Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest To Mopar1973Man.Com

    We are a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo Diesel forum. We are very friendly and helpful group of Dodge Ram Cummins owners. We will try to keep your truck running the best we can and provide information for diagnostics, repairs and even guide you on the best replacement parts to use. 

     

    Registration is free. Registering on the site will provide access to many more things like...
     

    • Contribute to the Forum being able to ask questions and get support for your Dodge Ram Cummins.
    • Contribute to Article Database adding your ideas and suggestions.
    • Classified Ads posted by the members. Post up your used parts and vehicles.
    • Member Garage where you can proudly display your vehicles and modifications that you have done to them.
    • Download files, documents, and Quadzilla Adrenaline tunes for your truck.
    • 911 Support Network. We've got a group of members will to aid you if your truck breaks down on the road.
    • Reduced Advertisements displayed to you.

Sign in to follow this  
JAG1

Can we talk, or is it allowed to post about Obama Care?... couple Questions.....

Recommended Posts

If it's free medical care for the poor won't that encourage more illegals across our borders?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's free medical care for the poor won't that encourage more illegals across our borders?

Boy, if you can figure it all out and tell me what it all really means, let me know. Even our "leaders" can't even agree what to call the individual mandate as. The illegals receive free medical already, they don't need to worry about this bill. If they only knew what ALL of the benefits they receive for being an illegal. Obama is shooting for granting amnesty for the current illegals. Soon enough it will just be like grand central station. Come and go as you please, it don't matter. :nono::moon:
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't have any problem with political threads as long as they don't attack people. Like saying "anyone who voted for whoever is a loser"... In other words, keep it constructive :thumb1:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not necessarily a pro Obama .... But why the focus on Obama care when there are still 2 outstanding wars in the middle east costing over 1.3 trillion and killing American soldiers ...... Don't want to start a war here either ..... But never understood that :shrug: Healthcare for low income versus war for oil ? http://costofwar.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not necessarily a pro Obama .... But why the focus on Obama care when there are still 2 outstanding wars in the middle east costing over 1.3 trillion and killing American soldiers ...... Don't want to start a war here either ..... But never understood that :shrug: Healthcare for low income versus war for oil ? http://costofwar.com/

My thoughts... :) I am not pro war. But I am pro military. I feel that the military has given much to us, technologically, economically, and has really been a big deal for many many men and women who have served. I tend to see a high success rate in .mil folks, they tend to have professional character qualities that make them very desirable and valuable people. I don't like the wars, and how they have been handled, but I will say that they have been successful in some ways. The war is significant, but not really within the same scope as the Obama Care legislation. "War for oil..." Well, sure. We need oil. Oil or die really. GW1 was over oil. Without oil, the world goes into world war fighting over it. We've gone to war over energy for pretty much ever. Again John, how its been implemented is a different thing altogether, but we go to war over natural resources, philosophy, and in the end, its supposedly in the defense of our lives and way of life. Comparing this to health care, at least we are getting a pretty big influence in the worlds biggest oil producing region. That influence should not be discounted. Russia would LOVE to have that influence, which is why it courts Iran so much. I am very opposed to how we have implemented our "social assistance" programs here in the U.S. We have turned them into entitlement programs, that far too many people live off of because they can. This is my main root beef with the legislation. Our healthcare system needed fixed, and still does. The bottom line is that we cannot afford the system that the Obama Administration and Congress designed to roll on over the next few years. Its execution and design is horrible and not sustainable. The new taxes won't cover the costs, and I do not feel like paying more taxes for others health care. Food stamps, welfare states, socialism, it isn't working in the way we have implemented it here in the USA. Socialized medicine works in our military. Socialized medicine seems to work well in Canada. But we are doing medicine wrong here. I am not opposed to helping people. I don't want to come off as cold and uncaring for the poor. I do not want to see people go hungry and just be thrown to the wolves in the cold. We are just doing it wrong with this legislation. Life isn't easy. The government can't bail us out of everything. And we just can't afford all of this.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thoughts... :)

