Start up after long term storage or fresh rebuild first start

[mopartechnician]

Modern atf doesnt burn and actually has small metal particles in it. I would never run it in the fuel

[Mopar1973Man]

Modern atf doesnt burn and actually has small metal particles in it. I would never run it in the fuel

 

It's called ash.

[mopartechnician]

Ok so its just as bad as metal

[Guest 04Mach1]

Modern atf doesnt burn and actually has small metal particles in it. I would never run it in the fuel

It does burn. I see diesel engines start and run every day after priming fuel filters with atf. They don't sound any different than running on diesel. I was just pointing out atf is standard practice with many people and they have millions of miles on their engines and injectors without a hitch to back it up. I would get video but Bridgestone doesn't like their shops or trade secrets to be in video or photo.

I for one don't believe in additives for oils or fuels and I have never had injector failures from being dirty. Fuel tank only has pump diesel. Crankcase only has Rotella T6 with a LF16035 filter. Boxes have recommended oil and nothing else. My 12v has close to 300k with this practice and still runs strong with original injectors and HX35.

Edited December 8, 2014 by 04Mach1

[Mopar1973Man]

Ummm... Here is ash and what it will do to your injectors. Yes. It can plug or mess with injectors spray.

 

[Guest 04Mach1]

Tell that to the guy that's got 1.5 million miles on his Cat C15 with original pressure pump and injectors after its had hundreds of fuel filter changes using atf to prime the filters. For the record Caterpillar injectors require filtration of 2 micron where Cummins injectors can pass trash a little bigger.

I don't personally practice atf in the fuel on my diesel trucks but I don't think the info said on here is entirely accurate for atf.

[Wild and Free]

Some people can play Russian Roulette longer than others but eventually at some point the end result is the same.

Cummins injectors can not pass any particles any bigger than anyone else , pretty much a zero tolerance system they may not have factory filtration quite as fine as cat but do not think the injectors can handle it.

 

I will post pics of the innovation we came up with at work to prime fuel systems of rigs with no primer pump system. As far as OTR rigs we have the hardest time with the Volvo engines in our new service trucks, we have to use our primer unit to get these going. It is a Cat electric primer pump with 2 micron cat filter head with leads we hook to any 12/24v power source ,  we then use Cat pressure tap fittings tied into the fuel systems to prime them up.

 

Biggest difference between your shop and mine is our engines run about 10-20X more to repair or replace and we try to get the most life from things as we can without adding variables that can cost a 250K rebuild as a result of old school thinking from what we used to do in the old days.

[Guest 04Mach1]

Volvo / Mack have a hand pump on the fuel filter housing. I'd have to say the Paccar MX13, International Maxxforce 13, and the Detroit DD15 are the difficult engines we commonly service. Next would be the Cummins ISX because the lift pump failure rate is rather high. Most of the hard start and priming issues are taken of with a Davco Shop Pro FXP.

[Wild and Free]

I have to correct myself, it is the Mercedes engine in a Fr8liner that gives us the biggest headache and then as you said the detroits second we have issues with in our service trucks, don't have an OTR  truck with a Volvo engine, but we do have an articulated Volvo off road truck.

[Guest 04Mach1]

Correct there on the MBE. I find on those is to remove fuel tank cap, remove filter, install new cartridge, fill with fuel to bottom of threads, install filter cap, start engine and high idle for a few minutes, then install fuel tank cap. We have very few problems with MBE engines following this process. We see both the MBE 906 & MBE 4000 quite often.

[Dieselfuture]

What's wrong with filing filters with fuel? How do you know if tranny fluid doesn't have any crap in it. If it's such a big deal set up some sort of portable filter from 5 gallon can and run fuel through 2 micron filter to fill a filter for the truck. I might be missing a point here.

[Wild and Free]

What's wrong with filing filters with fuel? How do you know if tranny fluid doesn't have any crap in it. If it's such a big deal set up some sort of portable filter from 5 gallon can and run fuel through 2 micron filter to fill a filter for the truck. I might be missing a point here.

The chance of introducing dirt directly into the fuel system unfiltered through the center of the filter which is where the clean fluid is, most fill filters through the center hole not knowing how a filter works. If one can very carefully fill the filter via the outer ring from a known clean container without getting any dust dirt or debris which is about impossible as the damaging stuff can't be seen with the naked eye. A human hair is 10 micron in diameter just for reference.

 

I have seen tools or a funnel type contraption someone sells that actually plugs off the center hole while filling the outer area of the filter.

