NV5600 Fluid, Fast Coolers, Filter

[Dieselfuture]

With all of the problems people been having lately with trannys, at least some I'm sure, I decided to not wait any longer and ordered some coolers and filter kit for my transmission. Currently I run 7 qts of Amsoil synchromesh (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-synchromesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/?code=MTFQT-EA) for about 4 years and 20k ml now. Heard different opinions on how much to overfill, some say at least a qt some say 8-9 qts. This has probably been beaten to deaf by now, but also some time has gone by, so hoping for some input from guys that use Fast coolers (http://www.genosgarage.com/product/fc-6-spd-dg/transmission-coolers) on one side and filter kit (http://www.quad4x4.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi) on the other, or just fast coolers on NV5600, but feel free to post results on NV4500 or anything you put coolers on. But my questions will be directed at NV5600.

Questions are:

How many extra qts of fluid do you run,

What brand of oil, pros cons

Do you have coolers or a filter or both,

How often do you change your fluid, why,

If you have a filter kit on one side which side do you think would be best for it. Meaning will it work on both sides or does oil fly one way better then the other, I've also heard guys running filter kit mounted on top of fast cooler not sure if there is much room that way. I have 5" exhaust, 

If there are other good ideas I'd like to hear them please. What I'm planning on doing is putting filter kit on the exhaust side and cooler on the driver side and thinking about running 8qts. People say that fill hole on NV5600 is too low so 1qt overfill is needed, I can see a way to have it overfilled by 1 qt with fast cooler and filter kit wold be fill it till oil comes out of fill hole, then put another qt in, but it still might not be as high because filter and cooler will have to be filed together with tranny. What do you guys think. 

[Hawkez]

I use the same oil that you do and I don't have coolers or a filter.  The FAST coolers to interest me, but I don't have anything yet. I overfilled mine with an extra quart.  I filled it from the top.  For me, a temp gauge would be of more value than a filter.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm going to do the study work for the coolers now. As for my normal daily driving I'm hard pressed to get 140*F. That not even needing a cooler. Now I'll find out more during some RV and utility trailer towing. The only reason I don't way the fast coolers is because of the winter time temperatures. I don't what to have to keep swapping the coolers off and on just to get the fluid warmed up enough in the winter time. So consider you overall weather conditions and temperatures.

 

16 minutes ago, Hawkez said:

For me, a temp gauge would be of more value than a filter.

 

Agreed. Now that I switch fluids and being what I'm using is cheaper that the original fluid I will be more prone to changing the fluid more often. Even with 261k miles on the truck I didn't have any debris even when the transmission did fail. So the idea of a filter isn't needed really. Now I'm experimenting with non-standard fluids I'm going to watch and see behavior of the transmission and temperatures. But so far it runs really really cool most times here in the mountain just empty driving. So far I've not seen a reason for the coolers as of yet.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[AH64ID]

I run the Amsoil Syncromesh and FAST coolers on both sides. I'm a big filter guy but I think the cooling and extra fluid are better than the filter. The filter just looks hoakey. 

 

I run 7 qts. I ran 9 qts at one time but the trans was a little noiser. 

 

I change my my fluid every 50K. 

 

 

 

Michael, I honestly don't think your readings are accurate. You would have to be overfilled by at least a quart, if not more, for your sender location to be accurate. IMHO. 

[dripley]

I have the coolers on my 6 speed. I am running Penzoil synchromesh. I filled it to the filler and then parked on slope and stuck one more quart in. Not sure what the total was. I do no regular changes due to the owners manual just said to keep it full. I lost 4th gear out of my oe trans. I still have it and dont know what happened. Not even going to attempt to take that beast apart. Bought one from a junkyard with supposedly 52k on it out of an 02. I have put about 125k on it since and this is the one I put the coolers on. I changed the fluid in it about 35k ago when I pulled it to replace a failed throw out bearing. The fluid was alittle darker than new and was pretty darn clean. I also installed a temp gauge with the probe in the fass cooler. It is on the exhaust side so not sure how much that is affecting the temp.

 

Normal cruising empty on the interstate I stay in the 155* to 160* range depending on how hilly it is, around 80* ambient temp. When it gets up in the 90's I'll see maybe 170 to 75. All of this with the comp set on 5X3

Pulling the trailer,15k# fifth wheel, I see up around 200*. That is running 65mph in 6th gear, comp on 2X3. I have towed in 6th the whole time I have owned the vehicle. On a hot day I have seen the temps hit right at 220*  and if the road gets hilly enough I will drop into 5th and run about 60. That will get back down around 205*.

 

I have considered wrapping the exhaust pipe or putting some form of heat shield to see what difference it would make but that is in the future. Also i have only been running the temp gauge for about a year and I have not been logging any data on it. This is my recollection of what I have been seeing on it.

[Hawkez]

I think my next fluid change I may go with a similar set up as you Dripley.

[Dieselfuture]

Reason I think filter is a good idea, is that all them tiny particles that keep on going through the beatings and gears will just create more wear with time. So I'm hoping filter caches most of them and tranny and fluid will last longer. Almost like oil bypass filter taking small particles out of engine oil. It has to be better one way or another from not having cooler or filter this whole time. I do agree with Mike on colder temps, my tranny doesn't like shifting when coold, but I don't drive it in the winter that much anyway. 