:) ..... well for some background I have no real world experience with the military - but I have the same discussions with my dad who retired Sergeant Major (marines) and served in Vietnam, 3 purple hearts. I read the above as .. "its ok to go to war if it means we are better off and secure our future" "its not ok to spend money on illegals who cross our borders and the lazy people riding the system" Don't get me wrong - I work hard and pay taxes. I just have a different thought process. Id quite easily tomorrow give up half my net worth if it meant more people live a balanced life. Id still work hard and still try and do the most I can with what I have - but generally I feel I don't do enough in this life for other people who aren't as fortunate (legal or illegal) so if I can contribute more in taxes or do other things to help support that - Id rather do it than go to war at huge financial and personal loss. Also -I'm not naive, I know what previous wars have given in terms of security and wealth - but if we can no longer stand on our own feet and ingenuity to prosper - maybe its time for someone else to drive for a while :) Its a real hard discussion and lots of pros/cons ........ I just hate seeing people I know personally struggle for health insurance and the health of their kids (hard working people here ) .... when other countries I have lived in offer FREE healthcare ..... So to me the question I think should be asked is ..... Why do we HAVE to go to war to feel this way. And why CANT we afford free healthcare to citizens/workers even with it... :)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:) ..... well for some background I have no real world experience with the military - but I have the same discussions with my dad who retired Sergeant Major (marines) and served in Vietnam, 3 purple hearts. I read the above as .. "its ok to go to war if it means we are better off and secure our future" "its not ok to spend money on illegals who cross our borders and the lazy people riding the system" Don't get me wrong - I work hard and pay taxes. I just have a different thought process. Id quite easily tomorrow give up half my net worth if it meant more people live a balanced life. Id still work hard and still try and do the most I can with what I have - but generally I feel I don't do enough in this life for other people who aren't as fortunate (legal or illegal) so if I can contribute more in taxes or do other things to help support that - Id rather do it than go to war at huge financial and personal loss. Also -I'm not naive, I know what previous wars have given in terms of security and wealth - but if we can no longer stand on our own feet and ingenuity to prosper - maybe its time for someone else to drive for a while :) Its a real hard discussion and lots of pros/cons ........ I just hate seeing people I know personally struggle for health insurance and the health of their kids (hard working people here ) .... when other countries I have lived in offer FREE healthcare ..... So to me the question I think should be asked is ..... Why do we HAVE to go to war to feel this way. And why CANT we afford free healthcare to citizens/workers even with it... :)

John, Never said you were naive, please don't take that this way. :) I would like to keep this as a friendly discussion, as this is a truck forum, and I would not want to ruin that, as you are a smart guy and I like learning from you and bouncing ideas off you. I spent quite a bit of time reading your old transmission posts! :thumb1: Let someone else drive... Yeah, its fair to say I am not an Obama fan and that is based mainly on things other than his namesake healthcare legislation. I am not a raging Bush fan or PaulBot either. :lmao2: Also, Thanks to your dad for his service. I am not advocating war as a solution, unfortunately, many times it's been the chosen option... However, the global economy, politics, and military maneuvering are all very much linked. Still, to compare the war to Obama Care is somewhat off topic, though they are both a lot of dollars. I feel that I can support the troops, and even support our strong global presence, without contradicting my stance on Obama Care. The problem with free healthcare, and free stuff though... Is that it isn't free. Someone is going to pay for it. Most of us that work and make enough to support our families pay for much of it, our retirements, stocks, and profits will pay for it, and our progeny will pay for it. I have little to no confidence in the skills of the US Government to implement my healthcare. They have shown in the past that they have very little ability to administrate much without it becoming a bureaucratic nightmare that soaks in inefficiency and waste. As I said, the health care system in the US needs reform, but Obama Care isn't it. Its like social security. It can't be funded. It is broken. What money there is left is mostly borrowed from other areas, or supplied in deficit spending. Unfortunately, its been a scam that we've all been sold on. And the fact is that the money that we all have paid in has been spent. I don't relish the fights when we actually have to pay the piper on that one, and I don't want to see another great social program further bankrupt our nation. And as far as helping others, yes, I agree. I am not a greedy guy. I work hard and try to put myself in a position to do well, I am not one to sacrifice all and others for material gain. At the moment I have been pretty well blessed financially. That may change next year though depending on what happens. I like helping others, and believe I am called to do so. Back to my above point though, I don't feel that the government has done a good job in their efforts to build a Great Society... In the end, I feel we were better off in the days prior, in terms of the economy and the "war on poverty." Free healthcare, as administrated and as designed in the Obama Care bill, is just another big spending and tax bill that really isn't going to help us as a whole, and will really bite me over my lifetime. So in my answer to your question, we can't have FREE healthcare. We could have affordable and fair healthcare. But, unfortunately, we aren't going down the road of either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Free healthcare, as administrated and as designed in the Obama Care bill, is just another big spending and tax bill that really isn't going to help us as a whole, and will really bite me over my lifetime. So in my answer to your question, we can't have FREE healthcare. We could have affordable and fair healthcare. But, unfortunately, we aren't going down the road of either.

