lift pump ?

[jp4bigblue]

I am about to purchase the Raptor 100. I was under the truck today just trying to see what i am getting into. It seems I have a pump mounted to the frame next to the gas tank, which i knew because I can here it come on (and its not the first time under the truck)....when i follow the fuel line up towards the filter it looks like there is another pump mounted on the block next to the filter. I followed the fuel line to this (pump?) and then out of it into the top of the fuel filter. I have only had this truck a couple months and I dont know the history. I am thinking that the original pump was block mounted? And that when someone replaced the pump they just left the old pump in line? When I install the new lift pump should I just take the new fuel lines straight into the connection at the top of the filter?Thanks for any help for the new guy.:)Jason

[gassernomore]

I am thinking that the original pump was block mounted? And that when someone replaced the pump they just left the old pump in line? When I install the new lift pump should I just take the new fuel lines straight into the connection at the top of the filter? Thanks for any help for the new guy. Jason

Yes, by pass the filter on the block. Is the pump on the block have power to it? Just wondering, because the PO might have put the extra pump on to assist the weaker pump at the block. Do you know what type of pump it is by the tank? The good thing is, the pump is close to the tank, the PO did you a favor! Why are you putting in a new pump? What is your fuel pressure?

[dripley]

I had a similar set up on mine at one time except my oe lift pump had been replaced with the in tank version. It did work, but i kept worrrying one of th pumps would go out. Since you are getting the Raptor it would best to toss the other two. Since the Raptor has no filtration you will need to run it to the filter cansiter or add a filter somewhere else. It would also be good to installl abig line kit from the cannister to the vp to open that line up. A fuel pressure gauge is something you really need so you cna monitor that pressure. You want to keep it above 14 psi at all times. You need the pressure so the pump is coolled properly. I have mine set at 19 at idle and it drops to 16 at WOT.Your vp is colled and lubed by the fuel that passes thru it. The check valve that lets this fuel thru is fully open near 14psi. Welcome to the family.

[jp4bigblue]

Yes, by pass the filter on the block. Is the pump on the block have power to it? Just wondering, because the PO might have put the extra pump on to assist the weaker pump at the block. Do you know what type of pump it is by the tank? The good thing is, the pump is close to the tank, the PO did you a favor!

Why are you putting in a new pump? What is your fuel pressure?

I am not sure if the pump on the block is working. I didnt even no it was there until tonight. I knew the one was on the frame by the tank but only discovered the block pump when I was following the line up to see how hard the half inch lines would be to put in.

I dont have a fuel pressure gauge yet. I just ordered it. I didnt see a name on the frame mounted pump. I will probably see what my fuel pressure is before I purchase a new pump.

jason

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I had a similar set up on mine at one time except my oe lift pump had been replaced with the in tank version. It did work, but i kept worrrying one of th pumps would go out. Since you are getting the Raptor it would best to toss the other two.

Since the Raptor has no filtration you will need to run it to the filter cansiter or add a filter somewhere else. It would also be good to installl abig line kit from the cannister to the vp to open that line up. A fuel pressure gauge is something you really need so you cna monitor that pressure. You want to keep it above 14 psi at all times. You need the pressure so the pump is coolled properly. I have mine set at 19 at idle and it drops to 16 at WOT.

Your vp is colled and lubed by the fuel that passes thru it. The check valve that lets this fuel thru is fully open near 14psi.

Welcome to the family.

Thanks Dave. I am also using the advice you gave me on another post I started about hooking up a mechanical gauge. I have it ordered. Once i figure my fuel pressure I will no how fast I will need my new pump.

Thanks for the welcome.

Jason

[Rogan]

It seems I have a pump mounted to the frame next to the gas tank, which i knew because I can here it come on (and its not the first time under the truck).... Jason

Jason, Can you post a pic of this pump? Thanks.

[dripley]

My second pump was a BD diesel booster pump. I bought it from them for $300 i think. Installed it after the in tank pump pressure fell off badly and it did keep my presure to safe margin. When I finally installed the AD I noticed the pump was made by Carter. I was a little more than suprised. As far as frunning thru the stock filter canister, the last time I looked at a Raptor, it does not come with any filtration and needs the stock filter, unless you add one somewher else.

[gassernomore]

I am not sure if the pump on the block is working.

Easiest way to see if the pump on the block is working is to see if the wires from the pump are hooked upto the wiring harness or just dangling there. If hooked up, then it would be like Dave is describing as a helper pump. P.S. I meant to say "bypass the pump" not the filter!

[dripley]

My intank pump was connected thru a harness very simmilar to the AD harness. I am not sure where it got its signal to run though. The oe harness was dangling and not being used. The booster pump was wired into an oil pressure switch on the drivers side of the block. The booster pump did not come on until a certain oil pressure was reached. I dont remember what that pressure was though. I am certain it was there to keep from over powering the VP on start up.Thanks Gasser for carifying the pump/filter thing.

[jp4bigblue]

Jason,

Can you post a pic of this pump?

Thanks.

This is the pump that is mounted to the frame by the tank. It is loud...I hear it buzz as soon as I turn the key on.

Sorry didnt get the pic up last night...it got dark before I could take the picture.

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My intank pump was connected thru a harness very simmilar to the AD harness. I am not sure where it got its signal to run though. The oe harness was dangling and not being used. The booster pump was wired into an oil pressure switch on the drivers side of the block. The booster pump did not come on until a certain oil pressure was reached. I dont remember what that pressure was though. I am certain it was there to keep from over powering the VP on start up.

Thanks Gasser for carifying the pump/filter thing.

I will no more about whats going on after I get my pressure gauge hooked up. Its supposed to be here any day. I plan to get the new pump ordered next week. Sounds like the install will be pretty easy.

