Dynamic

I can tell you that my 6.4 Ford, with just tuning and deletes, has more power than pretty much any Dodge I've driven (and I've driven a LOT of them). I know this is a Dodge forum (hey...I still own two Dodges), but I don't miss my Cummins very much when I'm towing!

It definitely sounds like you have an electrical issue. Is it starting in 1st, and then not upshifting, or is it starting in 3rd?

The billet front cover is all about flex due to the converter clutch pushing against the inside of it. When the converter clutch applies, the apply piston simply pushes the disc(s) against the inside of the front cover, locking the turbine to the front cover. With increased pressures, the force with which the disc(s) are pressed against the cover increases also. Under heavy apply pressure, the stock stamped steel covers will flex, which makes the apply surface that the disc(s) is pressing against begin to take on a cone shape, reducing its apply surface. A billet cover helps to prevent (if not totally eliminate) this flexing and coning. Converter ballooning can and does still occur, even with a billet cover. Ballooning typically takes place on the impeller side (back) of the converter, in the hub area, and is the result of excessive converter charge pressure. In a 47RE or 48RE transmission, the converter charge pressure is regulated (to about 130-135 psi) by the switch valve in the valve body. Much of the time, in forward gears, line pressure is not high enough to need any regulation (assuming a stock valve body here), but in reverse, where line pressures can be quite high even in stock form, this regulation is extremely important. Imagine backing a large trailer up an incline. You'll likely need a fairly significant amount of throttle to make things move. This will drive the line pressure to pretty significant levels, and without regulation from the switch valve, your converter will see ALL of that pressure, leading to ballooning around the hub. Now, enter the myriad of different "shift kits" and valve bodies that are on the market. Pretty much all of them will increase line pressure across the board at least a moderate amount, which is no problem, assuming an active regulator at the switch valve. BUT, I see many valve bodies come across my bench with either the switch valve land ground down (ie. our good friends at Transgo), or the balance hole in the separator plate blocked off. Both of these "mods" will remove the switch valve's ability to regulate converter charge pressure. Couple this with an increase in line pressure (sometimes a substantial increase), and you've go a recipe for a ballooned converter.

I know that this is a SUPER old post, but I wanted to clear up some misinformation... A stock 47RE valve body will lock up, if commanded, in 2nd gear. It will not lock up in MANUAL 2nd... The lockup valve in the lower valve body is hydraulically prevented from stroking when manual 2nd is selected. The process of using JB Weld, epoxy, a bolt, aluminum rod...or whatever, that guys are referring to in this thread is for blocking the passage that provides that signal to the lockup valve. Besides blocking that passage, there should also be an exhaust passage added downstream of the barrier. The best way to block this passage is to use a separator plate that does not have the passage in it in the first place. Carry on...

Yeah, you're dealing with the factory programming, which is not that great. Your situation is exacerbated by your gearing. It is my understanding that Chrysler received the engine assemblies from Cummins complete with electronics (APPS, ECM, etc.), and ready to drop in as a pre-configured unit. The ECM simply outputs a 0-5V TPS signal (based off of the APPS signal the ECM sees) and crank sensor signal (to reference engine RPM) to the PCM for use in controlling the transmission. There are a myriad of different - let's call them "anomalies"...to be polite - that I would find "work-arounds" to if I was a smarter guy. This is definitely one of them. I have, on one truck that I built a transmission for, played around with some fixed resistors on the TPS signal line to delay the shift into OD, which did work, but that truck was a 12 valve with a 47RH, so I was just manipulating OD and TCC lockup. I would surmise that the same could be accomplished on a 47RE with some ingenuity.

Set the TV cable so that your WOT 1-2 shift occurs at 2900 rpm. It sounds like it's quite a bit too tight right now.

In my neck of the woods. Moscow/Pullman area...just south of here. My parents had a '70 Bronco when I was a kid. I remember pictures of us crossing the North Fork of the Clearwater River in that Bronco before the dam was completed and the reservoir filled. The area where we were crossing is now several hundred feet underwater...