Hi man. No that's cool - I actually like talking about this stuff - but its always hard on forums as "context" is hard to say in words and things can be take wrongly. Yup to get back on track a little - I guess its not FREE anywhere. The point is there are countries that can make healthcare available with no/little out of pocket expense to anyone that requires it - all funded by the taxpayers. So why cant it be done here ?? :shrug: I'm no fan of any politician myself, but if I had to pick a devil it would probably be obama for at least trying to tackle some of this. Obviously the cost is huge - but again Id rather fund someone getting to take their child to doctor than funding for a "pool" or "recreation facility" in Baghdad. I just wonder what the war bought us ? Anyway - I'm definitely not in favor for bigger government, wish they would turn over most things to private and let it be. Problem is what happens when your mom dies of a heart transplant because said company uses the "cheapest" tools for the job from china, rather the recommended tools for performing the surgery. All for profit. Gets tricky. Who dictates that ? In then end I would just rather see more people have more ....... even if others including myself have to pay more (taxes ?) ........ its ridiculous to see these kids on TV running around with 1000 watches, 100000 cars and have no understanding what that means to the average family. Agree tho no idea what the solution is ......:ahhh:
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't mind popping in on this conversation with an opinion on the "free health care" part of it if I may being i'm from Canada, a country that has this set up. I haven't really payed any attention to what your Gov't's free system is going to be like , but I can tell you this about ours. We have a huge shortage of doctors in the province I live in, one case here I know of is one doctor having over 3500 patients by himself, This doctor is in his eighties himself and who knows what will happen when he dies, to his patients. Wait times on our medical is at most times ridiculous, unless you have a good doctor that can push you in for tests, but that being said, if they suspect or know you have a life threatening issue, they are not as bad as some things. Ex: I have been on a waiting list since April of 2011 for an MRI for a sinus problem I have, and the doctor said he wanted to get one on me to rule out any tumours in my head or sinus passages. It's to the point now that if they do call me I'm going to ask if they're joking...i'd most likely be dead by now if it was a tumour ,would be my response.Doctors here get payed "ok", but honestly for what they do and the hours some of them put in, I don't blame them for coming across the border to the USA or other countries that offer a much larger bowel of gravy to them, and that's what is causing a shortage here. Treatments here.... here is my take on it compared to what I "hear" about the USA. Cancer : you go in, they do tests and find you have cancer, they look at your age, how severe they think it is, they basically look at a chart that groups you as well as any other person similar to you going through it, and say, "this is the treatment for this group of people". I'm told with the USA that they treat you as a specific case and look at the best treatment for you, for your body, giving different treatments between lets say Joe's cancer and Tom's cancer. Does that give a better survival rate, I don't know? My wife went through breast cancer 4 years ago at 37 years old, they gave her a mixture of chemo that most likely was the exact same mixture as the other person beside her getting treatments for maybe a different degree or stage of cancer, because it was for "that general catagory" of the disease. Personally, I think if you are a paying customer and can afford the treatments, you then get the one on one types of treatment for your type of cancer, that we have heard the USA can offer people, but again that comes with a sometimes financially ruining pricetag, unless you have insurance that covers most of it. Now, with all this being said, the cost associated with my wifes ordeal most likely would've financially burdened us for many many years (not that that would've mattered), so we are lucky we have "free " health care. My father had a heart attack 24 years ago, they did a few balloons to his arteries, when the small metal stint first came out onto the market that they insert to keep the artery open @ $4000 a pop, he had 2 inserted, no cost to him. He had hundreds of hospital visits, doctor visits, and tests throughout his last 24 years, and it didn't ruin him finanically because we have this system here. I'm sure if they had shown us a bill on him from start to the time he died last Sept, it would've been well over $200 k, but thats a guess. My 8 year old niece, brain tumour 3 years ago and they dealt with her for a solid year and a half, and are still doing things to her to get her back to rights. Without an exageration I bet that bill has to be over a half million for what I see them do for her so far. Some things had to be paid out of pocket, but her parents are still ok financially to my knowledge, all because of "free" health care. How is all this payed for ?...the taxpayer paying income taxes and also sales taxes. Sad part about that is most times it's the middle class earner that's paying most of the way for everyone, because the low income workers don't make enough to pay much for income tax and the rich have enough to be able to pay someone how to figure out how to get out of paying. I don't like paying taxes at all, but I never complain about paying the tax portion that goes towards health care for the simple fact of what it has done for my 3 family members so far. I hate paying taxes that our gov't throws away on moron induced decisions, but I wont go into that...to long of a conversation. Is our system good, is it bad, everyone will have an opinion, but I can say this..I went for a chest xray about two months ago and blood work, and not one cent came out of my pocket at the hospital or the doctors office when it all was done. I hope your system proves to be helpful for the people. On a last note, here's where there's a huge problem in our society IMO..a local hockey player from my area (Sidney Crosby) just got signed for a 104 million dollar deal I think it was for 10 years or something like that...and then you have a brain surgeon earning idk, maybe $125-150 K a year...where's the common sense in that? The hockey player isn't saving lives, the doctor sometimes is! There is no common sense anymore, that's the problem. That's my take