When I bypass the block mounted pump should I disconnect the wiring harness. Do I need to run new wires back to the new pump.

Thanks for all your guys help.

Jason

[dripley]

I have never installed a Raptor, but I would think it comes with a haress very similar to the AD I installed on mine. If so you will be plugging the harnes from the oe lift pump into the harness. That will provide the signal from the ECM to engage the relay in the new harness. The power for the pump will come from elsewhere. I have wired to the altenator for a power source. It can also run straight from the battery. All of that should be addressed in the instalation instructions. You can download the instructions from pure flow's web site without purchasing if you want to look them over.The pump on the frame rail looks alot like the one I had. Looks like it might have been there a while. It would not hurt to see the pressure its putting out, at least you can see what the VP has been running on. Good luck.

[Mopar1973Man]

Raptor and AirDog's have the same kind of electrical hook up so it's all plug N play. The Bosch VP44 injection pump does require 70% of the fuel to be returned to the fuel tank for proper cooling and lubing of the VP44. The only way to do it is to keep the fuel pressure above 14 PSI all the time.Question do you have a gauge in the truck?

[jp4bigblue]

Raptor and AirDog's have the same kind of electrical hook up so it's all plug N play. The Bosch VP44 injection pump does require 70% of the fuel to be returned to the fuel tank for proper cooling and lubing of the VP44. The only way to do it is to keep the fuel pressure above 14 PSI all the time. Question do you have a gauge in the truck?

Not yet. I just got it in the mail yesterday. I will be putting it in this weekend. Thanks for the help. jason

[Rogan]

The pump on the frame rail looks alot like the one I had. Looks like it might have been there a while. It would not hurt to see the pressure its putting out, at least you can see what the VP has been running on. Good luck.

Looks like an OE-style replacement, to me.. And crusty.

[dripley]

Looks like an OE-style replacement, to me.. And crusty.

The one I bought from BD diesel years ago turned out to be a carter. I did not know much about it then. It did keep decent pressure though. Much better than the in tank pump. Mine did not look as crusty as JP's.

[Rogan]

Mine (on the block) is a Carter, like his. It does decent.. 17psi no load, but drops to 10-ish under heavy load.. :nono:So I try not to do that, as much as possible.

[dorkweed]

I run a Walbro LP on my '04.5. 6+ years now on the same pump. I'm on the second wiring harness though.........as I live in the rust best, and the salt just eats away the connections under the truck. That's the reason I like the Raptor..........sealed electrical connections. With my Walbro, I rely on liquid electrical tape, but even after so long, that lets in road salt and grime that eats the wire ends!!! The terminals on the Walbro are fine, just the wiring and the ends that fit over the terminals go away. I rebuilt the original Walbro harness from GDP after I bought a new one from them, but I may just call Richard up and see if he any left!!! And get another!!The only downside to Walbro systems are the exposed terminals on the pump itself!!! My pump still, in this the hottest summer that I can recall, still puts out 23-24psi pre-fuel filters!!! Yes filters; I run the OEM canister one and a 2micron after before the CP3 injection pump.

[Rogan]

Curious, is the walbro diesel-specific? How are you regulating pressure?From the Galaxy S3

[dorkweed]

Curious, is the walbro diesel-specific? How are you regulating pressure? From the Galaxy S3

No, it is not. I don't even think that it's OK'd for use with diesel.............but it's OK'd for a lot of stuff much worse IIRC!!! I sure wish I had access to CF archives now to answer this question. There was a fellow over there for a while that championed/promoted/pioneered the use of the little Walbro GSL392 as LP's for our Cummins engines. The Walbro pump when compared to the Carter that many run; is like comparing Arnold Schwartzenegger to PeeWee Herman IMHO!!!! My Walbro system was purchased thru GDP. I do believe I was one of the first 10-12 that Richard sent out once he fabbed up his prototype........tested it.........tested it again.......and then started building them to sell them. Pressure is regulated by an inline regulator (supplied by GDP) that I have plumbed in after the CP3 on my truck. Works well, but the needle on my FP gauge does jump up and down rowing the gears and if I get a "happy right foot"!!! With the stupid, hot weather we've been seeing around here this year, my FP reads 23-25psi depending on how hot the fuel is and the outside temp is!!! In the winter, sometimes the FP gauge will be pegged at 30+ due to the thicker fuel!!! Never have had a gelling problem while solely doing the 2 stroke thing in winter either!!! Normally winter FP read 25-27psi. Anything else lemme know!!

[jp4bigblue]

In case anyone wondered I looked at the pump closer and it is a carter. I hooked up my fuel pressure gauge today. It says I am running at 22 psi at idle. It is an isopro mechanical gauge. Guess I have a little time before I have to replace the pump......that means I get new tires .Thanks for all the input. I was really confused when I discovered 2 pumps.Jason

[Mopar1973Man]

Be aware of the double stacking lift pumps. I had a local Dodge Cummins with the exact same setup. What happen is the first pump (rear) was pushing so hard that it shoved the regulator BB out of the second pump (front stock) and started chewing up the sliding vanes till it wedge the BB between the vane and pump housing and stop pumping pressure fell to ZERO and the truck died. What I found out is Carter / Federal Mogul pumps are not design to have any inlet pressure only vacuum so watch you pressure gauge closely. I ended up doing a service call on this truck because neither the owner or the shop it was at knew enough about Cummins fuel systems to figure out why it died. But this is what I learned about double stack lift pumps (Carters) and the damages it could or can do.I ended up replacing the front lift pump and remove all the rear add on lift pump and the truck ran fine. I also warned the owner to get gauges but still hasn't.