Sadly, many "built" valve bodies are simply pre-"shift kitted" bodies. And, yes, a "shift kit" will raise your line pressure a bit, and firm up the shifts. That's actually the super easy part. Guys will "kit" their valve body, feel the shifts a little more positively than they did before, and drive off satisfied. And, if that was your goal, then mission accomplished... But these transmissions need quite a bit more pressure than simply putting in a heavier PR spring will give you. This is especially true when guys are using tuners and "chips" to bump their power. While these products are great, and work well, what ends up happening is that your engine will make significantly more power for a given amount of throttle pedal travel that it did with OEM calibrations alone. So, as a result, you end up doing all of your daily driving (your non-"spirited" driving, if you will) with significantly less throttle applied than before. The thing is that your transmission relies on throttle pedal travel (read TV cable movement) to adjust its operating pressure to handle the torque being applied to it. So you end up with a line pressure to torque ratio that is far from favorable. The stiffer PR springs that come in "shift kits" are a step in the right direction in that they do boost line pressure, but it's not nearly enough to reliably handle what you're asking it to do. Developing an optimal pressure curve requires, first of all, an understanding of how these valve bodies control pressure, which is different than pretty much anything else in the transmission world. But suffice it to say that manipulating the hydraulic signals that act on the PR valve is where all of the magic happens in a well built custom valve body. There are several ways to do this, depending upon your end goal, but that's what is necessary to achieve a really good pressure curve. Once you achieve a desirable pressure curve, you will need to deal with the shift and lockup calibrations. If you tried to use stock shift calibrations with an optimal pressure curve, it would, at the very least, be quite unpleasant to drive. Specially designed separator plates with substantially undersized calibration orifices are really the only solution to this dilemma. Again...stuff that a "shift kit" doesn't address. As far as other things a "shift kit" won't give you (at least in a 47RE, which is what we're discussing here), the list would include: ability to lock the converter in any forward gear (including manual 2nd), ability to perform a locked 4-3 downshift, performing an earlier and more positive 3-2 downshift, some cooling and lube control mods, revised boost valve strategy, etc... Why don't I like Transgo in the Chrysler VB? A few reasons... Reason #1: biggest in my book is that they have you grind the land on the switch valve, which effectively removes its ability to regulate converter charge pressure. This is most significant at high throttle settings in reverse, where pressures can easily exceed 250 psi, especially with the stiffer spring you just put in there. This can (and does) balloon torque converters. Reason #2: I don't at all care for the way that they reverse the function of the OD accumulator, and then give you their crappy springs to put in there to try and control OD apply. Personally, with the right calibrations, I find it much easier to control OD apply (especially at high throttle settings) with the OEM style hydraulic accumulator. Reason #3: they remove the function of the part-throttle portion of the 2-3 valve train. This auxiliary portion of the valve body removes TV oil from the 3-2 valve train once a certain amount of governor pressure (road speed) is achieved. I prefer to leave this active for driveability reasons. Reason #4: their manual valve is not nearly as effective as others on the market. I simply do not care for their manual valve. Superior's valve is the best on the market, in my opinion... Sorry for the novel...

"Shift kits" just leave a bunch of performance and functionality on the table, especially in a 47RE valve body. But I digress...

If you are set on a "shift kit", I would not use the Transgo...

Oh man... Don't get me started on "shift kits"...! Ugh........

Buying a decent truck here in the NW is such a pain in the butt... Everybody thinks they're worth a fortune, and they're all beat to crap. When I bought my Ford, I must have looked at 25 or 30 different trucks. My wife and I even drove 4-1/2 hours (each way) to Butte, MT with a fist full of cash to buy a truck that, by all indicators, seemed great. I didn't have to look at it for more than 2 minutes to realize that I didn't even want it...at any price. I drove all the way home, with that same fist full of cash. Now, granted, I'm completely anal about my vehicles, but come on...! I ended up expanding my search area and finding my current truck (2008 Ford F-350 King Ranch) down in Upland, CA. It was in immaculate condition, no rust or corrosion, and even after figuring the air fare and the fuel cost to drive it home, it was still $2000 cheaper (and 3 years newer) than the one in Butte, MT...

On a 12 valve, I set the TV cable so that the WOT 1-2 shift point occurs at about 2750-2800 rpm. If it's early, tighten the cable, if it's late, loosen it. That is the best, down and dirty method that I have found for getting your TV in right range.

Yes, we've corresponded about this issue. He has a bad converter...

I'm glad you got it sorted out. I actually see this on a very regular basis on the 24 valve 2nd gens. It would be interesting to know whether they need better diodes, or better cooling for the diodes that are being used.

Haha... That was just after the windstorm blew the siding panels off of my shop. Too funny... I also see that I was wearing my Sunday best that day! Nice...

We tore everything down for inspection, installed the billet input shaft, and then upgraded the forward, direct and OD brake clutches to the Raybestos GPZ's (which adds one more disc to the direct than the Stage 2 had). Then we recalibrated the valve body and put the new separator plates in it.

If you've got a healthy transmission to start with (all friction elements still serviceable), then a valve body and torque converter package will make a HUGE difference in your truck's performance. I do packages like this for guys all the time.

I wouldn't worry too much about your alternator. Your transducer code is giving you the 2nd or 3rd gear starts. If it's setting a 1763, I'd be curious to know: 1) how much line pressure this 650 hp transmission is running, and 2) what they did in the valve body to protect the transducer from that pressure, and what they did to prevent an overpressure code. The OEM plastic transducers won't put up with a tremendous amount of pressure before they fail.

Sounds good. Let me know when you're ready...!

Just a difference of opinion on which parts work well, which parts don't, and how certain things are best accomplished. That's all...

I have mixed opinions on Suncoast stuff, but I'll keep them to myself...

If you're just going to be using an off-the-shelf "shift kit", then yes, I would probably recommend a billet shaft. One of the (many) reasons that I dislike most shift kits in the 4 speed Dodges is because their TCC lockup is generally pretty harsh, which can break a stock shaft. If it were my project, I would save the money on the input shaft and put it toward a properly calibrated custom valve body instead. Then you won't need the billet shaft (at your power level), and you'll get the benefit of all of the things that a good valve body gives you that a shift kit won't, especially in a 47RE....

Yep. I see it fairly often...

Typical Cummins Forum... Everybody knows everything.