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why can't it? For the same reason we can't tackle Social Security and Welfare. Its the political third rail that nobody wants to tackle.

For quality... The same problem exists in socialized medicine.

The difference there, is that everybodys mom who can't afford 100% private care gets the lowest bidder Chinese heart valve.

I would also argue that commercialized medicine fights poor quality service pretty well. Some of my family has had quite a bit of health problems, and they have found that the competition in hospitals is fierce for their business. At least their local hospitals keep pretty tight standards on a lot of things, (can't say how they are nationally...) as their margins are very dependent on their reputation. A smear campaign would really really mess up their business.

Plus, doctors tend to not want to kill their patients and will try their best to use the best... I don't see that happening with a mandated G.I. scaupel, heart valve, knee, etc thats good enough to pass whatever standard the regulating agency comes up with.

As for what people have, yeah, people are poor stewards. If they earned that money, tis their money, I don't deserve any of it. They are the ones that will have to answer to what they did with their lives, resources, and abilities. A lot of people have said that my truck is a useless waste of money as are my other interests, and that money could be better spent elsewhere if we all drove a Prius.

:think:

How about this John... Legal Reform. Tort Reform? So that the excessive cost of malpractice is reduced, and the cost of malpractice is the loss of ones ability to work or some other penalty? As it is, the doctors lose, but so do we and the insurance companies aren't evil either... They are just covering the doctor's butts financially as the docs want/need as the docs have families and mortgages too.

How about some cleaning up of how health care is billed out? I've been to the ER... and I can tell you, its amazing how much a few stitches and stuff can cost! And there are more than one charge depending on if you are insured and if you arent, and who you are insured by... Double charging individuals and insurance companies are rampant. All I am asking for here is a little honesty in pricing and billing... not too much to ask I think.

This would lower costs for insurance on both sides (doc and patient) and make things a bit more even on the hospitals side.

