UDC tuning for vp trucks!!??

[Me78569]

I need to compare their tables to the one that Ed and Jdongui Put names too.

Some interesting things I have found so far.

 

 

All the ecm tuning is done on the 0-1023 scale, but they convert ALL fueling commands sent to the VP are on the serial command structure of 0-255.  

 

Mike, 

 

That means my theory was right on why the Map sensor questions are * 4

[TFaoro]

30 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

 

Figured, I am talking programmers. 

 

Modules have mostly disappeared on the newer stuff with all the ECM options available and how much more reliable they are than modules. I hope that the VP crowd can do the same thing!! It really is a much better tuning experience. 

You are 100% correct! As you know, I tuned my brother's 05 with UDC. The capabilities are impressive, and the smallest changes are what makes the truck so street friendly while laying gobs of power down when your foot is in it.

If I have to I'll switch back to smarty tuning with a TST as a wiretap. I would really prefer one programmer/module though.

18 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Everything starts somewhere. This has more custom options that UDC did when it first came out. 

I can't wait to get home and take a look  

[Me78569]

Unless they somehow got someone at Bosch to open up, the psg is always going to limit fueling commands.  No way around that without "unlocking" the vp44 PSG.  so if you want more than 65 hp from tuning you will need a wiretap.  

 

Ed was going to remove the psg and control it's functions also before he went away.  The ECM and PSG really do pretty much the same thing, but the PSG is what makes the final commands for fueling.  Our trucks are a HUGE mess of tangled interfaces and proprietary protocols to make things work,.

[TFaoro]

47 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Unless they somehow got someone at Bosch to open up, the psg is always going to limit fueling commands.  No way around that without "unlocking" the vp44 PSG.  so if you want more than 65 hp from tuning you will need a wiretap.  

 

Ed was going to remove the psg and control it's functions also before he went away.  The ECM and PSG really do pretty much the same thing, but the PSG is what makes the final commands for fueling.  Our trucks are a HUGE mess of tangled interfaces and proprietary protocols to make things work,.

Interesting. The smarty makes good power for me...heck right about 50psi of boost matted so that's plenty of power to tow with. Sometimes you just need that little extra ;)

[Me78569]

Mike,

 

So do you wanna have the lift pump run for 5 minutes after shutdown?  This is possible with smarty pro.  I am starting to drool....I might have to sell my truck to get my wife to ok buying this though lolol

Edited June 9, 2016 by Me78569

[Dieselfuture]

I don't think you'll get much cooling as the vp needs to turn also to get more flow returned, from what I heard if it's off then it's very little flow through the vp. It may still help though. 

[Me78569]

A pretty good amount still flows, but you are missing the big picture here.  The ecm is opened up for us.

[AH64ID]

With reverse engineering in mind they may not have to deal with Bosch. It won't be an easy task but I wouldn't discount it yet. 

 

While it would be nice to do everything with one programmer or module I personally would run UDC with a fuel only box. Set all the ECM characteristics how you want them and then add only fuel as needed. The base tune and operation of the truck will be much better than anything else out there...if properly tuned. 

[Me78569]

They absolutely have to deal with Bosch still.  The PSG on the vp44 is what controls fueling.  The ecm simply asks for a desired torque / hp amount and the PSG decides what to do with it from there.  The ECM does not directly control the vp44 in anyway shape or form.   In order to truly fuel beyond 65 hp you would have to hack the psg not the ecm.

 

If we though the ecm was a black box, just wait until you try and look at the PSG.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Me78569

[AH64ID]

Is the PSG solid state or does it operate like the ECM?

 

If it operates like a ECM and can be programmed then working directly with Bosch is likely no required (as I understand your work with Bosch comment). If it cannot be programmed then all bets are off. 

 

But hacking a PSG shouldn't be any different, fundamentally, than hacking a ECM. The ECMs have been hacked without Bosch's assistance so, IMHO, a PSG shouldn't requrie Bosch's assistance either. 

 

It all depends on the capabilities of the PSG and what interface may be available. I have no clue in this respect. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by AH64ID

[Me78569]

eeprom with write encryption. 

[AH64ID]

1 minute ago, Me78569 said:

eeprom with write encryption. 

 

So it can be programmed. 

 

Based on what we have seen over the last 10 years in diesel tuning I bet it can be done without Bosch giving away the golden key. Time will tell. 

 

It reminds me of the 09+ ECM's that were designed to not be flashed with a programmer. They weren't un-tuneable very long. 

[Me78569]

we can hope

[AH64ID]

Yes we can. 

 

I am still amazed at how little timing there is on the VP44. Seems too low to work well.

[CSM]

its kinda retarded.

[Me78569]

34 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Yes we can. 

 

I am still amazed at how little timing there is on the VP44. Seems too low to work well.

Well I know that timing is altered based upon a number of different tables.  Timing is upwards of 20 at different points depending on the condition.

 

read through the atttached document to see what was found.

Project log.docx

[Mopar1973Man]

According to Quadzilla stock programming it can already access full advancement. It just a matter of when... According to the information they provided me if you call for advancement too fast it will cause the VP44 to ignore the value. Hence part of the 65 HP limit. 

 

As for flashing the PSG unit it can be done on a Bosch 815 test stand but it take 3 hours of testing to produce the information for flashing.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

I think there is more to it than just flashing with a 815.  If that was the case, wouldn't rebuilders all offer a "hot" pump?

[TFaoro]

I downloaded and looked into this last night... I think I have my brother convinced to cough up some money for the PRO dongle and I'll pay for half. I can then use his touch to program both of our trucks.  Blowing $$$$$$ like it's going out of style!

Anyway, that link @Me78569 posted helps explain the tables in the UDC much better than anything in the UDC program. I'd like to take a crack at it and see how smooth and clean I can make my truck run with these big injectors.

 

14 hours ago, CSM said:

its kinda retarded.

I see what you did there

[AH64ID]

I don't think you can be VIN locked to more than one VIN at a time.