Guns.....

[ISX]

Alright this is gonna get intense lol. Here we have a bunch of kids dead.......alright so I have been researching this along with all of the past massacres like this. They all play out the same, kill people then kill self. As I researched I noticed one huge flaw. You can get these damn guns as easy as a loaf of bread.. And in todays instance, just walk over and grab it and kill your mom. HOW is it that easy? I can go to walmart, buy everything I need, stuff it in my coat, go to my chemistry class of 500 people where there are no metal detectors, and clean a lot more than 20 off in no time. I mean these guys are getting semi autos with banana clips..well the columbine guys were that I read about. So then we have the one solution of everyone having guns. Well that worked in one town, but the cost would be huge for the whole USA. Every household would need one.. Then they need bullets and whatnot. But lets say Mike is there with his pistol on his side. Obviously this isn't concealed.. If I come in with my trenchcoat, how hard is it for me to turn around, pull out my gun, turn back around and take him out instantly. I mean it's not hard to look around in an empty hallway to see potential threats. Then open the door to chemistry, everyone facing forward, sitting ducks... It's just wayyyyyyyyy too easy! Todays thing was proof! You guys want more guns but I'd realllly like to hear your thoughts on how more guns will stop this crap. There are gun safes.. Even still, how hard is it for a 20 year old to overpower their mom...make her tell them the gun safe code. Plus, most of these guys are not even suspected of anything like that, so they probably already know the code. There are no metal detectors anywhere really... So yeah, anywhere is a target. It's so simple. Same with taking someones credit card, you don't have to sign anything at the gas pump, swipe and go, mine doesnt even have a pin at the pump. I was talking to a guy in the netherlands about this and he said they cannot get guns there. Says it is so hard to get a license to have one that most people don't bother. Since there are basically no guns at all there, there is only petty crap. Knife stabbings or something. To me, either everyone needs a gun, or nobody can have a gun. This mix of gun owners vs. innocents is not working. The gun owners are not responsible at all. But nor is whoever sells them. The columbine guys got that stuff easilllly. Now I know how this is gonna go, and I'm here to say I don't go either way. If nobody but cops had guns, there would still be a psycho cop abusing his power so someone would need a gun to balance the equation. So tell me, what exactly do you guys think the solution for this crap is? Other than keeping people happy...there will always be ONE psycho who pulls something like this.

[flagmanruss]

I don't know that there is an answer... something I noticed in the movie 'The Bodyguard" but not an original thought... I'm thinking that Jeff Cooper may have been my first reading of it. It's almost impossible to stop somebody who is willing to die to kill someone else. These d*mn cowards, pick the weakest, the most vulerable. If we lock up & guard the schools... and many have... the wackos shift to shopping malls or theaters. They could do the world so much good if they'd just reverse the order, starting with themselves in stead of ending there. It happened in neighboring CT, so there is no other news & I don't remain unaffected. In this case there are sadly heros. The administrators who died trying to intervene. The other teachers are geros too, who locked their class rooms... just as they drilled recently... and protected their children. Since I was on the PD, a new protocal for an active shooter. Shooter used a Glock & SigSaur 9mms recovered in the school, an AR15 found in his car. He started with his mother, found dead at their home. He's only 20, she bought the guns legally & registered to her. I am at a loss...

[Mopar1973Man]

This is one of the reason I start open carrying my gun with me. Like most criminals that have be interviewed they will not take on a target (store, person, etc) if other people are already carrying a weapons and are visible. Like you said these guys are looking for easy prey they go to schools because number 1. its a federal law that no one is allow to open carry or conceal carry on a school campus. So that means there is no resistance to the shooter he knows there is no other people with a gun to stop him. (Like a cop). Then since the average 911 response time nationwide is over 20-25 minutes you got lots of time to do something really stupid like killing people then shoot yourself. This is why I say everyone should be allow to carry since 99% of the public is unarmed the criminals know this so they prey on the weak and unarmed people.

[ISX]

This is one of the reason I start open carrying my gun with me. Like most criminals that have be interviewed they will not take on a target (store, person, etc) if other people are already carrying a weapons and are visible. Like you said these guys are looking for easy prey they go to schools because number 1. its a federal law that no one is allow to open carry or conceal carry on a school campus. So that means there is no resistance to the shooter he knows there is no other people with a gun to stop him. (Like a cop). Then since the average 911 response time nationwide is over 20-25 minutes you got lots of time to do something really stupid like killing people then shoot yourself. This is why I say everyone should be allow to carry since 99% of the public is unarmed the criminals know this so they prey on the weak and unarmed people.

