Teardown and Rebuild

[TFaoro]

Looks like you had a debris issue. Really possibly when filling the oil filter during oil change. Anything that gets into that center holes while you pouring oil in the filter will be instantly sent to the oil cooling jets and/or the bearings.

 

Possibly a oil filter went into bypass mode because of over extending oil changes? Cheap oil filter?

I guess that's part of the problem with buying a used pickup... I don't know exactly what the PO did with it.

As for me I can tell you I change the oil every 5,000 miles, and I always use napa oil filters. 

A couple pages back there was a metal piece that I posted pictures of. That could have been it, or it might not have been it's hard to tell.

 

Yikes!

Looks like a lube issue, but hard to say with just pics.

Pics do make it hard. I don't know how to get them any better though!

 

Looks like a mix of adhesion and adhesive wear but hard to tell from pics totally. When looking for issues one needs to lay all bearings out from 1-6 both mains and rods to see the big picture of wear patterns which can tell a better story.

Abrasive is foreign debris entry into the lube system

Adhesive wear is the result of lube issues and can be caused by many different things including over speed, fuel or coolant dilution, oil level wrong oil  viscosity, additives, misalignment.

All of the other bearings look perfect. They may have a few very tiny scratches that are barely visible to the eye, but only the thrust bearing was torn up like it is.

[CSM]

After doing some searching, it seems like thrust bearing failure on manual transmission trucks isn't unheard of.

I was reading on CF that there is a new style of thrust bearing that's improved.

[TFaoro]

After doing some searching, it seems like thrust bearing failure on manual transmission trucks isn't unheard of.

I was reading on CF that there is a new style of thrust bearing that's improved.

Hmmm, but was it the inner part of the thrust bearing that was torn up? Or was it the outside that the crank pushes against?

[Greenlee]

This is a great post, you did a great job documenting the tear-down using pictures with descriptions. I made it to the 3rd page, but I keep going back and rereading all that has been added. I have waited a long time to see someone do a tear down. Hope the issue with the knock is not too serious allowing you to get your engine back together with the mods you want to add. Putting down 500 horses with a 5 speed, when do you notice the change when going through the gears, is it by the time you shift into 3rd to 5th? When you start out in 1st to 2nd is it pretty normal compared to stock? Don't bother answering this until you get done with your build, don't want to take you off the subject matter you are dealing with. Thanks for sharing all of this.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

looks like my bearings when i rebuilt last year.

 

something got in it and from now on i check the filter inside as something may have dropped in it, i dunno...

[Greenlee]

Close up.

 

Beautiful job, With enough elbow grease you could put your younger brother to work on the side for any Forum Members who would like to see this on their trucks lol. With what you would charge you could be buying built crate engines.

[AH64ID]

I thought the common thrust bearing failures where on the thrust portion and not the location noted above. 

[Greenlee]

I thought the common thrust bearing failures where on the thrust portion and not the location noted above. 

Was there a picture showing the thrust bearing?

[AH64ID]

Was there a picture showing the thrust bearing?

 

The nasty bearing pictured in post #137. 

[CSM]

That's correct. The typical wear is on the thrust surface.

How was the thrust surface?

[Greenlee]

The nasty bearing pictured in post #137. 

I remember seeing it, I didn't recognize it being a thrust bearing. It's a lot of work to record and document all of the pictures and comments put into this tear down.

[TFaoro]

Alright the block and the crank were dropped off at the machine shop today. They said the crank looked pretty good for how bad the bearing looked. He thinks he can polish it out, so that will save me some money!

I will also be going with the marine pistons. They look like they are higher quality than the OEM, and they are made to take a beating! The tops and bowls are ceramic coated, and there is another steel ring cast into the piston next to the second compression ring. Hopefully I'll find out an eta tomorrow or wednesday.

