting vehicles. Unbeknownst to me, the guy on the other end of the phone was a union representative. Ironically, he even came to the school where I did my auto body education and did a presentation trying to recruit us into construction.We got to talking and he eventually figured out who I was. I made an appointment with him and we met a few days later. I was not too hot on getting into construction as a painter or drywaller. He asked if I would ever consider being a glazier. He had to explain to me what a glazier was. I thought about it and figured heck, why not. So, I put my 2 weeks in at Mcdonalds and went into construction as a glazier.I started doing this glazing thing and my peers were still 3 months away from graduating high school. I put myself on a contract and did the fast-track graduation. I stayed in the trade for a year and a half. The original job I worked on starting out in glazing was a year long. I worked hard, proved myself and earned the respect of journeymen. In some cases, I impressed the foreman so much he thought more of me than some of the journeymen.After the project finished, I went back home and took 3 months off. Got on with a local union glass shop and worked for them for 9 months. They were not doing good and we got word that it would not be very long until they would close their doors. So I left before I could feel the sting of unemployment.Then, I pursued that entrepreneurial opportunity that you speak of. I got on with a company that covered life insurance, retirement, refinancing mortgages and investments. I jumped through so many hoops and sacrificed alot of time to get into it. The biggest thing was to get my life insurance license. I got my license and then the company would consider hiring you. They did a background check and found that I had a troubled past. So they rejected me. It was a very disappointing time...So, once that jabbed me in the gut, I was left right in the middle of this current mess. Right at the height of the recession. I'm very good at managing my money. I had around 4-6k saved up and lived off of that while staying with my parents. Then I started going back and forth in the meantime playing chase with my Wife which was my girlfriend at the time. I managed to live off that much money and earning my keep doing small stuff for about 1 1/2 years. Then things started to seem a little brighter. So I looked for a job here in ID in manufacturing. I got married to my lady and moved up to ID. Got my job in manufacturing and was happy as a clam.3 1/2 months down the road, they lay me off. Big downer... So back to the soup line I went. Tried to do one of those temp agency things. They got me a job working in the sawmill. I worked that for 3 weeks and was not even willing to let it go longer. It was too dangerous for my taste. People would not pay attention to what they were doing and even injured me at one point. I said to heck with it! I quit that job. The temp agency had another position that I could take but I was fed up with their lies as well.By quitting I lost my unemployment. So 2 months go by and another local manufacturer was hiring. Unskilled labor making bio-medical electrodes. Me and the wife applied and got a job there. I worked there for 9 months, and then they canned me. My wife was fortunate enough to keep hers. She just recently quit after working there for 18 months.I started my volunteer firefighting program January of 2011. I received the proper training and still to this day 'am a volunteer firefighter. Its going on a year and a half now as a volunteer and I have received alot of training and have become certified for many things. If I were to continue to do so, I could have enough credits for an Associates degree in fire science. There are still many things to be done to get it, but I really have not had to do a whole lot to obtain these college worthy credits.I should be starting my new job here in mid-July as a glazier again. Construction has picked up a little bit in the area. It would mean that I would have to stop being a volunteer firefighter for this department, but there are plenty others around. This glazing job is supposed to last about a year. They have more work lined up after, but you never know how it goes. The co-owner of the company is looking for a person of my stature to take over his job, but he has not found someone he can train.The moral of the story:I have done what I could and deemed fit to make sure that I had my bills and expenses paid. To never place a burden on someone that should not have it for my sake. I have always tried my best to pull my weight. I may have not been the over-achiever, but I still have something to speak for. I took the slow times as a way to just stop, slow down and try and enjoy life.When I could, I would jump on those opportunities to make money. I sold firewood for a while to pay bills, and so did every cat and dog in this area. In fact, I had so much success with it, I'm still keeping it in mind for a form of supplemental income.I did not bat an eye at college much. I looked at going into the Avista Lineman school. At the time it was a 10k tuition fee and was 3-4 months long. Placement as an apprentice in the trade was said to be 100% if you were willing to do it anywhere in the country.I stopped pursuing that one after seeing what electricity can do... :ahhh:So, with my future glazing prospect, I may end up running part of a glass company one day. If not, the construction goes bust, then I have a fallback in the fire service. I will continue to keep my training up and strive to better myself with more certs. If I need to, I will go to college to become a paramedic. It would be a bigger return for me despite it being college.If that don't work, I'll go into wildland firefighting. If that don't work, I suppose I will just sell myself on the corner! :lmao:One way or another, I'm not gonna let this situation get me down... The way I look at it is that if more people my age become lazy degenerates, the more opportunities I have to get a high-profile position in something. The sky is the limit!!!