Kids cannot carry... In the common school there are probably 20-30 kids per classroom and ONE teacher. So trenchcoat guy goes to class, they shut the door because it's noisy outside. Ok so the teacher has a gun, being the only one who CAN have a gun. So psycho starts with the teacher and is left with nothing but sitting ducks......Now you see the problem. Unless we have 5 guards in every classroom, the student has the advantage. I also think a lot of what you mention is just, bank robberies, holdups, petty crap that criminals do to get a pack of cigarettes. They don't want any trouble they just want their cigs. These guys doing these mass shootings are PSYCHOS, who kill themself as well. So how would it fix that? Are we to just let the 20 kids a year get shot as a small price to pay? I want a real solution to this.. They were 5 year olds......

[rancherman]

All good thoughts.^^^Since the very beginning of time, there have been 'whackos'. There is nothing new under the sun. ISX is right, ANY means possible will be used to convey a dasterdly deed. A simple baseball bat would've had similar results, A crude mustard gas can be made in minutes. Mike is correct too; just the simple fact of 'showing' a means of protecting oneself is a huge deterrant. Moral guidelines, accountability and consequences on 'how we live' have been forced out of our lives..... Thanks to the very people who will probably be leading the parade on gun control. (this time, the 'parade' is gonna be huge) I for one, have not, or ever will, 'wait, or rely on our govt. to supply me or my family with protection. The sh*tstorm that yesterday's events, and earlier Fall's shootings will really, really continue a 'tearing' of this Country. And any law that surfaces will only empower the 'bad guys' even more.This event, and anyone who has suffered a loss by the hand of a 'whacko' via gun, baseball bat, drunk driver, hijacked plane... whatever, is a terrible, terrible loss. Most of us know, Life is a gamble. There are risks out there that can't be 'written away' with a stroke of a pen...Stay 'frosty' my friends.... I have a bad feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

To go along with the argument ISX posted, (and i converse about this with you and the group with respect) I can understand your viewpoint but check this out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland check out the section about gun crime. since most have a gun that they openly carry, there are far more knife deaths. but total from all gun and knife deaths in one year there, compared to just any tool used here causing a death in the states is a drop in the ocean. unfortunately my tinfoil hat theory is that these incidents of mass murders are due to the manchurian candidates our government has created to put fear and spontaneous irrational choices to be made by the people out of said fear. the government wants our guns and what better way then to create a real reason, using the tools they dont want us to have, to push us into giving up our rights and freedoms just for security from the very government that made this happen? there are too many convenient similarities to these shootings, too many things just dont add up either. Who goes to an elementary school and does this? our government knows they will never be able to take our guns from us, so instead they will create the fear to push us to give up our guns freely. My feeling is this... With proper training, evaluation of background demmed fit to carry, proving of skills learned, as many of the citizens in this country need to bear arms without fear of reprisal if they are used in a lawful manner to defend against those that cannot for themselves. When people like this driven by whatever motive think about going on a rampage, they will be hard pressed to do it knowing that there are many individuals ready to take them down and he wont know who they are as many conceal their weapon. as we all see that most if not all of these atrocities happen in gun free zones. if an environment has no means of defense, it will be taken advantage of. we as a nation need to stop the empowerment of these idiots from doing what they will and make every environment protected with lethal force. Those children couldnt defend themselves, it is up to us to do that for them. no law or enforcement of law will keep someone from acquiring the tools needed to do as he or she is planning on doing. they are above and beyond the law and they have a means to an end. taking all guns away from everyone will just create a nation of defenseless citizens and be ruled by their government. all the while crime with guns will skyrocket. none of this is written in anger or jest, dont take anything personally

[ISX]

I think there are alternatives to gun control, I mean it isn't the gun that's the problem so much but rather the user. There is just a morality flaw flowing around and that combined with the ease of getting a gun and smuggling it anywhere mix to form a bad combination. One of the 2 needs to be rectified. I don't think obama's tears solved anything and I don't think he has any real plans either. Someone needs to step up and do something though. One thing I found a little interesting is how people in the news who didn't lose their kids were overjoyed but seemed to have little concern for those who didn't make it. I think we have become a very separated "family" and that needs to change.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

I think there are alternatives to gun control, I mean it isn't the gun that's the problem so much but rather the user. There is just a morality flaw flowing around and that combined with the ease of getting a gun and smuggling it anywhere mix to form a bad combination. One of the 2 needs to be rectified. I don't think obama's tears solved anything and I don't think he has any real plans either. Someone needs to step up and do something though. One thing I found a little interesting is how people in the news who didn't lose their kids were overjoyed but seemed to have little concern for those who didn't make it. I think we have become a very separated "family" and that needs to change.

i will agree with you, people in this country have devolved from the family mindset and is just worried about their own. and yes the gun is a convenient easy tool to commit these crimes, and if it were not there it would be sporks eventually as the tool of crime. it is the human nature driven to the breaking point with all the worlds woes and corruption on all levels that is the force behind people snapping (if in fact that is what is happening) fix the conditions of the lives we live in and you will see a change. oppression will drive people to do bad things.