:shrug:

- - - Updated - - -

Dobie... Paragraphs? :pray:

Sorry. It hurts my eyes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I have got to sya something here. We in this country have needed health care reform for many decades. Obama care seems to me to be trying to control the cost of insurance. If we dont get control of the cost of health care, the cost of insurance is going to keep going up no matter what. Obama care and getting all the unisured to join in will increase the insurance pool but the cost of the care will soon out strip any andvantage that is brought to the table, and then it will start rising again. If the government is going to pick up the slack then taxes are going to go up to cover it. The last time I looked at taxes paid in Europe(maybe Canada, I dont know) their tax rate is higher than ours to help pay for it. I am willing to help take care of folks that genuinly need help. No one should have to do with out health care. But at what point do you draw the line. Someone has to pay for it and with the government involved it is all of us the pick up the tab. I just read an aricle in USA today that discussed the disparity in pricing for an MRI. the prices ranged from $250 to $2500, depending your insurance or whether you are poor, but have cash. There has to be some kind of happy medium on prices for care to help get that aspect under control. Take Lasik eye care for an example. When first brought on the market it was near $3k per eye. Most insurance does not cover this procedure, so it is in a market based service. It now only cost $250 to $300 an eye. This should appply to almost any thing, IMHO. I think tort reform and let the insurance companies cross state lines to sell ther product would help. This might not be a cure all, but i am all for anything that keeps the goverment out of control of my body.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep govt. out my my house and out of my doctors office. Do you really think the govt can run anything? Everything it touches goes to h--- in a short matter of time. As for the border, come see for your self. All I can say is it aint what it used to be, it's a he-- of a lot worse.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep govt. out my my house and out of my doctors office. Do you really think the govt can run anything? Everything it touches goes to h--- in a short matter of time. As for the border, come see for your self. All I can say is it aint what it used to be, it's a he-- of a lot worse.

As for the border, I am to far away. As for my house and my Doctors office I have to agree!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then should we keep govt out of banks too? I don't think the govt is in the dr's office anyway. The law requires you to have insurance because the supreme court said you will eventually need healthcare so you might as well be paid up. The argument is that you will be spending the money anyway so you are encouraged to spend it in a way that benefits everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... Do you really think the govt can run anything? ....

History has proven, it ya want it broken, give it to an engineer. If you want it totally screwed up ... give it to your elected officials ... they have a constant track record !

Also, our friends lives in Arizona and we worry about them. He was shot at on 'his' land early this year and now carries a rifle with him to check on the animals and the land. Hell of a way to live.

A great bit of info:

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont mind helping people out thats whats great about this country but I am real tired of helping people out that dont help themselves! I had my own buisiness for 22 years and it all went away with the NAFTA bill than I had to cowboy up and find a job it took awhile to find a decent one but I did. I am afraid for my children and grandchildren as there going to be paying for all these mistakes.........

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then should we keep govt out of banks too? I don't think the govt is in the dr's office anyway. The law requires you to have insurance because the supreme court said you will eventually need healthcare so you might as well be paid up. The argument is that you will be spending the money anyway so you are encouraged to spend it in a way that benefits everyone.