 

I ordered one of these before I stuff the HVAC box back in http://www.heatertreater.net/magento/dodge/ram/95-02/dodge-ram-95-02.html I'd hate to put it together and have the blend door quit working. All other HVAC parts should be here Wednesday or Thursday.

 

 

This is a great post, you did a great job documenting the tear-down using pictures with descriptions. I made it to the 3rd page, but I keep going back and rereading all that has been added. I have waited a long time to see someone do a tear down. Hope the issue with the knock is not too serious allowing you to get your engine back together with the mods you want to add. Putting down 500 horses with a 5 speed, when do you notice the change when going through the gears, is it by the time you shift into 3rd to 5th? When you start out in 1st to 2nd is it pretty normal compared to stock? Don't bother answering this until you get done with your build, don't want to take you off the subject matter you are dealing with. Thanks for sharing all of this.

As for noticing the change with that much power you can't really tell in first because you can't load the engine very hard and make the turbo spool. It starts to show in second where it takes off hard from a dead stop, then 3rd 4th and 5th are WAY different. If the roads are wet at all or the temperature is cold it'll spin the tires in 5th doing 70mph. It really is pretty crazy the difference.

 

Thaks for the compliments on the aluminum! Well worth it to me. My brother doesn't have the paitence for that. He's actually older than me too... he's 25 and I'm 21.

 

looks like my bearings when i rebuilt last year.

 

something got in it and from now on i check the filter inside as something may have dropped in it, i dunno...

Was your crank scored at all? I'm surprised you didn't have it at least polished if it was.

 

That's correct. The typical wear is on the thrust surface.

How was the thrust surface?

Thrust surface looked good! No abnormal wear.

 

I remember seeing it, I didn't recognize it being a thrust bearing. It's a lot of work to record and document all of the pictures and comments put into this tear down.

I edited the post so it now says thrust bearing!

[Mopar1973Man]

Being its only the one bearing that is damaged the I would have to say it most likely debris introduced during oil change time. That one bearing was the one that took the debris. Being that all other bearing are untouched I wouldn't think it oil or pressure related.

 

Kind of like how I destroyed a good turbo.

[Greenlee]

Alright the block and the crank were dropped off at the machine shop today. They said the crank looked pretty good for how bad the bearing looked. He thinks he can polish it out, so that will save me some money!

I will also be going with the marine pistons. They look like they are higher quality than the OEM, and they are made to take a beating! The tops and bowls are ceramic coated, and there is another steel ring cast into the piston next to the second compression ring. Hopefully I'll find out an eta tomorrow or wednesday.

 

I ordered one of these before I stuff the HVAC box back in http://www.heatertreater.net/magento/dodge/ram/95-02/dodge-ram-95-02.html I'd hate to put it together and have the blend door quit working. All other HVAC parts should be here Wednesday or Thursday.

 

 

As for noticing the change with that much power you can't really tell in first because you can't load the engine very hard and make the turbo spool. It starts to show in second where it takes off hard from a dead stop, then 3rd 4th and 5th are WAY different. If the roads are wet at all or the temperature is cold it'll spin the tires in 5th doing 70mph. It really is pretty crazy the difference.

 

Thaks for the compliments on the aluminum! Well worth it to me. My brother doesn't have the paitence for that. He's actually older than me too... he's 25 and I'm 21.

 

Was your crank scored at all? I'm surprised you didn't have it at least polished if it was.

 

Thrust surface looked good! No abnormal wear.

 

I edited the post so it now says thrust bearing!

It's been so long since I was doing a rebuild of any kind. If I can remember that far back it was sometime during the early 1990's. You and your brother made short order of pulling your Cummins apart, made it look too easy. This will be one post that will have the attention of anyone who owns a Cummins 24 valve. Without being nosy, I don't want you to disclose the money it took but I would like to know if you or someone else knows what would it take to build a FORD, DURAMAX, or any newer Common Rail engine including a newer Cummins? I understand that any rebuild is going to cost you but aren't the 12 valve and 24 valve cheaper to drive in terms of maintenance?