[AH64ID]

I have my exhaust pipe wrapped but I have no idea how much it helped.

 

As far as the filter there just isn't much a non pressurized filter can do, unlike a pressurized bypass filter. I run 2 oil filters, 3 fuel filters, and a coolant filter on my truck... so I am not opposed to added filtration :-)

[dripley]

4 hours ago, Hawkez said:

I think my next fluid change I may go with a similar set up as you Dripley.

There is one thing I might have done different. The fass coolers come tapped in one corner so I put one up on one side and one down on the other. I think I would have taken one of them and put another tap on it myself and had the fill hole and the temp sensor on the the drivers side. Might not have made much difference because the fill hole is in a crappy place either side I believe.

 

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

I have my exhaust pipe wrapped but I have no idea how much it helped.

 

As far as the filter there just isn't much a non pressurized filter can do, unlike a pressurized bypass filter. I run 2 oil filters, 3 fuel filters, and a coolant filter on my truck... so I am not opposed to added filtration :-)

I dont have any numbers before I put the coolers on to compare and see what difference they did make. Thats the only reason I would want to wrap or put a heat shield on the exhaust just to see what difference it does make. Just hate to spend the time and money to find out it only drops the temps by a couple few degrees. If it dropped ten or more might be worth.

 

Speaking of the temps, what would be to high of temp to see? I did a little research and never found any thing on the Syncromesh that told me how hot was to hot for the fluid. Does Amsoil publish a temp that is a line not to cross?

[Dieselfuture]

Says here -40 to 300 https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf

I would think wrapping exhaust would matter more in town or slow driving, but on hwy wind will be under truck cooling things off maybe not. Once I will put cooler on driver side and filter on passenger side, then put my temp sensor in there for a while a year or so, then I'll wrap exhaust and see if it makes a difference. Unless I'll come up with more money to waist I might do it sooner.  

[AH64ID]

3 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

 

I would think wrapping exhaust would matter more in town or slow driving, but on hwy wind will be under truck cooling things off maybe not. 

 

I agree. I wrapped mine for all the slow heavy driving I do climbing hills on forest service roads. It's not uncommon for me to see 800-1100° EGTs at 25 mph or slower. 

 

Between the low airflow, hot exhaust, and hot engine air I wanted to help the trans as much as possible. 

[98whitelightnin]

I had fast coolers on my 98, can't remember temps but never saw them get hot by any means. I believe I ran 7 qts of fluid from dodge and blue menthal.

[Dieselfuture]

So what do you guys think on which side would be best for a cooler? Which direction do you think oil is flying inside the tranny?

[AH64ID]

If you're only doing one side do the driver side. 

[Dieselfuture]

9 hours ago, AH64ID said:

If you're only doing one side do the driver side. 

That's what I'm thinking too, that way it won't be soaking heat from the exhaust,  and I'll put the filter on the exhaust side. I'm also thinking about using the other cooler on my tcase, why having it just laing around. 

When I spoke with a guy from Geno's I told him that maybe they should offer a kit that comes with a filter and a cooler, and pointed him to quad4x4 site for filter kit as he didn't know where he can get them. 

[AH64ID]

That explains why I had thought the kit was discontinued, and thought I recalled people removing them since the servicing kits were unavailable. I wonder if quad has a supplier or is limited to stock on hand. 

 

How do you plan to get the cooler onto the tcase?

[Cowboy]

I've considered a tranny filter, but like AD64ID said I don't know how much a non-pressurized system will work.  I've considered a couple different designs, one with a remote filter and pump, then shoot the oil back in at whichever gear is known to fail.  But feel that the risk of leaks outway the benefit of filtering.

 

I have also considered putting a port on the top of the tranny that oil gets flinged into, and then filter that before getting returned to the bottom of the tranny, so you'd have maybe .4 psi of head pressure...  Still on the fence on that one.

 

I'm also curious how much pressure the countershaft gears make if you had a port strategically in the passenger's side PTO cover.

 

Reason for the filtering for me is because the transmission I would install it on lost a couple gears and sent tooth fragments everywhere.  I've currently got it apart on the bench replacing parts and flushing everything out, but I'd really like a second line of defence to catch anything I miss while doing this flush.  I also wouldn't mind filtering out the synchro material.  

 

Also, the 241DHD has a PTO cover  

Edited May 14, 2016 by Cowboy

[AH64ID]

If you're going to filter it then add a pump and a may as well as a cooler too, otherwise it's a mute point IMHO. 

 

The pump with a filter/cooler has always intrigued me but I still don't think it's necessary. I am not even sure it would work with a failed gear anyhow. By the time all the teeth fragments got to the filter it would likely be too late. 

 

Didn't realize the 241DHD had a PTO port, pretty cool. 

[Cowboy]

Sorry I worded that poorly, I meant for the filter to filter out any particles from the last implosion, the one I'm cleaning up after currently.  

 

I may end up going the pump/filter/cooler route, not sure.  If I do I would like to shoot the oil back in from the top of the tranny to help keep everything oiled.

 

Also, I don't know how much difference this makes, but I like to paint my transmissions black for maximum heat radiation.

 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Cowboy

[AH64ID]

Gotcha!!

 

I think the fill port would be an easy enough spot to return fluid to, and I would pull from the bottom port in the FAST cooler. The flow doesn't have to be high, nor does the pressure.