I think the government is as much to blame for the banks with their everyone needs to own a home thing started under Clinton I beleive. So yes they must regulate many things in our lives, like it or not. I dont think the government is in my dr's office as of yet. But it does worry me they will be sometime in the future if we let them in. I cant argue with it being better to have everyone in the insurance pool, it does benefit all concerned. If health care cost keep rising as they have been, insurance cost cant do anything but go up to keep up. Even with every citizen covered the cost of the care just keeps rising and rising and in turn so does your premiums. I had my gall bladder removed about 5 years ago and ended up in an out of network hospital.(I should have done a better job on that). Any way it doubled my cost and the hospital was going to charge me near 40% more than they would have charged the insurance co. They did however let me pay the insurance co rate. The part I dont get is if I had walked in that hospital for the surgery with $100 bills in my hand, it would have cost me 40% more than going thru an insurance co. No claims to file, none of the BS to put up with, just plain old hard cash. Why should I have to pay more with cash than dealing with the insuranc co? The system needs a major tune up, there is just no rhyme or reason to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"its ok to go to war if it means we are better off and secure our future" Nobody wants war, but sometimes there is no other choice. How do you deal with a bull? If you give into them they just take more, how do you deal with someone that wants to kill you and do not care if they die themselves? You have to stop them before they can do you or your loved ones harm."its not ok to spend money on illegals who cross our borders and the lazy people riding the system" I would rather spend money on people who are here legally that need it. Don't get me wrong, we should help those that need help, but where do we stop? Do we all go poor to help everyone? There are a lot of people that want something for nothing, I work six days a week, up to 16 hours sometimes, I do not expect someone to pay for things that I want. If I can not afford it, then I will have to wait to get it. It is not the governments job to make sure that I have health care, it is not the governments job to make sure that I eat healthy, it is not the governments job to make sure that I get enough excersize every day. People have to take respondsibility for their lives, not hand it over to the government. Don't get me wrong - I work hard and pay taxes. I just have a different thought process. Id quite easily tomorrow give up half my net worth if it meant more people live a balanced life. You can do this, donate to a charitable orginization, you do not need the government to take it from you. In fact I have heard that you can, if you so desire, give money to the government above what you pay in taxes. If you feel that the government can do things better than you. I do not think that way, I would rather donate to my church and let them help the poor, elderly and those in need. I do not know a lot about the health care bill, so I do not know if it is good or bad, but I think that if it is the government taking control of my health care, then the out come will not be good. From what I understand the government can now tell me how to eat healthy so that my health will be better and I do not have to visit the doctors office near as much. In the late 80's I was in the Navy. During my time in the service, we where given a 2% pay raise for cost of living increase, the same year politicians gave themselves a 50% pay raise, I guess it is nice when you can say how much pay to give yourself. We, the People, need to change how things are done. It seems that politicians, and not all of them, but some of them, are out for themselves. I wish I knew how to change things, it would be great to live in a world where people are not greedy, bullies or need help with their life, but it is not that way and life is not fair. I have seen several countries try to make a utopia, but in the end it is not substainable and the people at the top get greedy and do what every it takes to keep their power. If you think that the government is any better at purchasing things like replacement hips, they put bids out and go with the lowest bid, hello China parts. I broke my leg a while back and the doctor said that he would do his best to get me back, but it was a pretty bad break. I am doing real well now, but if it ended up needing my leg cut off I hope that I would not blame the doctor, medicine is not an exact science as far as I know. I think that tort reform is something that needs to happen, doctors do make mistakes, it is tragic when they do but I am willing to bet they are not intentional! I agree with dobienut that the wrong people make the wrong pay. A basket ball player makes millions while a teacher teaching your children makes only thousands, a singer makes bank while the people that feed you can bearly survive. Why is it that an actor that produces nothing can make 20 million a movie, while a person that produces a crop that ensures that you do not go hungry has to live on food stamps? People have their priorities wrong, I just wish that I knew how to fix it. Over all I would like a smaller government, most people respect the rules and are not out only for themselves. The few that are greedy, are the ones that get the most attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"its ok to go to war if it means we are better off and secure our future" Nobody wants war, but sometimes there is no other choice. How do you deal with a bull? If you give into them they just take more, how do you deal with someone that wants to kill you and do not care if they die themselves? You have to stop them before they can do you or your loved ones harm. "its not ok to spend money on illegals who cross our borders and the lazy people riding the system" I would rather spend money on people who are here legally that need it. Don't get me wrong, we should help those that need help, but where do we stop? Do we all go poor to help everyone?