[Guest 04Mach1]

Yep. Most reputable shops will prime filters with filtered fuel. My shop for example uses a FS19624 pre filter and 1R0749 CAT for final filter on our 250 gallon fuel boys. Our fuel comes from a reputable distributor and you should see how nasty the filters look after 2 weeks of filtering brand new diesel for filter priming. As for oil... Eh oil out of the jug is pretty clean. Most common issue with oil filter priming is the foil from the bottle is not completely removed and winds up in the filter causing oil channel plugging and starvation. Another issue I see is people don't have clean hands when handling the new oil filters or pouring in the new oil which increases the chance of oil contamination.

[rancherman]

I figure,  if  the fluid is  clean.. It better be,  it's  right out of the barrel!   (AND THE  MEANS OF GETTING IT INTO THE FILTER ARE CLEAN) ..  why not.      after all,    a  blob  of  crap  that could fall into the  center post hole  (on  vertical  filters...'open end up'  will fall into that hole  regardless if  it's full of  oil, fuel, etc.  So  either way,  you're screwed. 

re;  I agree,  dirt  in the center hole isn't good.   All I'm saying is,   clean fluid  won't   make it  any harder or easier   for a blob  to get in there.

This of course,   snaking a  new filter  down past  a cluttered  engine compartment... holding it  so   debris  from  surrounding   hoses, brackets, etc  doesn't  fall on top of  exposed  filter.    I suppose  'here'  you could  cover the new filter with a  baggie,   and  slip it off  at the last second before threading it up. 

I CUSS  the perkins  and  it's  inverted  oil filters..  makes  a heck of a mess  when changing.  Impossible to  'pre fill'   But   it's  impossible   for  a blob of  crap to fall off the  engine into the filter too.      I've been  power washing    a little   before  this  whole process these days.

I never liked the idea of  'hitting'  an empty filter  with  full flow oil,  without oil on the backside of the  filter media.     upon  restarting  there will be  almost instant  'wham'  from the  OP.   That's a pretty good  jolt on a  hollow, folded up  piece of paper.      Put  oil on the backside,  and  it  would be  'supported'.

I guess I  prefill  all of the one's  I have that can be prefilled.     Fill the center post,  let it perculate up through the  outboard holes.  Takes  several minutes  and  refills  for my  larger filters. 

   To each his own

[ISX]

I fill in the center hole too.  Everything is perfectly clean and I too power wash it beforehand.  The hole is still exposed to everything so the chance of debris is like rancherman said, going past the hoses and other crap trying to get it to the side of the engine block.  If thats all power washed, not much of a problem.  The stupid individual valve covers probably pose 100x more problem as tons of crap gets between them, you take the valve cover off and all that dirt falls in the engine.  Thats why I power wash it all if I even touch it anymore.  Way more chances of dirt intrusion elsewhere than an oil filter from my perspective.  

[Wild and Free]

lol

Posted this in the wrong thread first, copy and pasted here now.

 

Here is our shop fuel primer setup.

We pull fuel from a clean fuel can. This is a CAT electric fuel primer pump / filter head assembly with a 10 micron CAT water separator filter, this unit is used on most pieces of new CAT equipment.

 

 

Just for reference The CAT part # for this medium sized engines primer/ WS filter kit is 206-5756.

The hoses and stand and electrical was built here on site.

[Guest 04Mach1]

nifty idea. Pretty much the same idea as the Davco Shop Pro I use.

http://www.davco.com/shoppro.html

[MoparFreak1988]

It is alive

20141217_1635351.mp4 

 

[rancherman]

'bout fell outta the  chair here!!!    talk about  vertigo!  LOL,      

 

Sounds  good! 

[AH64ID]

Pretty cool!!

 

How many miles/hours were on the oil before it sat?

 

If the oil was new when it sat it was good to leave it, if it had more than a few minutes on it I would have changed it.. but that's just me. Oil starts to break down as soon as it gets some run time, and 18 months of sitting is worth changing IMHO.

 

 

 

 

 

ATF is BAD, no if's and's or but's about it.. do NOT put modern ATF in fuel, its designed specifically not to burn.

 

Cat does have some great fuel filters, but the tightest rating they have is 4um with a standard that calls for 3um. 2um is an old standard that is no longer used. The Donaldson crosses are often rated slightly better, but nonetheless Cat final filters are great.

 

Cat f/w sep's also have a lower water separation rating than other filters, which is odd considering their great final filtration ratings.