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JOHNFAK

Burnt Read Diff Fluid

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ok.Going to highlight my ignorance in suspension/differentials here.Heard a squeak like brakes 2 days ago. Ignored it as it kind of sounded like it was comming and going like brakes.Kept coming back and as I was backing in today I jumped out and had wife back it up as it seemed worse hard turn in reverse.Not brakes. Definitely sounded like from the diff/u-joint area. I wondered if I had run out of fluid so pulled the rear diff plug - theres fluid but it really is burnt and darker in color and obviously there's metal on metal contact for that squeaking sound.Heres the tricky part. Its Saturday evening. Im in a state park and moving around 20 miles with 5th wheel tomorrow to another park. I dont think I have any choice but to hook up and carefully get it there and hope for best. Even then its then Sunday and I start a new job Monday and only have 1 car.So - whats everyone think could/is the issue, how to check ... and how about the driving I mention above ?Obviously Im going to pull the rear diff cover ASAP and see whats going on ......... but apart from seeing burnt fluid and some metal shavings ...... dont know what else to look for or expect.thx

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I would check the u-joints and carrier bearing on the drivelines first before pulling covers. Generally you will not get a squeak out of the internal diff area. It is normal to have a little bit of fine silt like metal on the diff magnet.

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I would check the u-joints and carrier bearing on the drivelines first before pulling covers. Generally you will not get a squeak out of the internal diff area. It is normal to have a little bit of fine silt like metal on the diff magnet.

Sticking my finger in the fluid port though it smells quite burnt and is much darker in color than it should be. :shrug: How to check u-joints and carrier bearing ? (I told you showing my ignorance here). The carrier bearing does look rough .... and has some play in it if I really yank on it ..... - I just never checked it before to really know.

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If the diff fluid is burnt, you have a problem. Even if there are other problems in the drive line, you don't have long on the diff fluid.

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I would at least load up with fluid till its full again. At least keep things lubed and cooled while you move. As for the metal to metal it could be hub bearings from lack of lube. (I'm hoping for the easy stuff!) :pray:

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I would at least load up with fluid till its full again. At least keep things lubed and cooled while you move. As for the metal to metal it could be hub bearings from lack of lube. (I'm hoping for the easy stuff!) :pray:

yeah think my plan is to tow slowly to new site in morning (~20 miles). Then go and change rear diff fluid - could be just with the amount of towing and 25k-30k miles its overdue. Not 100% sure as I checked it less than 5000 miles back and it was ok. Assuming W&F is right - he usually is - and seeing as I also noticed carrier bearing was looking rough - hoping its that. But unsure how to check ??? Also ujoints. Also looking at parts on rockauto [ Timkren HB88108D and HB88107A ] is it a 35mm or 40mm .... seems easy enough to replace - but not sure on size .... and also if the bearing is pressed on - then I probably cant do it and will need to take to shop. :banghead:

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As mike said top it off, Also to check the driveline u can have the wife run through the gears while you lay under it and watch the Joints and look for slop/play as well listen for it. Good luck

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I should have all the tools here to change axle bearings if you need a hand. Or better yet, Macdill AFB does but I dont know if the shop is open on Sunday. Full float rear end doesnt have bearings pressed on does it? Been a while since i did seals and cant remember.:whistle:

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ok. Going to highlight my ignorance in suspension/differentials here. Heard a squeak like brakes 2 days ago. Ignored it as it kind of sounded like it was comming and going like brakes. Kept coming back and as I was backing in today I jumped out and had wife back it up as it seemed worse hard turn in reverse. Not brakes. Definitely sounded like from the diff/u-joint area. I wondered if I had run out of fluid so pulled the rear diff plug - theres fluid but it really is burnt and darker in color and obviously there's metal on metal contact for that squeaking sound. Heres the tricky part. Its Saturday evening. Im in a state park and moving around 20 miles with 5th wheel tomorrow to another park. I dont think I have any choice but to hook up and carefully get it there and hope for best. Even then its then Sunday and I start a new job Monday and only have 1 car. So - whats everyone think could/is the issue, how to check ... and how about the driving I mention above ? Obviously Im going to pull the rear diff cover ASAP and see whats going on ......... but apart from seeing burnt fluid and some metal shavings ...... dont know what else to look for or expect. thx

It may not be feasible bieng in a campground but I would jack the rear end up support it with jackstands that way you can rotate everything to better pinpoint where the noise is coming from. It could very well be u joints, but its odd that it gets worse as you turn sharp? To me that seems like it could be diff related. Jacking it up and and freeing the tires up to turn should help you pinpoint the source.
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I should have all the tools here to change axle bearings if you need a hand. Or better yet, Macdill AFB does but I dont know if the shop is open on Sunday. Full float rear end doesnt have bearings pressed on does it? Been a while since i did seals and cant remember.:whistle:

Thx bud.

Yeah if its the carrier bearing that looks like its pressed on. So if it needs replacing will require a press so thats definatlely not something I carry with me at the RV.

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It may not be feasible bieng in a campground but I would jack the rear end up support it with jackstands that way you can rotate everything to better pinpoint where the noise is coming from. It could very well be u joints, but its odd that it gets worse as you turn sharp? To me that seems like it could be diff related. Jacking it up and and freeing the tires up to turn should help you pinpoint the source.

Going to crawl back under this morning and get a better look - but was planning to jack it up - just might be hard here with the rangers and all - so will do that at the next campground also. Im guessing its either the carrier bearing or something in the diff gears ....... weird it has burnt fluid is all as I checked before last long haul and it seemed ok. Was mainly doing levels though.

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Thx bud.

Yeah if its the carrier bearing that looks like its pressed on. So if it needs replacing will require a press so thats definatlely not something I carry with me at the RV.