[Wild and Free]

My 3rd gen 05 CR has been a fraction the cost of my 02 24v to drive and maintain. Not nearly as many upgrades needed to keep them driving nice.

Lots heavier frame, tighter body with less creaks and groans, heavier drive train, interior is a wash. Ease of maintenance I think is easier too. Less quirks overall. As far as the 5.9 overhaul they all would be a wash, the new 6.7 would be higher and labor would be more as well due to the extra emissions equipment and such.

[AH64ID]

Which brand piston are you going with?

[TFaoro]

Being its only the one bearing that is damaged the I would have to say it most likely debris introduced during oil change time. That one bearing was the one that took the debris. Being that all other bearing are untouched I wouldn't think it oil or pressure related.

 

Kind of like how I destroyed a good turbo.

Lol clams hurt pretty bad!

 

It's been so long since I was doing a rebuild of any kind. If I can remember that far back it was sometime during the early 1990's. You and your brother made short order of pulling your Cummins apart, made it look too easy. This will be one post that will have the attention of anyone who owns a Cummins 24 valve. Without being nosy, I don't want you to disclose the money it took but I would like to know if you or someone else knows what would it take to build a FORD, DURAMAX, or any newer Common Rail engine including a newer Cummins? I understand that any rebuild is going to cost you but aren't the 12 valve and 24 valve cheaper to drive in terms of maintenance?

An engine rebuild is going to cost about the same for all of them. It just depends on which go-fast parts you put into the motor. When this is all done I'll add up the cost. I don't care if everyone knows.

As for maintenance that depends what you're talking about. The fuel system on the 12/24valves are cheaper to replace parts on. 

On the other hand 2nd gens tend to nickle and dime people for little repairs here an there. The younges ones are 13 years old! A CR can be cheaper to maintain IF all preventative measures are taken first (filtration mainly.)

 

Which brand piston are you going with?

Not sure. I'll find out tomorrow.

 

Right now I'm sort of stuck in a pickle. The machine shop needs to get the rebuild kit in but I don't know how thick of a gasket to use until I pop the pistons in and measure the protrusiton. Hopefully I can get a kit without the head gasket.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

yes it was scored on 2 main journals, very very shallow gouges and if i didnt look close i would have missed them, but they polished out perfectly. 

 

Was your crank scored at all? I'm surprised you didn't have it at least polished if it was.

[Greenlee]

My 3rd gen 05 CR has been a fraction the cost of my 02 24v to drive and maintain. Not nearly as many upgrades needed to keep them driving nice.

Lots heavier frame, tighter body with less creaks and groans, heavier drive train, interior is a wash. Ease of maintenance I think is easier too. Less quirks overall. As far as the 5.9 overhaul they all would be a wash, the new 6.7 would be higher and labor would be more as well due to the extra emissions equipment and such.

I want to make certain I am looking at owning a Cummins for the right reasons. My first diesel was an 06 GMC SLT Crew Cab/Leather. Nothing was cheap as far as adding performance parts. Stock with no tune I got 17MPG combined city and highway. The first tune I used was from Duratune, It brought me up about 60 HP and 18 MPG city and 23 MPG highway, with better results depending on direction and wind. Very fast truck when I got done with it, very Dependable to drive. I was a Pipeline Inspector when I bought it so I had it everywhere off road you can imagine. Had to rethink the income once I was forced to retire. My reason for buying the 24 valve was comparing costs of injectors, turbos, exhaust systems, and so forth was the Cummins was not only a million mile motor but had  lower maintenance requirements to drive. Maybe I am off on the way I am thinking about this and the main reason you buy any Diesel is because you like it and the way it drives doesn't matter. Maybe my retirement has slowed my brain down too much.

[Wild and Free]

It is truly hard to knock a Duramax as they are very good engine, I am more of an old inline diesel guy myself, if not for that I would not be looking away from a d-max.