Well seasoned school bus mechanic tells me when they get somebody new changing oil it's only about 2 weeks till they stop filling up new filter with oil before threading on new filter without prefilling.  Interesting part to me was no failures that he knows of.  I fill mine but wondering if really necessary. Other than manual says so.  

Do you prefill?

I'm not sure who called them evil damaging products. 

 

There are known potentials with all oil, more so with dino. Synthetic oils are known to reverse some of those potential issues... all I am saying is an extra filter if you change from one to the other isn't a bad idea. It's not going to be needed for most, but it's cheap insurance. 

I too disagree with the statement that syn oil

On 10/16/2018 at 5:46 AM, AH64ID said:

 

Donaldson DBL7349. It's a 15µ absolute filter, vs the stratapore at 25µ absolute.

 

What does the  "µ "   stand for?  I googled and cant find the info

 

So a 15µ absolute filters finner particles than a 25µ absolute ?

 

 

.

7 minutes ago, GSP7 said:

What does the  "µ "   stand for?  I googled and cant find the info?

Micron

I'll admit your right extra filter change is no harm there. 

 

45 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

If you're cleaning a dirty motor the filter will plug sooner, so it won't last as long.

 

Yeah my own words, but first where did the dirty engine come from? 

 

14 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

There are known potentials with all oil, more so with dino.

 

So with that statement, this potential issue can be found with synthetics too? 

 

Just chalk it up to as long as you keep the oil changed these "potential problems" are nill at best regardless if you use petroleum oil or synthetic. This is the only thing I want to point out. 

 

Also, I'm base my finding on all the hundreds of engines I've worked on from gasoline to diesel engine. Not just my own truck but all the trucks and cars even motorcycles even small engines. I've pulled the valve covers on and changed valve cover gaskets, adjusted valve lash, etc. remember I work on a lot of different vehicles and engines. 

 

In truth what you speak of @AH64ID is pure owner abuse where someone doesn't change oil or changes extremely late constantly. I've seen a few engines like this but extremely rare. The whole fact of finding an engine with sludge or debris from oil issues is extremely rare. 

 

Like the photos below I tend to watch what other shop mechanics run into... Yes, it does exist but first you must abuse the engine.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, GSP7 said:

I too disagree with the statement that syn oil

 

What does the  "µ "   stand for?  I googled and cant find the info

 

So a 15µ absolute filters finner particles than a 25µ absolute ?

 

 

.

 

As stated it is micron, or 1/1,000,000 of a meter. 

 

Yes a 15µ filter will catch finer particles than a 25µ filter. 

 

58 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah my own words, but first where did the dirty engine come from? 

IF you're engine has sludge/dirty then it will occur. If it doesn't, then no harm. 

 

Quote

 

So with that statement, this potential issue can be found with synthetics too? 

 

Yes, but it takes a LOT of neglect with synthetics. 

 

Quote

 

Just chalk it up to as long as you keep the oil changed these "potential problems" are nill at best regardless if you use petroleum oil or synthetic. This is the only thing I want to point out. 

 

For the most part, yes this is very true. You could run into issues with dino oil with modified engines, or if engine oil temps get too high. 

 

Quote

In truth what you speak of @AH64ID is pure owner abuse where someone doesn't change oil or changes extremely late constantly. I've seen a few engines like this but extremely rare. The whole fact of finding an engine with sludge or debris from oil issues is extremely rare. 

 

It's not always abuse, but with modern oils and filters it's moving more into the abuse catergory. 

 

Unless you consider modification abuse. 

 

I think the most common cause of sludge is going too long on oil, time wise, with acceptable mileage... such as 9 months and 3,000 miles; as well as short trips where the oil doesn't get to temp. 

 

Quote

Like the photos below I tend to watch what other shop mechanics run into... Yes, it does exist but first you must abuse the engine.

 

 

That's an extreme case! It doesn't have to get that far to cause issues. 