[ISX]

Where do I begin. When I was 15 I got a job at a steel shop racking steel and sweeping the entire place, sold steel to customers, worked in the machine shop there as an apprentice. After 3 years of that I ended up getting a factory job along with it. So from 7AM to 12PM or later sometimes, I was working. That kinda sucked since I had no free time so I quit the steel place job and stayed at the factory doing temp jobs all over the place. I ended up quiting that job and helping a guy run his car wash for a summer since he washed cars by hand. That wasn't really a paying job though so I got another job working construction. We built a Toyota dealership. Well that sucked even more because everyone there complained and there were more supervisors than workers so I ditched that place in short order. By that time, college started. I went to tech school to be an electrician and took an elective summer thing to also be a generator tech. When I got out of school, there was nothing. I couldn't find a job anywhere. Finally got one working on cell phone towers. We would go to the tower and change out the antennas from 3G to 4G. Well one of the foreman made it a point to do nothing but threaten me if I ever screwed up, even though it was apparent that I was the best "greenhorn" they had ever had. That really ticked me off because in the 6 weeks I worked for them, which was 6 weeks of being out in the field with them 24/7, there was just so much BS. The other foreman who I rode with in the company truck had anger management issues and would throw the entire CB unit at the windshield as hard as he could. Yeahhh I quit that place and started looking again, even though the per diem was getting me over $1000 a week, even after hotel costs and stuff. I have "job happiness" prioritized way over money though so quitting was a no brainer to me. I searched some more and finally got a job as an electrician. There was a lot of things in the electrician world that I hadn't seen but I quickly caught on and eventually could bend conduit better than any of the 20 people there. Today I would consider myself a master of the art. At this job they put everyone in pairs, so it was me and this other guy who had been an electrician for 20 years. He was going to quit the place until I came along and rejuvenated his interest because he couldn't bend conduit very good and when I showed him it could be done, he really got interested in it and continues to ask me questions to this day. But, he was a jerk. He would claim all of my conduit skills were the product of his own and make other false claims. It got to the point where he was so jealous that he would tell me my calculations were wrong after just glancing at my calculations. I thought that was absolute BS. We had been working in the same factory I had worked at before and this welder crew was there and they were a brand new company. The owner of the company had been taking notice of me (I actually thought he was coming on to me because he was always looking at me) and finally he came over to me while I was away from my coworkers (I thought he was gonna propose lmao) and asked if I wanted to work for him. Since I hated working with the jealous guy, I said what I great idea!It's been maybe a year now of working with this guy and he keeps expanding the company and is trying to get into boiler work at refineries and stuff. I have become a standalone electrician for him which is verrrrry nice. I learn more this way because I have nobody to go to when I have questions, so I have to find the answers myself and end up learning more that way. However, we still do a lot of work at that same factory and I find we are constantly just fixing someone else's crappy work. It wouldn't be so bad if the guy who we hired to fix the crappy work wasn't the guy who did the original crappy work.. I see so much jerry rigging and it drives me insane. I don't understand why something can't be done right the first time. This "rage" I guess you could call it, has been growing over the last year and it has ticked me off so much that I decided to go back to college at a university and become a mechanical engineer and possibly go on to aerospace. I want to be the one who designs stuff that ISN'T a rigged up thing destined to fail. I don't understand why everything has a tolerance for screw up, why can't it be exactly right? I know there are time constraints and stuff, but I can make my conduit exactly right faster than most people can bend their screwed up conduit that they have to beat the crap out of to make fit. So I think any "job" could be easily turned into precision work. As for starting my own company.... I don't know how, or I would. I hate the way the one I am at is ran since we have like 75% overhead and new trucks for all the salesmen yet the actual workers take the hit since we don't have enough of a lot of things. I have already made a flow chart for a "successful company" and developed a motto. I know some guys who would work for me and told me they would as well. I guess after all I have seen I have become very outgoing and will tell people exactly what I think. The boss knows this and when he wants something done right, he sends me out and me only. I had some kid helping me but someone in the company didn't like him and so they laid him off, more BS that makes me want my own company. One problem for me is I get bored with something once I know the majority of things about it. Maybe you guys notice I don't really post articles about my truck anymore.. I have gone through the entire thing and now it's to the point where I cannot "research" it anymore without spending a lot of money, which I don't have since I want to go to college again. After college, it would be great to tackle my truck again knowing what I will know afterwards and be able to get that damn thing over 30mpg. So that's my boring life story.