[ISX]

Good points CUMMINSDSLPOWER. Personally I don't think the government has anything to do with this. People doing this aren't politically active, they are kids. The columbine thing had nothing to do with it, they just got mad at all the bullies. I think a lot of them are just having personal issues with each other and they take it out on everyone else or take it out on those who they seek revenge from. We can blame the government for everything all day but they have no bearing on my personal life at all. I can say they suck because they don't give me enough student loans but I think it's wrong to expect free money. In the end I think it's up to us as individuals to work together to solve this and ignore the crap the government does or doesn't do.

[dobienut]

Im Canada our gov't's have spent literally billions of dollars trying to bring in an active gun control system . I don't follow it alot because I don't have any, but last I heard it still hasn't passed and I think they were going to abandon the idea. Guns are here, they will always be here and if it comes a day when the legal honest person cannot go into a store and buy one, they may go without, but the underground markets will just grow and grow. If someone wants a gun bad enough, they will get one. Peolel like that guy yesterday, if he couldn't buy a gun legally, maybe he would've had a harder job getting ahold of one , but I do think he would have still gotten it somehow, just maybe taken longer. People like that are twisted in their thoughts, and maybe if a gun wasn't available, a Machete or a knife would be his next choice, but he was out to kill and I doubt he'd stop until he did kill. I think one of the biggest things "ALL" countries have to stop doing is plastering it all over the television and internet when things like this happen. Yes people should know, but I truly believe all this does is makes the next crazy thats sitting home in his house rocking back and forth talking to himself get the thought in his head of look, everyone knows that guy now and he'll be remembered. These people want people to know who they were, they want their fame whether they're here to see it or not, but they know it's going to because they're watching the other guys fame right now. I watched a bit yesterday and then had to turn it off for that reason, it angers me to think the media is promoting another psyco to act later , by reporting on the present. Also sickening to see what took place, so I couldn't handle seeing the grief...feel so bad for the parents.I wish the broadcasting regulators would really look at stopping this type of reporting...and also while they're at it, all the shows simulating murders and the real life shows showing crime cases and how they're solved. Why help the criminals out by telling them how to beat the system? It has become a sad sad world IMO

[JOHNFAK]

Guns are too easy to get too - my only comment. Kid or person gets angry and in less than 10 mins he can have guns in his hand No time to cool down and think or 2nd thoughts

[Mopar1973Man]

How about asking yourself about the "Fast and the furious" Eric Holder what about this guy? This guy was caught selling gun to Mexico to stir up gun violence along the Mexico border. More or less the Gov't creates the problem then steps in and with Gun Laws say give up your guns and all will be fine. I'm sorry but Australia already is having problems with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaDAThOHhA

[Wild and Free]

Hold on guys and look at the bigger picture. Guns should not even be the debate here or accross the nation.Our medical industry who has the government officials in their back pockets are the issue.Just throwing out the figure that probably say 40% of todays kids have been on some sort of phycotropic medication since say 3+ years old and have been shown and proven to cause more phsycological and overall health issues that it is mind boggling.Look at almost every mass shooting out there and they pretty much have one common denominator.They have all been on some kind of mental medication because everything on the planet is considered a disease or disorder..................The answer just add more pills, mix more pills in and then after brain damage that never existed because kids can't be kids anymore you wind up with these situations.............all drug induced.Look at the bigger picture guys. Call and spread the word about this to your local radio talk shows and news paper opinion sections senators and congressmen and get the issue narrowed down to the source here guys. It needs to start at the source.Let kids be kids. 99% of the issue is the bad diet and lack of having a way to naturally butrn off the energy every small critter is born with, Can't sit still and focus huh here take these pills and play this video game , It just pisses me off to no end that some parents have absolutely no common sense anymore and are open to letting their kids be a human experiment.But then there was 20+ people slashed up in an asian country by knife yesterday as well and then the guy in Wyoming who used a bow and arrow and actually used an arrow to stab one to death without even sdhooting it.Yep guns are the problem here.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

