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Super B Update


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So I installed a bd super b 57/65/14 (s300g) a couple weeks ago and have put a couple hundred miles on it so far. Towed a dump trailer this week put some good highway miles on it, it wasn't a huge improvement over my holset wh1c 58/60/14 non gated. Spool is a litter better, fuel economy is a little better, it whistles louder and pulls a little better. The biggest gain is the drop in egts, dropped a couple hundred degrees. I still like it and it is an improvement but not what I was hoping for. The 60mm cover and wheel on my wh1c lit faster and pulled harder...but surged like crazy, hence it being sold. I'll report back this weekend after I abuse the super b this weekend, now that it's broken in :)

Oh ya, install was a pain. The waste gate arm was hitting the oil drain tube, even after clocking the center section in every way. I had to heat the tube with a torch and used pliers to crimp it down about an 1/8". I still only have about a 1/16" of clearance. Then, the drain tube didn't line up with the tube on the block, so I had to cut the drain tube back and order 7/8" ID hose from CPP to make it line up right. That special 7/8" ID oil resistant hose is impossible to find locally and isn't cheap...

  

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What mods have you done to the engine? Injectors, programmer(s)? 

By switching from a 58/60/14 to a 57/65/14 you have decreased the compressor wheel size while increasing the turbine wheel size. What that means is that it will spool faster, have less drive pressure, (lower EGT) but  will make less power.

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If all you changed was the turbo and didn't mess with the fueling I am not sure what you were expecting. A drop in EGT's means you have increased your airflow for the same fuel and that is the improvement you should expect with a turbo change. Turbo's don't make power they simply effect the amount of fuel you can run. You may know that but you would be surprised how many people don't. 

Without seeing the compressor maps it will be impossible to look at total power potential changes. It is possible the smaller compressor wheel can outflow the bigger one but who knows. 

Just looking at the specs the Super B should spool a little slow with the larger turbine wheel and same turbine size, as well as both being journal bearings. You can increase spool with turbine size by going to a BB turbo but generally speaking the larger the turbine wheel the slower the low rpm spool. At upper rpms the larger turbine should spool faster but generally we are looking for spool at lower rpms (assuming the smaller turbine wheel wasn't excessively undersized). 

Edited by AH64ID
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Larger turbine has more weight, rotational mass, and requires more airflow to spin so longer spool time.

 

Smaller turbine wheel builds more pressure VIA input CFM  of exhaust so it will spool faster,  but will not be able to flow as much on the top end.  

 

so a 12 cm exhaust turbine will spool faster than a 14cm exhaust turbine if the rest of the turbo is the same.

 

Same weight principles apply to the compressor wheel.  

Edited by Me78569
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2 hours ago, The_Hammer said:

I thought a larger turbine wheel spooled quicker with less drive pressure and a larger compressor wheel spooled slower but provided more flow? 

Exact opposite :)

Large wheel: Slow spool, high flow.

Small wheel: Fast spool, less flow.

You also have to take into account the housing A/R to know how spool up is affected.

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The 57mm borg warner extended tip is supposed flow as much or more than a holset hx40 (60mm). I was expecting the seat of the pants feeling and flow that my old setup had with the 60mm wheel and cover. Still testing the super b, but it definitely dropped egts and is more efficient than the wh1c. There is always the possibility down the road to upgrade to the 62mm wheel and cover :) Cummins still pulls like a champ!  

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I think the seat of the pants feel you are looking for needs a smarty. Especially with your trans, the 100hp injectors, and the new (and great) turbo.  Not a HULK SMASH top end tuner, but it will give the turbo the fuel to spin up quickly with or without smoke, and give you that off the line push.  

I love my smarty.  

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On November 28, 2015 at 11:32:49 AM, Dynamic said:

I have 100hp injectors and a Smarty as well. Love the combo. I have an HX35 turbo, though,and it can get hot if I'm towing and don't watch the EGT's.

Well....... Time to ante' up and push that trans you built a little more ;)

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On 11/29/2015, 5:40:43, JOHNFAK said:

Well....... Time to ante' up and push that trans you built a little more ;)

Yeah, no kidding! I'm not worried about the transmission, but the HX35 is hating my guts if I don't back off a bit, which kind of defeats the purpose of adding the mods in the first place!

I'll be installing an Edge Juice with the new CTS2 screen soon. I'm going to be developing and testing some transmission cooling products in the next few months, so the digital transmission temperature readout will make it nice to quantify test results a bit better. But, adding even more power will not help my turbo situation at all...! I may have to spend a little more effort on the twins I was planning...

Edited by Dynamic
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