 

Many times the small amount of sludge buidup may be present, but not causing any issues. The issues arise with an oil change to a different oil, commonly synthetic, and it cleans up the sludge and seals that have dried up are now exposed to oil and leak. 

Edited October 17, 20186 yr by AH64ID

Thank you @AH64ID...  

Very interesting discussion gentlemen. It is good to see two folks of differing opinions have a sane discussion. Now if we could just get congress the learn that ability they they might be able to get something done for the country. 

7 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Like the photos below I tend to watch what other shop mechanics run into... Yes, it does exist but first you must abuse the engine.

 

 

 

 

I saw a chrysler 2.7 the guy let his kid drive around and he would give him some cash to change the oil every couple months. Well the kid never had the oil changed and spent it on who knows what. They estimated it to have about 30 or 40k miles on a single oil change, nothing added and no leaks in need of repair. And it seized the engine up solid.

The sludge was equally as bad as these pictures. It was so bad in fact that they actually had to replace the timing cover, valve covers, and oil pan because they couldnt even chip away at the sludge. It had turned most of its oil into sludge and basically ran itself dry because there wasnt enough to circulate through the system.

I never heard if it was conventional or synthetic oil... But it was bad. There was just a fraction of an inch of space between the sludge and timing chain. The valve cover sludge had a valvetrain imprint in it. 

 

7 hours ago, AH64ID said:

Many times the small amount of sludge buidup may be present, but not causing any issues. The issues arise with an oil change to a different oil, commonly synthetic, and it cleans up the sludge and seals that have dried up are now exposed to oil and leak. 

 

This is the more common way that someone will see problems, they buy a used car that was ran into the ground with cheap oil changes and the new owner decides to use synthetic on a car with thousands of miles whatever sludge or debris is left or stuck to the seals will get cleaned by the synthetic oil thus causing a leak. Its just the way it is.... I've never heard of it happening the other way around and there is not real set point at which you should never use synthetic its just a matter of each engines condition

OOU.....

 

10 minutes ago, GSP7 said:

OOU.....

 

Please tell me that’s not a Cummins. 

Yeah that's a cummins all right,,, You dont know what that is ?

8 hours ago, GSP7 said:

Yeah that's a cummins all right,,, You dont know what that is ?

Dang that’s sad. It’s obviously not a 24 valve and Iv never had a valve cover off anything else. Obviously it’s a 12 valve. 

 

This happens to be a Chevy small block of some sort. Like 350 CID. The adjustable rockers and the valve cover bolt holes are the give away.

Just now, Mopar1973Man said:

 

This happens to be a Chevy small block of some sort. Like 350 CID. The adjustable rockers and the valve cover bolt holes are the give away.

Actually it looks almost identical to a Ford 300 In-line 6. 

5 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

This happens to be a Chevy small block of some sort. Like 350 CID. The adjustable rockers and the valve cover bolt holes are the give away.

 

5 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Actually it looks almost identical to a Ford 300 In-line 6. 

 

My first guess was small block chevy but somethings telling me smallblock ford. Im assuming in the top right is spark plug wires? So was this taken of the passenger front part of the head or drivers rear part of the head? Distributor location says it all. Has to be v8 or maybe v6 because you can see what looks like the intake manifold behind the rockers.

I'm Shocked

 

I thought everyone knew the infamous Small Block Chevy !         

 

 

 

.

 

Edited October 18, 20186 yr by GSP7

Never been a chevy fan. Nothing personal just never liked them. I had a 2015 2500 with a 6.0. Awesome truck it was a great work truck and it ran really well . Sounded awesome. But gas mileage sucked and tow mode used every last rpm that thing had. Deccellerating with a trailer down a hill it would downshift and hold itself at redline just about. I sold it to get this diesel.

OK kids,,,, Guess what this one is       

 

Flat head something or other. Wait, I haven't been a kid for 35 years. Can I still play?

Flat head Ford, 239 maybe.