Hold on guys and look at the bigger picture. Guns should not even be the debate here or accross the nation. Our medical industry who has the government officials in their back pockets are the issue. Just throwing out the figure that probably say 40% of todays kids have been on some sort of phycotropic medication since say 3+ years old and have been shown and proven to cause more phycological and overall health issues that it is mind boggling. Look at almost every mass shooting out there and they pretty much have one common denominator. They have all been on some kind of mental medication because everything on the planet is considered a disease or disorder..................The answer just add more pills, mix more pills in and then after brain damage that never existed because kids can't be kids anymore you wind up with these situations.............all drug induced. Look at the bigger picture guys. Call and spread the word about this to your local radio talk shows and news paper opinion sections senators and congressmen and get the issue narrowed down to the source here guys. It needs to start at the source. Let kids be kids. But then there was 20+ people slashed up in an asian country by knife yesterday as well and then the guy in Wyoming who used a bow and arrow and actually used an arrow to stab one to death without even sdhooting it. Yep guns are the problem here.

if guns arent the problem then why does the media take anything dealing with guns to such an extreme coverage and nothing else? the government isnt worried about the nation revolting with knives, clubs and arrows... they have guns to curb that. i feel that removing the government from any part in the issue of guns and violence on this scale is not a good idea.

[Wild and Free]

if guns arent the problem then why does the media take anything dealing with guns to such an extreme coverage and nothing else? the government isnt worried about the nation revolting with knives, clubs and arrows... they have guns to curb that. i feel that removing the government from any part in the issue of guns and violence on this scale is not a good idea.

The government doesn't want to ackowldge the issue of drugs being the cause because every politician in gov has some ties to big pharma which funds a large portion of their election campaigns and other propaganda. Keep the focus on guns and the main issue is easily overlooked, the lamestream media is the same, probably 50% of their advertising money comes from drug commercials. They will not cut their own income streams by pointing out the root cause of all the issues, instead they look at the tool being used. Yes Government has to be in the picture but we the people have to drag them into the picture and get the corrupt crony capitalism driven politics out of government.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

The government doesn't want to ackowldge the issue of drugs being the cause because every politician in gov has some ties to big pharma which funds a large portion of their election campaigns and other propaganda. Keep the focus on guns and the main issue is easily overlooked, the lamestream media is the same, probably 50% of their advertising money comes from drug commercials. They will not cut their own income streams by pointing out the root cause of all the issues, instead they look at the tool being used. Yes Government has to be in the picture but we the people have to drag them into the picture and get the corrupt crony capitalism driven politics out of government.

agreed sir!

[stodg73]

Has anyone set a gun on a table and seen it shoot itself with no one near the gun?

[Wild and Free]

Has anyone set a gun on a table and seen it shoot itself with no one near the gun?

Not sure which way to take that comment not knowing your stance on the issue. I have seen on a couple occasions where miss fires have gone off several seconds after the trigger was pulled and one happened as the owner had just set the gun down, that was a bit of a tense moment, so actually to your comment in a literal state in a wird sense yes a gun did go off by itself.

[MnTom]

Our medical industry who has the government officials in their back pockets are the issue.

Just throwing out the figure that probably say 40% of todays kids have been on some sort of phycotropic medication since say 3+ years old and have been shown and proven to cause more phycological and overall health issues that it is mind boggling.

Look at almost every mass shooting out there and they pretty much have one common denominator.

They have all been on some kind of mental medication because everything on the planet is considered a disease or disorder..................The answer just add more pills, mix more pills in and then after brain damage that never existed because kids can't be kids anymore you wind up with these situations.............all drug induced.

Exactly, Bill. People, more and more restrictive gun laws WILL NOT WORK period. Do you really think that the criminal will abide by them? All more laws will do is make it easier for the criminal. I can take a gun, ANY gun, load it, ____ the hammer and sit in front of it as long as I want and the gun WILL NOT kill me. As the saying goes "Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people".

Most people do not realize that if you see FOUR people, ONE of them (statistically) has what is called a mental disorder. Also ONE in THREE have seen a councilor for mental issues......... The actual care for the mental issues has improved over the years, BUT, the number of people qualified to treat mental health problems has declined over the years.

Gun laws are not the answer.

[stodg73]

Any gun is loaded until you have personally unloaded it.Now setting a loaded gun on a table and waiting until it goes off, you will be waiting a very long time.With this, the gun is only a tool for whatever the person is going to do. So everyone is blaming the tool for this, not the person pulling the trigger. So now the gun is a tool, just like a wrench or screwdriver or a pen. I have argued this with lots of people and they say mostly the same thing, blame the gun, not the person who pulled the trigger. Others have said that the bullets are what kill people,yet I put a bullet in front of the person and waited about 3 minutes for it to kill someone. The bullet never moved. With these same people, I have put an unloaded gun in front of them and waited for it to kill someone, never did.So, we need to rethink about why people are so readily to blame a tool for the action of a person, not the person who did it.