Here's the thing. What does working hard entitle you to ? Do you work harder than the lady raising a family by herself, working 3 jobs paying minimum wage and cant afford to have her kids teeth fixed ? How about someone who came from a country where their life was in jeopardy for speaking out against something wrong ..... and now working cash construction jobs in Florida ? What happens if the US goes to crap on borrowed funds and you cant get a job or even milk (think depression) and your son/daughter tries to go to canada or some other country but cant legally work ? Will you feel the same way about support of healthcare to illegals then ? Honestly man don't get me wrong. I do not like supporting lazy people. I would do what I had to to help protect my family. I wouldnt not not help a mexican because he was hit by a car but was illegally in my country, and I wouldnt shoot someone because he was a bully or trying to take something from me. As for religion - well more damage and wars have been fought in that name than about all others - but that's a different topic. Yes I believe in god. No I don't believe he wants these wars and this way for us. In the end like I said - I guess its a different thought process. I think if we were ALL poorer - there would be less of a divide. Would you want that porsche/new car or 500k house if the normal for everyone was basic food and health, a 50k 3 bedroom and minivan. Everyone who works hard now thinks they are entitled to things and not thinking about people less fortunate to them. I'm not saying Im right either. Just trying to throw a different concept out there. I feel fortunate, Im not an illegal, not out of work, and lucky. I just dont think I deserve to right to tell someone else what he can or cant have/do because part of that money was mine and I worked hard for it. Wheres that get us as a society ? Finally - when your looking down at these people thinking all this about how hard you work and how much you deserve. Think about it the other way. How about the bankers and ball players you mention. What do you think they are thinking. Basically the same thing. They think you are lazy, uneducated and dont deserve things also. They think they are "gifted, harder working" and shouldn't be paying the high taxes on their many millions. They worked hard for it. Its always the "haves" that want to keep it from the "have nots". Its at the very core of our mentality/upbringing. I don't think that benefits anyone. :thumbup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the problem that creates all these other problems is that everyone has a difference of opinion.. I don't understand why people who never care to work or learn any skills that would allow them to work are entitled to money from my paycheck. The problem is that if you get laid off, would you not want the government to help you until the economy picks back up and you get your job back? So now we have handouts, being handed out from those who still have a job, who now wonder why you get part of their paycheck. Then there are those on disability. I realize there are people who are actually disabled but it seems like there are 10 people who COULD work for every 1 person that is actually disabled. I mean I have had heart surgery, I could say it hurts when I exert myself, now I get disability and could do nothing for life. They can't prove I'm not in any pain. It gets back to greed really. We say the rich are greedy, but most of them have put in a lot of long hours and such to get where they are. Their kids will probably be greedy since they always get what they want and will always be wanting more. But how are those getting welfare checks and disability checks any different? I'm not talking about those who deserve it I'm talking about those who say their ear hurts so they can get disability. Uhh back to the original topic of difference of opinion.. Everyone has a way to say their idea is best depending on how they portray it. I could say every 18 year old should be given $50k to get the economy going by sending them all to college or getting them all into a house worth living in and I could have statistics to prove the benefits. I could also say every 18 year old should have to put in 2 years of hard labor to pay off the 12 years of hell they gave their teachers lol. There doesn't seem to ever be a law or something that always works in every instance, and thats where all the turmoil gets involved. I could look over the most profitable city's economy, finances, everything, and it works great there obviously, but when I apply it to the nation, it brings the whole nation to a halt. Lets say everyone in NYC saved a lot by riding the bus, so obama saw that and took the initiative to put buses in every city. Well now we got a lot of buses with 1 person riding them and yeah what works in one scenario doesn't always work somewhere else. I think everyone needs to be well more like what John said with all of us being poorer. But then where would the incentive for innovation be? Now you see the problems with humanity...if you do one thing it affects another. Same with what Dobienut said, free health care in Canada but that means the doctors are paid by the government a fixed salary, and they don't see the point so that is why there isn't very good health care there. People like to be thanked for their services.. The superstar thing is unreal. I don't see how we have billions of dollars just floating around to pay all the celebrities. But like you all said, priorities are skewed. You will pay $50 to see whoever at a concert and probably would pay anything for actually because you think you NEED to see them, yet you go home and complain about the $5/gal milk.. Milk is practically as essential as water, yet we want it to be as cheap as coca cola :think: People complained more about $5/gal milk than $5/gal gas. I really don't care about $5/gas because I can simply change priorities to allow for the cost. Everyone on the news said they could barely put bread on the table because of the $5 price and yadda yadda but the same people had $300 iphones which inherently carry a $70+/month bill. Priorities.... You can't please everyone, but I have learned that you can do just fine agreeing with people. This works a lot better in a small workplace environment than the government though :lol: So there will always be turmoil. There are differences of opinion within this thread, but it works out if you look at it from the other persons perspective, rather than just your own, which I think you all have done here so it hasn't broke out in war yet lol. :thumbup2:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Common sence aint what it used to be. :lmao:

As in common cents? :lol: .....Ain't nothin' common about the cost of anything now a days but, healthcare services??....Are the worst...... act like it is beneath their integrity to ask for a price before getting any of their service. Act like this...:nono::nono: Personally, I don't like the 7 percent tax on when you sell your house to go to Obama care. It matters not if you have any equity too.... you still have to pay the 7%. That makes me sick right there:sick:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



×