[JOHNFAK]

Its amazing what age and perspective do your your thought process.Anyway - I just think its a bit sad for current generation what they are walking into. The world has changed - at least for the next 5-10 years. If your in the wrong field and dont have specific skills - your doomed to the choice of manual labor that you cant support a family on - or to go start your own business. Thats not a great option for a lot of people.Its become not what you know but who you know.As for being lazy - dont know - I know my parents called "us" lazy. We probably were and they were probably lazy to their parents. More options and more education meant you didnt want to settle for what was done before. Can appear lazy. Eventually I worked out to support my family and do what I wanted I HAD to work. So now I generally work as hard as I can an keep my skills current.Just seems different for different people. I was lucky what I fell into turned out to be in demand. Even now. I know PLENTY of hard working people young and old that cant find work due to this corruption in leadership and business that shows no sign of abating.

[JAG1]

I give a very high value to what everyone is saying here. It's real and not a bunch of Television stories. I want my son in law to read this thread. He's a 30 year old body builder, staying with us till they get back on their feet. I spent some time finding out who's hiring entry level jobs in the oil fields, provides transportation and a place to stay . I came to find out, about a week has past, that he has not applied yet. Now that really bugs me. In my day I would have dropped everything else in order to get through to that company.

[flagmanruss]

I think a lot of folks are forced "home" to conserve funds... not necessarily a bad thing... but that is no excuse for not putting oneself out there. Just about every job adds to one's knowledge... if only that they don't like that kind of work. That should be an insiration to do better. In wealthier times, one might have been able to wait out poor prospects. I just don't think that applies now. In my view... there must be work that can be done to help the person they are living with... there are part time jobs... odd jobs... even volunteering (in such a way that it increases one's contacts, improves or updates skills)... It is all too easy to slide into nothingness.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

one problem i find is inflation keeps going up but the raises are meager. last year i got a 3% raise which equates to .85 cents. how is that able to keep up with increase of taxes, cost of living etc etc...the system needs an overhaul with all these companies skimping on everything just to make a measly few BILLION dollars in profits while the working man in the company is scraping by...

[hex0rz]

This is a double-edged sword we are riding on here. We need to understand both sides before we can get an idea of what is really going on.

Firstly, people of my generation, we have one side that has gone to college to make something of themselves. They get out of college hoping to use these skills they have put so much time into learning. They are in debt before they are even able to rent a car. Job placement is very low as the economy is just not sustaining to allow a new workforce to enter. They now owe on this debt, that they cannot even begin to pay on since they put most of their time into college. The jobs, if they had it, were back in college town, not back at home with their parents where they are now staying.

Secondly, we have people of my generation on the other side that did not go to college. Some of them thought about it differently and did not want college because of whatever reason. My reason was the burden of debt. Some look at it think its for suckers, or just don't want to handle the stress, etc. Some of them are even ones that did not continue on to do better and just slacked off and now they have slumped into an even worse position than before they graduated high school.

Both parties, are now in the same playing field. They both are stuck having to clambor for the same position. Neither of them are going to possess the skills that will put one another above the other. The degree the graduate got means nothing to this new job they are fighting to get. Unless the exception is made that they went to college and the other did not. It means nothing now, to go to college once again and pursue education in the field they are trying to be employed in.

We are not only seeing this with people in my generation, but older people as well. My auto body teacher in high school lost his job as a teacher when the economy was tanking. His brother and him had a family business on the side, so he was able to fall back on that. Now, they both run a military surplus type of general store. This is his full time job. Granted it does not allow him to buy the t-bone steaks every week like he was once used to having, but he is still making a living. Although, he stated that he is in the same position just as I was then. The playing field has evened out.

My generation has been stunted. The majority are not living on their own any longer. We are having to go back home to our parents to stay afloat for a few different reasons:

1. College grad, no money, needs to find work, but no work to be had.

2. Notorious victim of lay-offs, cannot stay afloat with limited income.

3. Not enough with the existing work to even pay bills. Needs to risk pool.

4. Just plain lazy, does not care, moocher.

Now, I have been on unemployment longe than I have ever wanted. There is an aspect to being on unemployment for those who get it. This also comes into play for those said people who are living with family, friends. Their is a deep psychological that takes place. When you add up all the doom and gloom the world is spitting out, coupled with the unsuccessful job placement and the stress of having to be a provider, you lose hope.