- - - Updated - - -

Going to crawl back under this morning and get a better look - but was planning to jack it up - just might be hard here with the rangers and all - so will do that at the next campground also. Im guessing its either the carrier bearing or something in the diff gears ....... weird it has burnt fluid is all as I checked before last long haul and it seemed ok. Was mainly doing levels though.

Have you developed any new leaks around the diff area recently? That could be an indication of a problem too and a good place to start looking.

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Have you developed any new leaks around the diff area recently? That could be an indication of a problem too and a good place to start looking.

No leaks. Got to walmart and got some 85-90w gear oil ..... as well as some lucas oil stabilizer hopefully that stuff is ok ..... http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=7&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Heavy%20Duty%20Oil%20Stabilizer Going to drop pan and refiull in park before I hook up. Then I will get it on some jacks when I get into new park.

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Can still see through it and has actual honey color yet so that indicates its not too bad yet. If it was burned you would have to plug your nose at 100 yards away. Burned Gear lube is about the most pewtred smell you can think of.:sick:If you have a failure bad enough to burn the diff gear lube "Leaving extreme Over loaded payload towing and lack of maintenance out of the equation" you would have noticed issues a long time ago.I am not ruling anything out but usually diff failures or bearing failures will let you know via howling sounds or growling if it gets severe enough, I have never heard a diff make a squeak sound unless it had little to no oil left in it.

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When I reload my diff I was squeeze in a extra bit more fluid (8 oz) or so by covering the hole partial with my thumb and squeezing i that bit more. Then stuff the plug back in quickly. The I would take the truck out to a open pull out and do figure eights for at least 4-5 laps to push the oil out to the hubs. Then return home check the fluid level again typically when I tip the plug slightly I should get some weeping back out if so I'm happy. It also always me to sample the fluid and see what happen without dipping my finger.

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Got the new magtec cover on ans new fluid in .... Hardly any material and all looked clean. I might of overreacted on how burnt the fluid was due to sound . I think it's either a wheel bearing or carrier bearing .... I'll jack it up to oft hopefully keep you posted . Thanks guys and w&f

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Just saw this thread and thought I'd jump in.The differential oil looked OK. Not great but OK. Differential oil STINKS and limited slip additive stinks even worse so maybe thats the smell you were smelling. And as already mentioned, noises like you mentioned should never be coming from the differential. But u-joints can definitely make a squeaking noise. They might be silent too until there's a significant amount of pressure on them. What you'll want to do is park the truck on a flat surface, leave the parking brake off, leave it in neutral, get under the truck and grab ahold of the driveshaft close to where the u-joints are. Forcefully turn the shaft and wiggle it as well. You should see ZERO play in the u-joints. But.....this doesnt always mean they're good. Sometimes a cap can get water in it or even run dry on lube and it will look just fine but the needle bearings are making noise. In the early stages or trouble the u-joints can look just fine but when they're making noise, you should be able to see it move a little.

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I heard squeak before what driving but thought it was brakes or dust in brakes. Then it came back a couple times so I jumped out and had her check which tire but she said it sounded from back but not from tire .... So I checked thought the same .... Hasn't done it since fluid change .... Seemed worse in reverse before also .... Going to keep monitoring tomorrow and jack it up and check bearings .... Will get wife to call around for shop that can do carrier bearing and u joints ...., don't have a press or anywhere to work easily until I get into a house and starting new job tomorrow so gonna be tied up next little while

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John in a pinch you can do the following in the camp site. You'll need to be careful about cleaning up any moisture afterwards. But you could turn the grill on, or oven to 300 deg or less ( won't hurt the temper in the steel), put the bearings in the heat. Buy some dry ice and a cheap cooler. Put the carrier in the cooler for a long enough period that the metal is chilled all the way through (think hours and hours not mins.) The bearings will slip right on, with maybe some gentle persuasion. Of course the problem would be getting the old bearings off the carrier first. But again I'm thinking rented bearing puller and something stout enough for the puller to push against. It would work if you had to do it that way.

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John in a pinch you can do the following in the camp site. You'll need to be careful about cleaning up any moisture afterwards. But you could turn the grill on, or oven to 300 deg or less ( won't hurt the temper in the steel), put the bearings in the heat. Buy some dry ice and a cheap cooler. Put the carrier in the cooler for a long enough period that the metal is chilled all the way through (think hours and hours not mins.) The bearings will slip right on, with maybe some gentle persuasion. Of course the problem would be getting the old bearings off the carrier first. But again I'm thinking rented bearing puller and something stout enough for the puller to push against. It would work if you had to do it that way.

The hanger/carrier bearing is mounted in rubber.

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The hanger/carrier bearing is mounted in rubber.

Missed communication on my part. For some reason I was talking / thinking we were discussing the ring gear carrier in the diff.

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Took a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJGQm-qMkGA&feature=g-upl Cant hear anything much though spinning the wheels of the shaft. Best as I can tell the sounds is coming from back left wheel. Kind of sounds like dust or stones in a disc brake ... but their drums. Think I am goin to have to pull the tire and maybe the bearings and see if rust/dirt - there was very little/no play. Still chasing.

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Uh.......... I heard nothing but bugs in the background. :)

As much as I think you posting a video is awesome, u-joints wont make noise unless they're stressed or ready to fall apart. And if they were ready to fall apart then you could easily spot the culprit just by turning the driveshaft by hand and watching for movement in the u-joint themselves. So get under there and start grabbing, turning, and tugging on stuff and see if you spot anything loose.

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These are both extreme examples of failed u-joints but at least its an example of what kind of movement you're looking for when twisting the driveshaft by hand. Sometimes the movement is minimal but just note that there should be NO movement from one u-joint cap to another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkW6qd9C8hk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHEIyscDRgM

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