Despite having unemployment, knowing that it is not enough and you are only going to have it so long, or for those who do not get it, but others have agreed to give them a free ride, complacency kicks in. Let these people go on for a few months, they get used to it and become comfortable with it.

The idea that if you go to manual labor, you will not make enough to make a living anymore. That is somewhat true. I have done nothing but the manual labor for my work history. I have been on both sides of the field in the manual labor and can say that in the areas where you have to be skilled in something, it will pay higher. In the areas such as the manufacturing, it definitely pays less!

But overall, I disagree that manual labor is OUT. If everyone goes into a field requiring to be a desk/office man or paper pusher of some sort, there will be an offset. The demand for manual labor will increase and become more "high-profile."

This construction job I will be getting placed on, will be the highest paying I have seen. SO much so, that I will actually be able to afford to allow the wife to NOT have to work. Will she do that? Probably not, as I'm sure she will go nuts...

As for the rich not allowing the poor to become a little wealthier to get by better, I would have to say its all isolated. I agree that there are companies out there that will just bend the little guy over and then toss them out. They play the numbers game instead of looking at them with a name.

But I WILL NOT place the blame on the 1% like the occupy wall streeters. Wealth does not come out of thin air, and neither does it come from out govt. It comes from people who have worked harder, thought smarter, acted smarter. They were able to play the game of capitalism and become what they are be where they are. Now, we gotta remember what capitalism does. Without the drive/motivation for more money, these people are not going to push themselves or think of other ideas to make more money.

This by-product of their actions and thoughts are our jobs. Because of these, we become employed, because they need help to make these things become so. Without the wealthy our jobs would not exist. Poor people cannot employ poor people.

Now, I will step onto my soap box and go out on a limb here and state some things that I think are our root cause of the problem.

I will start by saying that I neither like Obama nor Bush. The presidents are nothing but puppets anyways. I sincerely feel that their is an "agenda" to be followed and orchestrated carefully and timely to play it out right. This, I feel is just the product of that agenda. We are feeling the affects of those things that are being carried out.

Everyday, we are seeing the govt. grab hold of private sector and taking control of free enterprise and strangling out capitalism. This country is designed to run with LITTLE govt. interferance. The free market is suppose to run the show. But as we have all seen, the more that uncle sam dips his hand into it, the more it becomes a nusiance and a problem. Regulating what can and cannot be done doing and saying who and what can do this and that.

There is no more freedom within the free market. Suddenly, people have to start playing by a more restrictive set of rules. They can no longer be as innovative as they once were. If they cross those lines, they may have to pay fees, penalties, etc. So what do they do then? They either have to make cut backs to preserve their business entity, or they go somewhere else where the restrictions do not exist so they can once again become what they strived for.

Now, there are other factors that are influencing this displacement. Our govt. is being ran by tyrants!

We are seeing bad policies being made, and terrible decisions being carried out. We are allowing these people to run this country into the ground. They are not in the best interest of the American people. They racking up debt on our country so badly, that we are eventually going to go head over heels. We eventually are going to be told by our lenders that they will no longer support the dollar. Our goods that we produce will eventually be offset by the debt. Our GDP will no longer stave off the inevitable.

When these TYRANTS, use the only option they deemed they had, to quell this disaster, we saw the backlash it produced. If you keep printing money, money that CANNOT be backed, such as a physical commodity like GOLD, you are essentially putting that chewing gum of yours over a leaking crack in the wall of a dam.

It WILL NOT HOLD. Some day, that patchwork of gum you put up to seal the crack will give way and the dam will flood everything downstream. The product of printing this money is INFLATION. One day, we are going to see that gum give way and the flood is going to be so great, that there will be no stopping it. That day will be described as HYPER-inflation.

This will be the time where our country comes to GRINDING HALT. Everything will STOP. Suddenly, your dollar has become so worthless, that turning it into toilet paper or kindling for a fire is all that it will be worth for. It will be more worse than the great depression.

Unfortunately, IMHO, there is NO TURNING BACK. We as a country have accrued so much DEBT, that will are not going to ever even pay off our INTEREST! We are on the downhill side of things right now. The best any of our leaders could ever do is hit the brakes every once and a while to slow the descent down a bit. Then brake fade sets in and there is no more slowing down...

I know this is probably something that was not originally intended to be discussed on this thread, but really, this is where it is heading. This is something that is hard to swallow for all. But I feel it is necessary to be said. There are too many people in these days that willfully look the other way and say, "NO, thats a LIE!"

One day, we are going to know the truth, whether we like it or not...